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MrMe01
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:06 pm    Post subject: Offline PDF install guide? Reply with quote

Hi folks,

I remember a while back there was a PDF version of the install guide, as well as a single page option instead of the stepped guide. I'm not able to find the PDF version, although I can find the single page document,

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Full/Installation

Do I have to seek permission to turn this guide into a PDF, or is there a PDF version available?
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kikko
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi MrMe01
what are you using for browsing the wiki? You should be able to "print" the page to a pdf file using Firefox, or at least to save the page to use it offline with everything else

Regards
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MrMe01
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kikko wrote:
Hi MrMe01
what are you using for browsing the wiki? You should be able to "print" the page to a pdf file using Firefox, or at least to save the page to use it offline with everything else

Regards


I only asked as there's a copyright at the very bottom footer element of the page. I'm using Chrome but I have Firefox installed, so I can print to PDF. I'm looking to prepare a customised install guide, but as I am creating a derivative of the original document for myself and others to use.

The reason I ask is it's unclear if the copyright is a blanket copyright over everything or everything excluding the guide. If there's one on the PDF version as well as the website, it's clear that permission is needed to create a derivative.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrMe01,

If you want to create a PDF for yourself, I don't think anyone will know.

If you want to creade a PDF and publish it you need to follow the fine print at the bottom of every wiki page.
wiki.gentoo.org wrote:
Gentoo is a trademark of the Gentoo Foundation, Inc. The contents of this document, unless otherwise expressly stated, are licensed under the CC-BY-SA-3.0 license. The Gentoo Name and Logo Usage Guidelines apply.


Providing you comply with the CC-BY-SA-3.0 license and the Gentoo Name and Logo Usage Guidelines, no further permissions are required.
The Foundation will be pleased to help if anything is not clear. email trustees at gentoo dot org.
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MrMe01
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
MrMe01,

If you want to create a PDF for yourself, I don't think anyone will know.

If you want to creade a PDF and publish it you need to follow the fine print at the bottom of every wiki page.
wiki.gentoo.org wrote:
Gentoo is a trademark of the Gentoo Foundation, Inc. The contents of this document, unless otherwise expressly stated, are licensed under the CC-BY-SA-3.0 license. The Gentoo Name and Logo Usage Guidelines apply.


Providing you comply with the CC-BY-SA-3.0 license and the Gentoo Name and Logo Usage Guidelines, no further permissions are required.
The Foundation will be pleased to help if anything is not clear. email trustees at gentoo dot org.


Thanks for clearing that up.

It's going to be an internal document as I'm deploying Gentoo onto a few test systems that others might need to reinstall / work on, but things of this nature may find it's way out into the public eye, via sharing an otherwise seemingly innocuous document. It's not to be published by myself, but may be sent to as an uncomplicated install guide.

We have a whole toolchain of stuff on USB keys that are all freeware / open source and I've found our customised open source software elsewhere on the internet.

I'll make sure the document I do create has the Gentoo header on it and a nice reminder that it's not to be shared.

It's more of a what-if more than anything else.
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrMe01 wrote:
I'll make sure the document I do create has the Gentoo header on it and a nice reminder that it's not to be shared.

MrMe01 ... if you have to provide terms, then you're sharing it ;) Anyhow, what Neddy won't tell you is you can buy one on the dark net ... where there is a premium for l33t docz of this type ;)

best ... khay
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrMe01,

If you want to render the Wiki page as is, as a PDF. That's not an issue.

If you create a derived work by editing the Wiki page after you have downloaded it, its no longer a Gentoo document and you will need to think about any use of the Gentoo logo on the document. If you do your edits on the wiki first ...

For the avoidance of doubt, even though I am one of the five trustees, my contributions to this thread are my individual opinions. They are not statements on behalf of the Gentoo Foundation Inc.
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Computer users fall into two groups:-
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MrMe01
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khayyam wrote:
MrMe01 wrote:
I'll make sure the document I do create has the Gentoo header on it and a nice reminder that it's not to be shared.

MrMe01 ... if you have to provide terms, then you're sharing it ;) Anyhow, what Neddy won't tell you is you can buy one on the dark net ... where there is a premium for l33t docz of this type ;)

best ... khay


It's an internal document, but not based on my own work, to be shared with other people inside of that internal. Not for public availability, but as it's a technical document, that has nothing added, just stuff removed, it could find its way out of that internal. Kind of a grey area.

I'll keep an eye out for those 1337 docz, they might contain public information :P
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MrMe01
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
MrMe01,

If you want to render the Wiki page as is, as a PDF. That's not an issue.

If you create a derived work by editing the Wiki page after you have downloaded it, its no longer a Gentoo document and you will need to think about any use of the Gentoo logo on the document. If you do your edits on the wiki first ...

For the avoidance of doubt, even though I am one of the five trustees, my contributions to this thread are my individual opinions. They are not statements on behalf of the Gentoo Foundation Inc.


So, if my reading between the line skill are up to scratch, download a copy, edit it, remove all ties to Gentoo (in the form of copyright / images of the Gentoo g) and then I'm okay if it does find its way into the public domain?
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kikko
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrMe01 wrote:
...scratch, download a copy, edit it, remove all ties to Gentoo (in the form of copyright / images of the Gentoo g) and then I'm okay if it does find its way into the public domain?

Don't forget the Creative Commons terms (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/) in your derivate work :wink:

Regards
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrMe01,

You may not remove the copyright from anything. However, you may add yourself if you make 'substantial additions'. Deletions don't count.
You can continue to use the Gentoo G logo to refer to Gentoo but you need to make it clear that your derivative work is not endorsed by Gentoo.

Copyright and Licencing are separate issues. You need to comply with both.
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Computer users fall into two groups:-
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jonathan183
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
MrMe01,

If you want to render the Wiki page as is, as a PDF. That's not an issue.

If you create a derived work by editing the Wiki page after you have downloaded it, its no longer a Gentoo document and you will need to think about any use of the Gentoo logo on the document. If you do your edits on the wiki first ...


maybe update the quick installation checklist on the wiki, pdf that and make reference to your special steps for internal use like setting root password to neddy_made_me_do_it
... that way everyone gains ;)
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MrMe01
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
MrMe01,

You may not remove the copyright from anything. However, you may add yourself if you make 'substantial additions'. Deletions don't count.
You can continue to use the Gentoo G logo to refer to Gentoo but you need to make it clear that your derivative work is not endorsed by Gentoo.

Copyright and Licencing are separate issues. You need to comply with both.


This is such a minefield!

As you're the point of authority here, can I create the document as I think it should be created, with the correct attributes and ask you or another trustee for approval? Is that an option?
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can create a document for your own use—with or without embellishment—without restriction. So long as your intent is not to let it get into the wild, I wouldn't worry about it.

- John
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Last edited by John R. Graham on Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MrMe01
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonathan183 wrote:
NeddySeagoon wrote:
MrMe01,

If you want to render the Wiki page as is, as a PDF. That's not an issue.

If you create a derived work by editing the Wiki page after you have downloaded it, its no longer a Gentoo document and you will need to think about any use of the Gentoo logo on the document. If you do your edits on the wiki first ...


maybe update the quick installation checklist on the wiki, pdf that and make reference to your special steps for internal use like setting root password to neddy_made_me_do_it
... that way everyone gains ;)


There's a quick guide?!

I really wish there was a multi-quote button.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrMe01,

You can ask the trustees as a body. The trustees will either make a decision or seek a legal opinion.
Any decision you get from the trustees as a body will be on behalf of Gentoo. Hence my disclaimer a few posts up.

Yes it is a minefield.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Quick_Installation_Checklist
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MrMe01
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham wrote:
You can create a document for your own use without restriction. If you want to publish it, it gets more complicated. Do you want that? To publish it, I mean?

- John


I'll elaborate on what I've been tasked to do.
The company I work for want to move away from Windows on both client and server sides in the wake of Windows 10, and the backporting of the data collection to Windows 7 that we use on client side. We want something with the vast flexibility and granular control that Gentoo has to offer, but this means we need to retrain our technical staff.

To speed this up, I'm creating a few 'cheat sheets' for the speed up of rollout when it comes to deployment and disaster recovery. Basically, how to get the disks formatted and get the system up and running. As the guide on the website is far too much to go through, I want to create a document that gives a short explanation as well as the exact command.

Nothing company specific or confidential will be in the document, besides refer to this document or copy a pre-written file.

The nature of the document I'm looking to create could be shared as an easy guide to getting Gentoo up and running, not by me, but others who I'll distribute the document to. I know a few of the guys I work with want to get into Linux and may see the guide as something to be shared.

I hope this makes sense.
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CC-BY-SA isn't a minefield nor is it hard to follow. The name is a pretty big clue: "BY" - you leave in proper attribution and copyright notices. "Share-Alike" - you leave the original license notice in place. Printing wiki pages as PDF already does these things; you would need significant *extra* effort to screw it up.

If you're at the sort of company where this needs to be inflated into a huge issue, I suggest you take it to their legal department, not these forums.
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MrMe01
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
CC-BY-SA isn't a minefield nor is it hard to follow. The name is a pretty big clue: "BY" - you leave in proper attribution and copyright notices. "Share-Alike" - you leave the original license notice in place. Printing wiki pages as PDF already does these things; you would need significant *extra* effort to screw it up.

If you're at the sort of company where this needs to be inflated into a huge issue, I suggest you take it to their legal department, not these forums.


If you understand it, then it's easy. I have no idea when it comes licensing rules.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrMe01,

If you publish a Gentoo Wiki page as a PDF. thats OK.
If you download a Gentoo Wiki page, make minor technical edits, then publish that's OK, you should make it clear that the document has been changed.
If you download a Gentoo Wiki page, make 'substantial' additions and add yourself (your company) to the copyright, that's OK.

You may not remove the licence, nor the Gentoo copyright in any of the above.
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Computer users fall into two groups:-
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MrMe01
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
MrMe01,

If you publish a Gentoo Wiki page as a PDF. thats OK.
If you download a Gentoo Wiki page, make minor technical edits, then publish that's OK, you should make it clear that the document has been changed.
If you download a Gentoo Wiki page, make 'substantial' additions and add yourself (your company) to the copyright, that's OK.

You may not remove the licence, nor the Gentoo copyright in any of the above.


Ahh, that makes perfect sense. I'll create the document and forward a copy to the above email address for approval, I have no issues with giving the document to the community either, if it is desired.
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