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GFCCAE6xF
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve he didn't point at you specifically with the not working for Red Hat line, I think you may be taking all of this a little too seriously.

You seem to have accused him of being a what? Some paid RH employee using mysterious "insider" knowledge to troll these forums (or just you) all because... he admitted to watching a youtube video and thinking RH wont sabotage their own business with security problems? I mean come on, really?

His "jibe" seems perfectly fair. If his views make him a RH employee then going by the tone and hive-mind of these echo chamber threads it makes quite a lot of sense that a lot of people have been fired from RH or couldn't land the job.
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augustin
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve and all,

Once more, can we stop with all the bickering and name calling?
Can we stick to factual, technical information?

Our little problems, disagreements and disputes pale in comparison to this world's real problems, the humanitarian emergencies that are being ignored by all, the true misery and despair rampant in many countries, the dire environmental degradation that we have not yet started to take seriously (I think Earth Overshoot Day was August 15th, this month, so as of today, we have been overshooting this year's natural allowance for 3 weeks already).

So please, in the name of all that really matter, keep the discussion here civil, factual, informative, with care to elevate the signal/noise ratio.

Thanks.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GFCCAE6xF wrote:
Steve he didn't point at you specifically with the not working for Red Hat line

This is nonsense; it was in direct response to a quote of mine.

Note he regularly chops out and ignores what I'm saying, so what he does leave in, to come back at with some specious line, is relevant.

As for the rest, I'm not taking it that seriously, nor do I care enough to get into it.

In this thread and others, ulenrich avoids straight questions, and deflects into personal attacks on me, instead of dealing with the issues head-on.

Y'all can keep making out he's a nice guy, but imo he's most assuredly not: he's simply a shill.
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ulenrich
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@steveL, in contrary to you as the emotional guy, I am not. I play with any emotionally put argument of yours:
steveL wrote:
Sounds an awful lot like you work for RedHat.
ulenrich wrote:
/Me, having a very positive view on Redhat,
But keeping some truth anyway (I very much dislike Fedora).

steveL wrote:
Y'all can keep making out he's a nice guy, but imo he's most assuredly not:
Holds true, assured by myself. Never pretended to be nice.

steveL wrote:
In this thread and others, ulenrich avoids straight questions, and deflects into personal attacks on me, instead of dealing with the issues head-on.
My attack on you was weeks before, which you never acknowledged directly.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
@steveL, in contrary to you as the emotional guy, I am not. I play with any emotionally put argument of yours:
steveL wrote:
Sounds an awful lot like you work for RedHat.

How is that an emotive argument?
Quote:
ulenrich wrote:
/Me, having a very positive view on Redhat,
But keeping some truth anyway (I very much dislike Fedora).

Jeez, you're doing it again; quoting yourself, with words you didn't say, and here you go again trying to play cool and not really a RedHat stooge, with your putdown of Fedora.

steveL wrote:
Y'all can keep making out he's a nice guy, but imo he's most assuredly not:

Quote:
Holds true, assured by myself. Never pretended to be nice.

Yes you did; you've pm'ed me twice declaiming what a nice guy you are really, and how your weird and wacky arguments that no-one else understands, aren't understood by you either; they're just attempts at surreal comedy to take the heat out of flamewars.

My position is that they're nothing of the sort; they have an overwhelming tendency to name-drop and make out like we all need to sign up to the RedHat corporate programme.

AFAIC you're basically a cheerleader for RedHat and systemdbust, going solely from the content of your posts.

Funnily enough I don't recall seeing you post in any other threads, either before or since this whole systemdiot "gentle Putsch" started.
I'm sure you have ofc; it just seems odd that you've never been around much, but are suddenly such a stridently vocal supporter of the vendor lock-in agenda.
Quote:
My attack on you was weeks before, which you never acknowledged directly.

Nonsense; you dived back into a thread that had died weeks before, simply to accuse me with more insane ramblings.
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gwr
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like kdbus was merged into kernel-next. I guess time will tell if it makes it into 4.4.

https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/next/linux-next.git/commit/?id=951919803d261b05a8fb97678cb09a24fa1ba47a
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gwr wrote:
Looks like kdbus was merged into kernel-next. I guess time will tell if it makes it into 4.4.

https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/next/linux-next.git/commit/?id=951919803d261b05a8fb97678cb09a24fa1ba47a


It's been in kernel-next a few times now, and no closer to being in the kernel.

I believe, that until the issues brought up by Andy L, and others get addressed, instead of being ignored there won't be an acceptance into the kernel.

kernel-next is just a holding spot for the next kernel, but just because something is there it doesn't mean it will get merged.

As you say time will tell.
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gwr
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:

It's been in kernel-next a few times now, and no closer to being in the kernel.


Whoops, I didn't notice that before. I figured once it was merged into kernel-next it was a done deal.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gwr wrote:
Anon-E-moose wrote:

It's been in kernel-next a few times now, and no closer to being in the kernel.


Whoops, I didn't notice that before. I figured once it was merged into kernel-next it was a done deal.


I wonder if anyone is going to try to engineer a "bookkeeping accident" that just happens to get kdbus into the kernel. Has anything ever gotten into the kernel by such an accident, before?
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding of kernel-next is that it is a repository of code for Linus to pick and choose what goes into the next kernel release.
In other words lots of potential changes to the kernel, but I don't think that something would accidently get into the kernel.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here we go again
http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1510.1/00292.html
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ulenrich
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Here we go again
http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1510.1/00292.html
Pretty boring for me just watching this teaching.

As we all know kdbus has no chance of inclusion if not hooked with lsm. Now there are people exactly trying that:
http://www.spinics.net/lists/selinux/msg17808.html
Where you can find in the follow up "Organization: National Security Agency"
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depontius
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
Naib wrote:
Here we go again
http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1510.1/00292.html
Pretty boring for me just watching this teaching.

As we all know kdbus has no chance of inclusion if not hooked with lsm. Now there are people exactly trying that:
http://www.spinics.net/lists/selinux/msg17808.html
Where you can find in the follow up "Organization: National Security Agency"


Does this effectively mean that one must run selinux in order to hope for a secure system?
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gwr
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

depontius wrote:


Does this effectively mean that one must run selinux in order to hope for a secure system?


I don't think they have come out and said so directly, but the implications of what I am seeing is that yes, they expexct to spin it that selinux is required for security because of backwards compatibility reasons.
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gwr
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:

Where you can find in the follow up "Organization: National Security Agency"


Wow, I thought you were kidding at first.
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

depontius wrote:
Does this effectively mean that one must run selinux in order to hope for a secure system?

depontius ... "one", hehe, its all about you and your needs isn't it? ;) ... it's "not a product for 'end-users'", so kindly shudup, and "send patches" ;)

best ... khay (the NSA shill)
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

depontius wrote:
Does this effectively mean that one must run selinux in order to hope for a secure system?
You probably wanted to ask this regarding systemd. That is another thread.

kdbus without any lsm compatibility: Despite you enabled an additional Linux security module there would be a path around with kdbus. In current state kdbus disables any of that effectively :(
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krinn
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.spinics.net/lists/selinux/msg17810.html
Quote:
The effective uid/gid is used as it was used
in all areas of the previous kdbus code except for areas where the
uid/gid was never set beyond the basic initialization to zero/root;
I expect this was a bug that was never caught as the node creator in
these cases was always expect to be root.


When i see that i have two things coming to my mind:
1- while he review kdbus with lsm he found a bug ; showing how good the code was review, and how so true kernel devs are when they ask them to review that shit ; really.
2- the "i expect this was a bug" is also kinda telling ; well, it doesn't look that good, i think it might be a bug, but no, i'm not sure... Why? Because i don't know what this is doing, but hell yes, i have no problem to change a code that i have no idea what it is doing and why it was done like that :D
And this is what they call "security"???
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depontius
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:

And this is what they call "security"???


But it's the systemd people doing it, so it must be ok, or at least forgiveable. It's good enough for US politics, so it must be good enough for Linux.
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess this short blog post by Rob Landley on sysfs, kdbus, and kernel devdelopment, belongs here.

best ... khay
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khayyam wrote:
I guess this short blog post by Rob Landley on sysfs, kdbus, and kernel devdelopment, belongs here.

best ... khay


GKH will bite Linus in the ass one day.
Just because he's been there for a while doesn't mean he's really trustworthy.
By his actions I would say that he has proven that he can't be trusted.

And Kay has always been a complete and utter clueless moron, thus the reason Linus banned him from kernel development/patching
at least in the development kernel (latest and greatest).

Edit to add: The above are my views/opinions. Take them as you will.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
khayyam wrote:
I guess this short blog post by Rob Landley on sysfs, kdbus, and kernel devdelopment, belongs here.

best ... khay


GKH will bite Linus in the ass one day.
Just because he's been there for a while doesn't mean he's really trustworthy.
By his actions I would say that he has proven that he can't be trusted.

And Kay has always been a complete and utter clueless moron, thus the reason Linus banned him from kernel development/patching
at least in the development kernel (latest and greatest).

Edit to add: The above are my views/opinions. Take them as you will.


That was a disappointing read. It seems difficult to believe that Linus wouldn't notice that kind of thing going on.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gwr wrote:
Anon-E-moose wrote:
khayyam wrote:
I guess this short blog post by Rob Landley on sysfs, kdbus, and kernel devdelopment, belongs here.

best ... khay


GKH will bite Linus in the ass one day.
Just because he's been there for a while doesn't mean he's really trustworthy.
By his actions I would say that he has proven that he can't be trusted.

And Kay has always been a complete and utter clueless moron, thus the reason Linus banned him from kernel development/patching
at least in the development kernel (latest and greatest).

Edit to add: The above are my views/opinions. Take them as you will.


That was a disappointing read. It seems difficult to believe that Linus wouldn't notice that kind of thing going on.

He probably does but it is a very silly political game. Not getting dragged into it and sticking purely to technical aspects of the kernel (and being very OBJECTIVE w.r.t. patching, ie not blocking kdbus outright) allows him to fully observe and not antagonise any potential coup
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krinn
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reality is that, if Linus die, we're in deep shit.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
The reality is that, if Linus die, we're in deep shit.


The kernel will more than likely fork.

It'll be RH and the devs they own vs all the others.
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