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lordalbert
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Could hard disk damage slow the system? Reply with quote

Hi.
Some day ago i was using gentoo on my old desktop, and that day it was slow to startup and run all program that start at the openinf of kde (kmix, battery and network monitor, kipboard, etc...).
I used it for few hours, but i noticed it is slow... so i saved my work on a flash drive and reboot the system.
At booting time, it checked the disk because it found some errors.... after 40minutes of checking, boot the system without kdm. So i reboot again, than it start kdm and kde, but opening kde's menu take 15minutes. Just click on K and wait to open the menu... 15 minutes!!
So i shutdown system and run a clonezilla live. I made a completly backup, and ran startctl to check the healt of disk. It return "passed" message.

Could it be an hard disk problem? Also if smartctl return "passed" ?
Could it be another problem? What?

I wait to buy another HD. I thinked to erase disk with dd if=/dev/zero and than re-make fs (ext4). And also to restore the copy of the system, made with clonezilla.

Any idea?

Thank you!
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lordalbert,

Yes, HDD damage will cause slowdowns but not of the magnitude you report.

There are two mechanisims. The first is that the disk needs to do retries to read data. If this happens, the drive will move the data to a spare physical sector, but he retries take extra pevolutions of the drive platter.
In extreme cases. The drive may recalibrate the head, which involves moving the head several tracks away from the data.
The system may also reset the SATA interface. That will generate entries in dmesg.

Relocated sectors cause a slowdown are they are rarely on the same track as the unreadable sector, so there is extra latency incerred in reading them.

if you suspoct drive problems, install smartmantools and read the drives internal error log.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard drive problems will definitely slow down the system performance. When the drive encounters errors trying to read a sector, it will repeatedly try to read before either getting a good read or declaring an error. If you see the hard drive light flashing like a heartbeat, this is probably happening.

Note the error can also be caused by a bad or loose cable connection between the controller and the drive
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok... so I'll install smartmontools and read the error messages... So i could understand if there's some problem...
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDE: every error means at least 30 seconds of lost time.
SATA: every error means a couple of seconds of lost time.

this is also one reason why you should use an ide-usb adapter to read out damaged IDE disks - the error timeouts are much shorter.

So if you have a bunch of damaged sectors and the system is running into them, you can easily loose HOURS of time waiting for the timeouts&error handling. Not so much with sata - there is in the rage of minutes, but if you have still some IDE disk around... it is hell.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is an error message (show in gsmartcontrol, a gui of smartmontools):

Quote:

Complete error log:

SMART Error Log Version: 1
ATA Error Count: 1
CR = Command Register [HEX]
FR = Features Register [HEX]
SC = Sector Count Register [HEX]
SN = Sector Number Register [HEX]
CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX]
CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX]
DH = Device/Head Register [HEX]
DC = Device Command Register [HEX]
ER = Error register [HEX]
ST = Status register [HEX]
Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as
DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes,
SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days.

Error 1 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 13423 hours (559 days + 7 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
08 51 00 00 00 00 00 Error:

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
3f 00 01 ff ff ff ef 00 00:00:08.345 WRITE LOG EXT
2f 00 01 ff ff ff ef 00 00:00:08.340 READ LOG EXT
3f 00 01 ff ff ff ef 00 00:00:08.338 WRITE LOG EXT
2f 00 02 ff ff ff ef 00 00:00:08.335 READ LOG EXT
3f 00 01 ff ff ff ef 00 00:00:08.334 WRITE LOG EXT


i'm not able to understand the message. I don't understand the type of error. Pheraps the lifetime value is too high?

This is also an another screenshot. I think is time to change my hard disk.. :(

http://s30.postimg.org/xyr98gpe9/Screenshot.png
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lordalbert,

In your screenshot a value is failed when its less that or equal to threashhold.
By that measure your drive in OK.

The reallocated sector count being non zero is not a cause for concern.
The pending sector count is zero, which is a good sign. The drive does not know about any unreadable sectors.

Change your SATA data cable and try it for a few days.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if that values are in the normal-range... why it return "pre-failure" type message? 8O
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they don't.

That colums says 'if this goes out of hand, it is a sign that your harddrive will fail soon'.

Also please post smartctl - a /dev/sdX and not some gui screenshot.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

smartctl -a /dev/sda wrote:

smartctl 6.2 2013-07-26

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11
Device Model: ST3500320AS
Serial Number: 9QM1STG7
LU WWN Device Id: 5 000c50 00b8116bd
Firmware Version: SD1A
User Capacity: 500.107.862.016 bytes [500 GB]
Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical
Rotation Rate: 7200 rpm
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: ATA8-ACS T13/1699-D revision 4
SATA Version is: SATA 2.6, 3.0 Gb/s
Local Time is: Tue Sep 23 10:14:38 2014 CEST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x82) Offline data collection activity
was completed without error.
Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed
without error or no self-test has ever
been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: ( 625) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
Conveyance Self-test supported.
Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 1) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 114) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
SCT capabilities: (0x103b) SCT Status supported.
SCT Error Recovery Control supported.
SCT Feature Control supported.
SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 115 099 006 Pre-fail Always - 84203004
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0003 094 094 000 Pre-fail Always - 0
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 099 099 020 Old_age Always - 2009
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036 Pre-fail Always - 1
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 082 060 030 Pre-fail Always - 8977770402
9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 070 070 000 Old_age Always - 27068
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 097 Pre-fail Always - 3
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 099 099 020 Old_age Always - 2008
184 End-to-End_Error 0x0032 100 100 099 Old_age Always - 0
187 Reported_Uncorrect 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
188 Command_Timeout 0x0032 099 092 000 Old_age Always - 68720529701
189 High_Fly_Writes 0x003a 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 076 054 045 Old_age Always - 24 (Min/Max 22/24)
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 024 046 000 Old_age Always - 24 (0 11 0 0 0)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 048 030 000 Old_age Always - 84203004
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 100 100 000 Old_age Offline - 0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x003e 200 181 000 Old_age Always - 2683

SMART Error Log Version: 1
ATA Error Count: 1
CR = Command Register [HEX]
FR = Features Register [HEX]
SC = Sector Count Register [HEX]
SN = Sector Number Register [HEX]
CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX]
CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX]
DH = Device/Head Register [HEX]
DC = Device Command Register [HEX]
ER = Error register [HEX]
ST = Status register [HEX]
Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as
DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes,
SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days.

Error 1 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 13423 hours (559 days + 7 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
08 51 00 00 00 00 00 Error:

Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
3f 00 01 ff ff ff ef 00 00:00:08.345 WRITE LOG EXT
2f 00 01 ff ff ff ef 00 00:00:08.340 READ LOG EXT
3f 00 01 ff ff ff ef 00 00:00:08.338 WRITE LOG EXT
2f 00 02 ff ff ff ef 00 00:00:08.335 READ LOG EXT
3f 00 01 ff ff ff ef 00 00:00:08.334 WRITE LOG EXT

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num Test_Description Status Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error
# 1 Extended offline Completed without error 00% 14400 -
# 2 Short offline Completed without error 00% 13472 -

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
1 0 0 Not_testing
2 0 0 Not_testing
3 0 0 Not_testing
4 0 0 Not_testing
5 0 0 Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036 Pre-fail Always - 1

ok, one sector was reallocated. Something you need to keep an eye o, but nothing to lose sleep on.

10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 097 Pre-fail Always - 3

this is more worrisome. A lot more worrisome.


199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x003e 200 181 000 Old_age Always - 2683

oh fuck. Well. Not really. This is either cabling or a bad, noisy power supply.

But if you still get these after replacing the cable and not laying it next to the power switching circuits of your mobo, you got a problem.

This is how a healthy drive looks like:

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 100 100 016 Pre-fail Always - 0
2 Throughput_Performance 0x0005 134 134 054 Pre-fail Offline - 103
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0007 138 138 024 Pre-fail Always - 398 (Average 396)
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 1141
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 005 Pre-fail Always - 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000b 100 100 067 Pre-fail Always - 0
8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0005 146 146 020 Pre-fail Offline - 29
9 Power_On_Hours 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 5298
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 060 Pre-fail Always - 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 1140
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 099 099 000 Old_age Always - 1244
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 099 099 000 Old_age Always - 1244
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0002 214 214 000 Old_age Always - 28 (Min/Max 18/42)
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0022 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0008 100 100 000 Old_age Offline - 0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x000a 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num Test_Description Status Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error
# 1 Short offline Completed without error 00% 5256 -
# 2 Short offline Completed without error 00% 5202 -
# 3 Short offline Completed without error 00% 5147 -
# 4 Short offline Completed without error 00% 5102 -
# 5 Short offline Completed without error 00% 5050 -
# 6 Extended offline Completed without error 00% 5015 -
# 7 Short offline Completed without error 00% 5004 -
# 8 Short offline Completed without error 00% 4927 -
# 9 Extended offline Completed without error 00% 4862 -
#10 Short offline Completed without error 00% 4844 -
#11 Short offline Completed without error 00% 4749 -
#12 Short offline Completed without error 00% 4683 -
#13 Short offline Completed without error 00% 4635 -
#14 Short offline Completed without error 00% 4575 -
#15 Extended offline Completed without error 00% 4562 -
#16 Short offline Completed without error 00% 4492 -
#17 Short offline Completed without error 00% 4418 -
#18 Short offline Completed without error 00% 4362 -
#19 Short offline Completed without error 00% 4298 -
#20 Short offline Completed without error 00% 4228 -
#21 Short offline Completed without error 00% 4158 -


you really should run smartd in the background and let it test on a regular basis.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After launch smartd (with this smart config line: /dev/sda -H -l error -l selftest -f -m root -M exec /usr/share/smartmontools/smartd-runner ) , i have only this log:

$ cat /var/log/syslog | grep smartd wrote:

Sep 24 10:51:56 swing smartd[2858]: smartd 6.2 2013-07-26 r3841 [x86_64-linux-3.13.0-36-generic] (local build)
Sep 24 10:51:56 swing smartd[2858]: Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org
Sep 24 10:51:56 swing smartd[2858]: Opened configuration file /etc/smartd.conf
Sep 24 10:51:56 swing smartd[2858]: Configuration file /etc/smartd.conf parsed.
Sep 24 10:51:56 swing smartd[2858]: Device: /dev/sda, type changed from 'scsi' to 'sat'
Sep 24 10:51:56 swing smartd[2858]: Device: /dev/sda [SAT], opened
Sep 24 10:51:56 swing smartd[2858]: Device: /dev/sda [SAT], ST3500320AS, S/N:9QM1STG7, WWN:5-000c50-00b8116bd, FW:SD1A, 500 GB
Sep 24 10:51:56 swing smartd[2858]: Device: /dev/sda [SAT], found in smartd database: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11
Sep 24 10:51:56 swing smartd[2858]: Device: /dev/sda [SAT], is SMART capable. Adding to "monitor" list.
Sep 24 10:51:56 swing smartd[2858]: Device: /dev/sda [SAT], state read from /var/lib/smartmontools/smartd.ST3500320AS-9QM1STG7.ata.state
Sep 24 10:51:56 swing smartd[2858]: Monitoring 1 ATA and 0 SCSI devices
Sep 24 10:51:56 swing smartd[2858]: Device: /dev/sda [SAT], state written to /var/lib/smartmontools/smartd.ST3500320AS-9QM1STG7.ata.state
Sep 24 10:51:56 swing smartd[2860]: smartd has fork()ed into background mode. New PID=2860.


and

cat /var/lib/smartmontools/smartd.ST3500320AS-9QM1STG7.ata.state wrote:

ata-error-count = 1
ata-smart-attribute.0.id = 1
ata-smart-attribute.0.val = 116
ata-smart-attribute.0.worst = 99
ata-smart-attribute.0.raw = 107200633
ata-smart-attribute.1.id = 3
ata-smart-attribute.1.val = 94
ata-smart-attribute.1.worst = 94
ata-smart-attribute.2.id = 4
ata-smart-attribute.2.val = 99
ata-smart-attribute.2.worst = 99
ata-smart-attribute.2.raw = 2010
ata-smart-attribute.3.id = 5
ata-smart-attribute.3.val = 100
ata-smart-attribute.3.worst = 100
ata-smart-attribute.3.raw = 1
ata-smart-attribute.4.id = 7
ata-smart-attribute.4.val = 82
ata-smart-attribute.4.worst = 60
ata-smart-attribute.4.raw = 8977849027
ata-smart-attribute.5.id = 9
ata-smart-attribute.5.val = 70
ata-smart-attribute.5.worst = 70
ata-smart-attribute.5.raw = 27075
ata-smart-attribute.6.id = 10
ata-smart-attribute.6.val = 100
ata-smart-attribute.6.worst = 100
ata-smart-attribute.6.raw = 3
ata-smart-attribute.7.id = 12
ata-smart-attribute.7.val = 99
ata-smart-attribute.7.worst = 99
ata-smart-attribute.7.raw = 2009
ata-smart-attribute.8.id = 184
ata-smart-attribute.8.val = 100
ata-smart-attribute.8.worst = 100
ata-smart-attribute.9.id = 187
ata-smart-attribute.9.val = 100
ata-smart-attribute.9.worst = 100
ata-smart-attribute.10.id = 188
ata-smart-attribute.10.val = 100
ata-smart-attribute.10.worst = 92
ata-smart-attribute.10.raw = 68720529703
ata-smart-attribute.11.id = 189
ata-smart-attribute.11.val = 100
ata-smart-attribute.11.worst = 100
ata-smart-attribute.12.id = 190
ata-smart-attribute.12.val = 66
ata-smart-attribute.12.worst = 54
ata-smart-attribute.12.raw = 571801634
ata-smart-attribute.13.id = 194
ata-smart-attribute.13.val = 34
ata-smart-attribute.13.worst = 46
ata-smart-attribute.13.raw = 47244640290
ata-smart-attribute.14.id = 195
ata-smart-attribute.14.val = 41
ata-smart-attribute.14.worst = 30
ata-smart-attribute.14.raw = 107200633
ata-smart-attribute.15.id = 197
ata-smart-attribute.15.val = 100
ata-smart-attribute.15.worst = 100
ata-smart-attribute.16.id = 198
ata-smart-attribute.16.val = 100
ata-smart-attribute.16.worst = 100
ata-smart-attribute.17.id = 199
ata-smart-attribute.17.val = 200
ata-smart-attribute.17.worst = 181
ata-smart-attribute.17.raw = 2683


after some hours, it give no more messages in /var/log/syslog.


PS: After the slowness problems, i formatted the disk with dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda and than reinstalling the operation system (but i have a problem to restore my gentoo installation.. so now i'm using ubuntu in order to install a system in a little time..) and NOW, it seems to works without any problem.

Is better to buy a new hard disk or can i wait and hope that this disk could be working for more time?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smartd does things like scheduling self tests and reporting to you, if there is a problem running those tests.

Google is your friend.

One reallocated sector is usually not a problem.

But spin retries are worrisome.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried to change sata cable and power cable. But spin retries and UDMA_CRC_Error_Count values don't change. They are values occurred in past, righ? So, they can't change... but i should watch if they increment themself?

Some month ago i changed my power supply, because the old one makes some noise.... Now i have a corsair CX430, it seems a good power supply. I think it was not the problem.

So, is better to change hard disk? (now it seems work correctly...)
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lordalbert wrote:
I tried to change sata cable and power cable. But spin retries and UDMA_CRC_Error_Count values don't change. They are values occurred in past, righ? So, they can't change... but i should watch if they increment themself?

Some month ago i changed my power supply, because the old one makes some noise.... Now i have a corsair CX430, it seems a good power supply. I think it was not the problem.

So, is better to change hard disk? (now it seems work correctly...)


they will never go down. Correct. And yes, you should look out for changes. If the respin and UDMA_CRC_ERR_Count values are stable, you should be fine.

Btw, 'seems' and some random brand name means nothing when it comes to PSUs.
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