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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I took a chunk out of my SSD's life trying to compile I believe it was webkit or qt. I only had 3 processes going on this dual core (-j3) with 2GB RAM, and it was swapping quite a bit though it was kind of hard to notice since it swaps fairly quickly.

The SSD is now probably getting close to a decade old, and I just hit... 1% lifetime usage (it's now about 30 erase cycles on the MLC). Portage_tmpdir is on the SSD as well. That last huge batch update I did on this SSD took around ~2 erase cycles to complete, and the swapping was a good chunk of it... and having to restart broken merges kills...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's why i have -gk in make.conf on my netbook
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My solution to this problem is building in NFS chroot. Puts minimal load to the hardware, except the NIC. No 32 bit here.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's interesting.. i wonder if you can cross compile arm in nfs chroot from intel
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually build memory use isn't the problem, the fact that build memory use is high, all other operations on that computer like running Firefox, etc., is also high, and performance will suffer likewise.

However if you still do not completely use up all your RAM, then maybe things are okay. I just felt that amd64 2GB machine even when not compiling seemed to use up all RAM well before my x86 machine did with 2GB RAM.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

one of the reasons i still continue with 32bit on all my systems
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO Gentoo is not happy in 2 GiB no matter what. I think that anything under 4 and you want to have a compiler farm with bigger hardware somewhere on your network.

I have successfully installed Gentoo on a Raspberry Pi B+ without the compiler farm, but when I was done I pretty much trashed it as it would be a full-time job just to do updates on it.
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried chrooting into my nfs mounted Atom from my i7...

When I tried running 'emerge' I got greeted with:
Code:
/tmp # chroot /mnt0
/ # emerge
Illegal instruction (core dumped)
/ # exit

No idea where it dumped core...

I still sort of update a 1GB P-m, it's still tolerable but swaps quite a bit. Less than 1GB I don't even try.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm running Gentoo with 64bit kernel + userspace on an Acer Aspire One D255 (Atom N550 1.5GHz dualcore + HT with max 2GB Ram). And it works!

The only problematic package, in case of ram, is chromium. It didn't respect -jn and ran with at least 8 threads, if I remember correctly. Maybe one can override it... I didn't dig into this as I use firefox, which compiles just fine.

My make.conf uses march=native -O2 pipe and -j2! Running updates over night is not a problem as long as you don't try to experiment with LTO.

The only bin package I'm using is LibreOffice, but thats a question of CPU performance...

I don't think -Os helps, neither compiling nor running programs, but I never checked that. Of course, it reduces the instruction memory footprint, but has no influence on data, so the overall gain will be negligible.
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Atom 32 bit with 2GB RAM is still chugging away at updates. It was compiling rust when I looked at it last night, and is STILL compiling rust this morning...
Code:
atom /tmp # uname -a
Linux atom 4.9.95-gentoo #1 SMP Mon Jun 18 21:51:25 MDT 2018 i686 Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N270 @ 1.60GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
atom /tmp # qlop -c
 * dev-lang/rust-1.29.1
     started: Sat Oct 13 20:34:01 2018
     elapsed: 12 hours, 53 minutes, 11 seconds

CPU limited not RAM limited I think, though I don't quite get how rustc allocates memory. It appears to be multithreaded but once I caught it pretty much using all RAM but didn't touch swap.

I did notice rustc use more than 2 threads on my quad core machines, so it must have some internal thread usage limitation. The current rustc execution has a resident size of 1.2GB, though I saw 1.5GB last night.

I switched over to swapping onto a USB HDD just in case, but current swap usage is 0.
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cord
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How long dev-qt/qtwebkit compilation took?
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have qtwebkit or webkit-gtk installed on this machine, plus sometimes I have distcc working and sometimes not, so hard to tell which merges were done under what circumstances.

Also not sure why I have a few entries with really short merge times, but this one is probably accurate:

rust: Sat Oct 13 20:27:49 2018: 57930 seconds

Gcc is bad too, this is 7.3:
gcc: Sat Oct 13 09:19:24 2018: 27702 seconds

32-bit -- so far, neither package swaps while building using MAKEOPTS=-j2 (since this Atom is a dual thread machine.) on 2GB.

The 64-bit setup seems more swappy with the same amount of RAM. Alas overall speed is faster for the 64-bit because that's a Core2 Duo which is many times faster than the dual thread single core Atom.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cord:
As for hardware RAM limitations - i suggest to try other RAM, better of same manufacturer, same as soldered on your mb. Mostly this "limitations" is only in specifications.

Also you can try https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Distcc to speedup compilation, if you have other machines on your network.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eccerr0r wrote:
The 64-bit setup seems more swappy with the same amount of RAM.


You're right, measuring absolute numbers, but the difference is negligible. I started with a 32 bit System, but soon made the step to 64 bit, because the extra Ram usage is much less than often communicated. Using a lightweight DE and activating only necessary services, plugins, ... is important.

cord wrote:
How long dev-qt/qtwebkit compilation took?


You can't compare that to your system. eccerr0rs system has one physical core, mine has two (as yours has), but both have much less IPC than your C2D. So if swapping doesn't occur, you're compile times will be seriously faster than ours.
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, portage/"emerge" uses ~500MB of RAM on an amd64 box I'm updating right now (2GB RAM) ... a quarter of its RAM is used by portage for emerge!

I suspect I'm not comparing apples with apples, but a 32-bit install I'm maintaining, emerge used up about 252MB of RAM. The difference: the 32-bit install (1GB RAM...) has an xfce4 setup, other 64-bit has full GNOME setup too; both have firefox-60 and its dependencies.

Anyone see similar memory use? No wonder the 2GB amd64 machine is running fairly crappy when doing updates.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eccerr0r wrote:
BTW, portage/"emerge" uses ~500MB of RAM on an amd64 box I'm updating right now (2GB RAM) ... a quarter of its RAM is used by portage for emerge!

Is there difference between "emerge --sync" / "emerge-webrsync"?
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those don't make portage use much memory. Anyway --sync could be using rsync or git I believe, webrsync is rsync. Both use an external program to do the sync and isn't really using portage.

Doing the dependency calculations unfortunately is serialized with doing the actual make compilation, unlike doing a sync which does not need to be (and should not be) running while computing dependencies...
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cord wrote:
eccerr0r wrote:
BTW, portage/"emerge" uses ~500MB of RAM on an amd64 box I'm updating right now (2GB RAM) ... a quarter of its RAM is used by portage for emerge!

Is there difference between "emerge --sync" / "emerge-webrsync"?


Just time, webrsync downloads portage as a tarball instead of individual packages, then unpacks them. May be some memory difference but I doubt much.
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cord
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It needs 500 MiB RAM to unpack 50 MiB archive?
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No... again, 500MB to compute dependencies. When doing a sync, dependencies are not computed - heck, portage doesn't even load the ebuilds to compute anything...
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For curiosity sake, dev-lang/rust of the few runs I tried took:

Atom 1.6GHz dual thread, 32-bit: 16 hours (std dev less than 5 mins)
Pentium-M 1.6GHz single thread, 32-bit: 7 hours (std dev is on the order of an hour, so I have to get more accurate data...)

I have to use rust as a gauge because rust does not distribute, so I know it's not cheating :)

Anyway, I didn't expect this kind of discrepancy, thought the two processors were closer together in terms of speed. Alas the Atom is not affected by meltdown or other CPU security issues...

I will need to do some testing of 32- vs 64- bit. The only data I have right now is flawed:
32 bit QEMU KVM using 2 cores on Core2Quad 9550S: just under 3 hours
64bit baremetal using 4 cores on Core2Quad 9550S: just over 1 hour.

If I extrapolate the 32-bit number, it would be under 1.5 hours in 32 bit. That would mean that QEMU is quite slow adding 50% time penalty or 33% speed penalty... Of course this has no bearing on 32- vs 64- on baremetal.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eccerr0r wrote:
Atom 1.6GHz dual thread, 32-bit: 16 hours (std dev less than 5 mins)
Pentium-M 1.6GHz single thread, 32-bit: 7 hours (std dev is on the order of an hour, so I have to get more accurate data...).

That's interesting, what exact processors are those? I have a notebook and a 2-in-1 with a Pentium M 770 (2.33GHz, single core) and an Atom Z3735F (1.33GHz, quad-core), both have Gentoo with all the installed packages and the kernel compiled using GCC's native optimizations. I have yet to do any scientific testing but the Atom seems to be (less than) half the speed of the Pentium M (~20 mins vs 1 hr compiling glibc) and I'm wondering why that is. If the Atoms deal with instructions differently, shouldn't the compiler optimize for that, making them not suck as much? The Pentium is simple, it's just a more power-efficient PIII, no change in how it executes instructions as far as I know, but the Atom family may have a more esoteric set-up (I know the rest of the device does, I haven't managed to get audio working on it after almost a year :roll:).
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcih wrote:
eccerr0r wrote:
Atom 1.6GHz dual thread, 32-bit: 16 hours (std dev less than 5 mins)
Pentium-M 1.6GHz single thread, 32-bit: 7 hours (std dev is on the order of an hour, so I have to get more accurate data...).

That's interesting, what exact processors are those? I have a notebook and a 2-in-1 with a Pentium M 770 (2.33GHz, single core) and an Atom Z3735F (1.33GHz, quad-core), both have Gentoo with all the installed packages and the kernel compiled using GCC's native optimizations. I have yet to do any scientific testing but the Atom seems to be (less than) half the speed of the Pentium M (~20 mins vs 1 hr compiling glibc) and I'm wondering why that is. If the Atoms deal with instructions differently, shouldn't the compiler optimize for that, making them not suck as much? The Pentium is simple, it's just a more power-efficient PIII, no change in how it executes instructions as far as I know, but the Atom family may have a more esoteric set-up (I know the rest of the device does, I haven't managed to get audio working on it after almost a year :roll:).


I have a c2758 based board running Gentoo. It also sucks pretty bad for compile times compared to my i7 920, but for encryption/compression/networking tasks it goes neck and neck with the i7. The atom has extra hardware for acceleration of encryption and compression, and the board was designed as a network device with 7x Intel nics. So I suspect that this atom from eccerr0r also has some sort of extra on-chip hardware that makes some things faster, but not compilation.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The atom is an old n270 single core dual thread, the Pentium-M is just a Dothan 1.6GHz.

I also suspect that the "rust" workload is really not what an atom is designed for. I haven't had a definitive distcc-less gcc run to compare but I suspect gcc also isn't quite a "normal" workload.

On the other hand firefox itself seems about the same or maybe a tad worse on the Pentium-M and the Atom. But I haven't run a true benchmark on them to compare, but I would think that a browser should be in the intended workloads of the Atom...
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