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monicajae
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:22 am    Post subject: install manuals Reply with quote

To whom it may concern:

So, when are we going to get updated manuals to reflect current cpus? and uefi/efi bios'? i'm editing my make.conf and it's listing i486 processor examples?! c'mon seriously... it's 2013... those manuals are from like 10+ years ago. They are considered ancient, don't you think? one really shouldn't have to work at finding use flags to describe my i5 processor... or newer pentium/intel processors with which to begin! i mean, how many people really have i386 machines anymore??!!! 1? 2? you know what? i volunteer. just give me the correct variables, and i will edit it no problem. it's just fucking ridiculous.
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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ill be 1st to second that! quick instal x86 only, phooey!
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monicajae
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

666threesixes666 wrote:
ill be 1st to second that! quick instal x86 only, phooey!


Oh the horror!
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iamben
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: install manuals Reply with quote

monicajae wrote:
To whom it may concern:

So, when are we going to get updated manuals to reflect current cpus? and uefi/efi bios'? i'm editing my make.conf and it's listing i486 processor examples?! c'mon seriously... it's 2013... those manuals are from like 10+ years ago. They are considered ancient, don't you think? one really shouldn't have to work at finding use flags to describe my i5 processor... or newer pentium/intel processors with which to begin! i mean, how many people really have i386 machines anymore??!!! 1? 2? you know what? i volunteer. just give me the correct variables, and i will edit it no problem. it's just fucking ridiculous.
Hey let's keep it civil! Are you using the amd64 handbook and stage3? These do use more modern settings, but there is room for improvement still. The CFLAGS section hasn't really seen any updates since -march=native became available and (imho) preferred.

If you'd like to help with writing documentation patches, you can find the sources here: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo/xml/htdocs/ and you can open bugs on bugs.gentoo.org with your proposed changes.
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: install manuals Reply with quote

iamben wrote:
monicajae wrote:
To whom it may concern:

So, when are we going to get updated manuals to reflect current cpus? and uefi/efi bios'? i'm editing my make.conf and it's listing i486 processor examples?! c'mon seriously... it's 2013... those manuals are from like 10+ years ago. They are considered ancient, don't you think? one really shouldn't have to work at finding use flags to describe my i5 processor... or newer pentium/intel processors with which to begin! i mean, how many people really have i386 machines anymore??!!! 1? 2? you know what? i volunteer. just give me the correct variables, and i will edit it no problem. it's just fucking ridiculous.
Hey let's keep it civil! Are you using the amd64 handbook and stage3? These do use more modern settings, but there is room for improvement still. The CFLAGS section hasn't really seen any updates since -march=native became available and (imho) preferred.

If you'd like to help with writing documentation patches, you can find the sources here: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo/xml/htdocs/ and you can open bugs on bugs.gentoo.org with your proposed changes.


That raises a question from me; is there any reason not to set -march=native?
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are very few. One is if you're using the machine as a distcc host. Then you want the CFLAGS set to the minimum common denominator of all the build targets.

- John
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Last edited by John R. Graham on Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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iamben
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some VM types also misreport the available cpu features when running gentoo as a guest-- for example they may advertise ssse3 as available, but that instruction set isn't actually valid within the VM, causing "invalid instruction" errors. And there is the occasional odd bug where gcc doesn't detect quite right, usually only with brand new cpu families and older gcc, though.

Things change so quickly with gcc and cpus, it's hard to write a cflags guide that's at all future-proof. And in the grand scheme of all things gentoo, CFLAGS tweaking is just not that critical. It's much better to lean toward the conservative side, as the handbook currently does.

That said, I'd love a paragraph in the handbook mentioning -march=native.
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swathe
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would to see an update too. Sadly I know nowhere near enough to get my hands in and do some documentation but would appreciate anyone effort who can do it. Prepared to chuck in $10 via paypal or whatever to help fund a handbook overhaul
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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"post a bug report" pshhh its so much information, instead unlocking editing of the doc to wiki and reverse importing would be in order once it is up to par.
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham wrote:
There are very few. One is if you're using the machine as a distcc host. Then you want the CFLAGS set to the minimum common denominator of all the build targets.

- John


Sorry I word that question [im]properly (I blame beer), what I really want to know is are there advantages/disadvantages to setting march to for example core2 rather than native?
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iamben
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrbassie wrote:
John R. Graham wrote:
There are very few. One is if you're using the machine as a distcc host. Then you want the CFLAGS set to the minimum common denominator of all the build targets.

- John


Sorry I word that question [im]properly (I blame beer), what I really want to know is are there advantages/disadvantages to setting march to for example core2 rather than native?
Sometimes your cpu supports some extra minor instructions above the nearest specific -march setting, native will enable those. native will also specify some minor things like cache size (which only affects the build time, not the resulting binary). It will also automatically enable any new optimizations or more specific -march settings as they become available in newer gcc, without further manual tweaking. Those are the advantages of native, which I can think of.
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks :D
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