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mauricev
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:39 am    Post subject: Rubbery Grubbery Reply with quote

I'm building a gentoo-sources kernel for an Intel H81 motherboard and am running into some rather strange problems. I'm presently building the kernel on a VMWare VM and rsync'ing the whole distribution to the machine, which has the hard drive mounted via an ArchLinux boot CD.

(I have to use that disc and not a sysrescuecd because sysrescuecd 4.6.0 spontaneously drops the ethernet configuration. The ArchLinux CD works just fine.)

When the system first starts under my build, I am presented in grub with the two kernel choices I've built. For some strange reason, I have trouble using the up and down arrow keys with the keyboard. I have four choices altogether (2 are "recovery mode") and it takes some work to get the keyboard to pick my second kernel build, which is the third choice. That is, in my build of grub, the keyboard is jumps two choices at a time after I reach the second choice and I have to fight it to get to select what I want. What could possibly cause this? It works fine everywhere in ArchLinux (and in the sysrescuecd for that matter).

Once I finally select a kernel, the onboard video shuts off, and I have no idea why. lshw reports the video card driver as "i915", but I have tried it as a module and part of the kernel compiled in and that makes no difference.

One last point, this board has ISA slots and intend to use them, and it's my understanding that will require the kernel be 32-bit, so I am compiling these cards that way.
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lexflex
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:26 am    Post subject: Re: Rubbery Grubbery Reply with quote

Hi Mauricev,

mauricev wrote:
I'm building a gentoo-sources kernel for an Intel H81 motherboard and am running into some rather strange problems. I'm presently building the kernel on a VMWare VM and rsync'ing the whole distribution to the machine, which has the hard drive mounted via an ArchLinux boot CD.



Just to understand your setup: You say you build the kernel in a VM.
Why don't you build your kernel from the Gentoo install ( either by booting it or by chrooting in it ? ).
Is there an install, or are you just trying to build a kernel somehow ?


mauricev wrote:

Once I finally select a kernel, the onboard video shuts off, and I have no idea why. lshw reports the video card driver as "i915", but I have tried it as a module and part of the kernel compiled in and that makes no difference..


What do you mean by ' shuts off' ? Does the screen go black, and Is there no message at all after selecting the kernel? Does this also happen in recovery mode?


Alex.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mauricev,

Make friends with wgetpaste and use it to put your kernel .config onto a pastebin.
Also show us the output of lspci from the target hardware.

It sounds like after you select your kernel in grub, the kernel loads and clears the screen.
After that, one of two things can happen ...
the boot continues normally with the console using black text on a black background. That's not an error.
there is a kernel panic and booting is stopped.

Are there any signs of a panic ... flashing keyboard leds
or the boot continuing ... HDD noises, drive busy lights ...
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Roman_Gruber
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vmware is not the real machine
vmware needs other settings as the real machine. and that applies for anything. video, kernel, settings, anything !
vmware needs another kernel as to boot the same box hardware.

You should have read what the thign called vmware or virtualization really is or does.

Last time i used vmware, and that was more than 5 yeras ago, there was some field which showed which hardware is emulated. Emulated !!

keyboared => dirty keyboard, stuck keys, i have had such issues, linux does not show such issues because i have set the key on / off events accordingly and therefore such events won'T pop up in my boxes, but anything which does not have such settings causes sticky keys. ... clean or exchange your keyboard.
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mauricev
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a little new info. The thing about sysrescuecd losing its network access is due to a program called NetworkManager running in the background. Kill it and my manual networking works. 8)

By going dark, I mean the monitor is no longer receiving a signal from the computer. It's actually blinking a toggled sign "analog" "digital", then it goes to energy saver mode.

What I am doing with the VM is creating the whole distribution there, so I can maintain a live copy of it there and periodically rsync it to the real machine. I'm intending to configure the kernel for both systems. It works under VMWare, of course.

The keyboard is "dirty" only within the confines of grub. It works perfectly everywhere else.

I did something that is now preventing even grub from engaging the monitor, and I've already edited my kernel config, so stay tuned for more info when I get back to this next week.

Here is the lshw output, http://pastebin.com/buxWJcZW
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mauricev,

The kernel supports two sorts of console driver.
The old VGA text only console and a framebuffer console.
Any combination works but if you omit them both, you get the symptoms you describe.

Its probably not possible to have a framebuffer console that supports your real hardware and vmware in the same kernel at the same time.
There are all sorts of conflicts in that area.

It may be possible if you select modules rather than built in framebuffer drivers.
The Intel driver you need for your real hardware will not work in a vmware guest, nor will it work on your real hardware if you have any other framebuffer driver loaded.
You are going into the area of having two drivers fighting over one piece of hardware. Neither will work.

If you choose any kernel option other than Intel, your Xorg graphics performance on the real hardware will be on a par with an etch-a-sketch
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mauricev
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:

The kernel supports two sorts of console driver.
The old VGA text only console and a framebuffer console.
Any combination works but if you omit them both, you get the symptoms you describe.


I'm not sure how this makes sense since 1) I have the VGA console driver loaded and 2) it boots just fine under VMWare.

See http://pasteboard.co/1QEkCc6x.png and http://pasteboard.co/1QEmodUr.png

I have confirmed with these options set, the screen goes to sleep after the grub screen. The keyboard lights (e.g., caps lock) and the mouse are lit up, though, so the machine has some life.

NeddySeagoon wrote:
Its probably not possible to have a framebuffer console that supports your real hardware and vmware in the same kernel at the same time.
There are all sorts of conflicts in that area.


I'm not sure I follow this.

NeddySeagoon wrote:

The Intel driver you need for your real hardware will not work in a vmware guest, nor will it work on your real hardware if you have any other framebuffer driver loaded.


But you are referring to the video driver here, which is separate from the console/framebuffer drivers, correct?

See http://pasteboard.co/1QExlws7.png
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mauricev,

We are working through a keyhole. Please use wgetpaste to post your entire kernel .config file.
Your image http://pasteboard.co/1QEkCc6x.png shows that you have both the VGA console and the Framebuffer Console selected.
The kernel will try to switch to the framebuffer console. Unfortunately, your image does not show what hardware framebuffer options you have selected.

Your image http://pasteboard.co/1QEmodUr.png shows that you have the Intel AGP driver selected and http://pasteboard.co/1QExlws7.png shows that you have the kernel part of the Intel video driver selected too.

Now it gets a little complex.
mauricev wrote:
But you are referring to the video driver here, which is separate from the console/framebuffer drivers, correct?

The simple answer here is maybe.
There are three kernel video drivers, that cooperate with user space Xorg video drivers that include a free framebuffer console.
These are Radeon, Nouveau and Intel. They all have one thing in common. They don't work if you have any other framebuffer driver loaded.
There are a few minor exceptions, like EFI Framebuffer.
What happens then is that the Intel Framebuffer, free with the DRM Intel option you have selected fights for control of the video chipset with any other Framebuffer driver and they both loose.

Other Xorg video drivers will tolerate the use of framebuffers with simple in their name, vesa and sometimes uvesa.

I suspect it works in vmware and not in the real hardware due to the conflicting requirements of the real hardware and the emulated hardware.

I need your entire kernel .config file and the output of lspci from both vmware and the real hardware to help much more.
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mauricev
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ended up switching to funtoo since I had a vm built there to play with But initially its grub wouldn't even show, going to straight to energy saver. However, when I switched to UEFI (all the above was bios booting), its grub works completely including the keyboard!

Anyway, I'm uploading two configurations of gentoo-sources that I have tried to no avail, http://pastebin.com/DxCnzvSd and http://pastebin.com/08GzUFxE.

I know that for the the second one, the one marked config_w-vga--intel, the screen goes dark, but it does not engage the screensaver and the keyboard and mouse light up.
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mauricev
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

almost forgot, the lspci, http://pastebin.com/iNU7vbPA
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mauricev
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the lspci for the vmware machine, http://pastebin.com/E4vYpyVb
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Roman_Gruber
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vmware gpu

Quote:
00:0f.0 VGA compatible controller: VMware SVGA II Adapter
Subsystem: VMware SVGA II Adapter
Kernel driver in use: vmwgfx
Kernel modules: vmwgfx


vs real box gpu

Quote:
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 4th Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 06)
DeviceName: Onboard IGD
Subsystem: Intel Corporation 4th Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller
Kernel driver in use: i915
Kernel modules: i915


2 different gpus, as in the past, 5-10 years ago, as i last time used that piece of software.

When you want to use your box in vmware, you need to tweak, make the vmware gpu useable in the vmware thing itself.

Quote:

Once I finally select a kernel, the onboard video shuts off, and I have no idea why. lshw reports the video card driver as "i915", but I have tried it as a module and part of the kernel compiled in and that makes no difference.


which was already answered in my previous comment, about difference vmware vs real box.

build those kernel modules in your vmware environment and you should be able to use it now

Quote:
00:0f.0 VGA compatible controller: VMware SVGA II Adapter
Subsystem: VMware SVGA II Adapter
Kernel driver in use: vmwgfx
Kernel modules: vmwgfx
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mauricev
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
which was already answered in my previous comment, about difference vmware vs real box.


I am sorry, but I don't follow. The latest--as I mentioned above--is that the kernel with the appropriate modules (as given in http://pastebin.com/08GzUFxE) goes dark after grub. That is, it is no longer ignoring the monitor as much as it was earlier when the monitor went into energy saver mode.

I'm also not sure why VMWare is important to any of this. It works in VMWare just fine.
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mauricev
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for everyone's help.

It turns out all the responses were red herrings. The motherboard has both onboard DVI and VGA connectors. The problem is with the motherboard and its interaction with DVI. When connected to just VGA, it all works fine.
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