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jbk
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:52 pm    Post subject: Gentoo ISO: A couple of noob questions Reply with quote

In regard to the Gentoo iso(s):

1. What is the actual /efi/boot/filename.efi (in regard to x64 architecture)?

2. Why do I have to ask this question? More to the point, why are the ISOs password protected, so I can't answer my own question, let alone do something if that filename is not /efi/boot/bootx64.efi (as I suspect)? I find it hard to envision a rationale for this when the purported purpose of Gentoo is "hands on"....
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Gentoo ISO: A couple of noob questions Reply with quote

jbk wrote:
1. What is the actual /efi/boot/filename.efi (in regard to x64 architecture)?

jbk ... you mean what kind of efi executable? No idea ... but wait, gentoo minimal iso's now support EFI booting?

jbk wrote:
2. Why do I have to ask this question? More to the point, why are the ISOs password protected, so I can't answer my own question, let alone do something if that filename is not /efi/boot/bootx64.efi (as I suspect)? I find it hard to envision a rationale for this when the purported purpose of Gentoo is "hands on"....

You mean to say that you are unable to loop mount the iso, or what? What tool are you using that prompts for a password? If this is the case then how do you know there is a /efi/boot/bootx64.efi?

AFAIK, the gentoo iso's don't support efi booting, that may have changed, but generally the advice I normally provide is to use sysresccd.

best ... khay
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jbk
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:07 am    Post subject: Re: Gentoo ISO: A couple of noob questions Reply with quote

khayyam wrote:
jbk ... you mean what kind of efi executable? No idea ... but wait, gentoo minimal iso's now support EFI booting?

You mean to say that you are unable to loop mount the iso, or what? What tool are you using that prompts for a password? If this is the case then how do you know there is a /efi/boot/bootx64.efi?

AFAIK, the gentoo iso's don't support efi booting, that may have changed, but generally the advice I normally provide is to use sysresccd.

best ... khay


No, I meant exactly what I asked: what is the NAME portion of the .efi file in the path /efi/boot/NAME.efi (located in the (fat32) ESP partition? The Gentoo Handbook clearly states that the CD should be booted under UEFI if the end goal is a UEFI supported system. In the case of the System Rescue CD (Gentoo based), the filename is "bootx64.efi", as seen when the ISO is expanded (in my case by the Windows version of PEAZIP). That filename is the DEFAULT when a x64 UEFI finds no match for registered bootfiles (if any). Works just fine with System Rescue CD which is Gentoo based. (Well, it works with whatever version of DUET that Oracle is incorporating into Virtualbox.) When I attempted to expand the Gentoo ISO, I found it annoyingly password protected (for reasons unknown), so I cannot confirm whether the problem (I just get dropped to the UEFI Shell) is an incorrect (non-default) filename or something else.
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: Gentoo ISO: A couple of noob questions Reply with quote

jbk wrote:
No, I meant exactly what I asked: what is the NAME portion of the .efi file in the path /efi/boot/NAME.efi (located in the (fat32) ESP partition?

jbk ... you asked "what is the actual /efi/boot/filename.efi", that could mean *exactly* a number of things ... and includes the positing of its existance.

jbk wrote:
The Gentoo Handbook clearly states that the CD should be booted under UEFI if the end goal is a UEFI supported system.

I doubt it says "the CD", because the minimal iso's, as I said above, don't support UEFI booting. The boot disk used doesn't need to be a gentoo provided image it can be any boot disk ... as long as that particular boot disk provides whatever it is you need (UEFI, networking, etc) for installing (hence my pointing you at sysresccd).

jbk wrote:
In the case of the System Rescue CD (Gentoo based), the filename is "bootx64.efi", as seen when the ISO is expanded (in my case by the Windows version of PEAZIP). That filename is the DEFAULT when a x64 UEFI finds no match for registered bootfiles (if any). Works just fine with System Rescue CD which is Gentoo based. (Well, it works with whatever version of DUET that Oracle is incorporating into Virtualbox.)

Then why not use sysresccd as the install medium?

jbk wrote:
When I attempted to expand the Gentoo ISO, I found it annoyingly password protected (for reasons unknown), so I cannot confirm whether the problem (I just get dropped to the UEFI Shell) is an incorrect (non-default) filename or something else.

I'm not sure what you mean by "expand", an iso is a block device and is (loop) mounted. I see no reason why gentoo iso's would be password protected, once mounted its trivial to copy the content, modify, and 'mkisofs' ... and I've never had any issue myself doing so. I'm also not sure what a zip compression tool is doing with regards to an iso image, or what sort of thing its decompressing.

best ... khay
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jbk
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Gentoo ISO: A couple of noob questions Reply with quote

khayyam wrote:
jbk wrote:
No, I meant exactly what I asked: what is the NAME portion of the .efi file in the path /efi/boot/NAME.efi (located in the (fat32) ESP partition?

jbk ... you asked "what is the actual /efi/boot/filename.efi", that could mean *exactly* a number of things ... and includes the positing of its existance.


Did you not note that I had set the word filename in italics to underscore that it was the name itself that I wished to ascertain?

khayyam wrote:
I doubt it says "the CD", because the minimal iso's, as I said above, don't support UEFI booting. The boot disk used doesn't need to be a gentoo provided image it can be any boot disk ... as long as that particular boot disk provides whatever it is you need (UEFI, networking, etc) for installing (hence my pointing you at sysresccd).


And you have verified these claims? The current amd64 Handbook, sec 5 ( https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation ) states:"

Important

When installing Gentoo with the purpose of using the UEFI interface instead of BIOS, it is recommended to boot with UEFI immediately.
"

That would be impossible if the install CD did not support being booted under UEFI.....

khayyam wrote:
Then why not use sysresccd as the install medium?

Because I am fully aware of my ignorance and am NOT the author of the install CD; therefore I cannot make (nor proclaim) any assumptions that there could not be some inadvertent dependency in the install CD as to whether it was booted under UEFI or not. In all likelihood there is not, but I would prefer not to wander off into a field of guesses.

khayyam wrote:
...an iso is a block device and is (loop) mounted. I see no reason why gentoo iso's would be password protected, once mounted its trivial to copy the content, modify, and 'mkisofs' ... and I've never had any issue myself doing so. I'm also not sure what a zip compression tool is doing with regards to an iso image, or what sort of thing its decompressing.

Noob though I be, I am quite confident that an ISO is a file, not a device. ISO files (which may or may not be password protected) contain an image of a CD, but in a specialized format which can be expanded by various programs (which may or may not have the word "ZIP" in their name) back into a 'normal' directory tree. ISOs can be the source to a CD 'burner' program, or can be used by other programs/modules to 'present' a loaded virtual CDROM to the OS.

None of this contributes to my original questions, so it is time to end it.
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py-ro
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, you are a friendly guy...

The minimal iso is not EFI capable (also USB3 is broken). Also you can install from any live environment which is capable of doing the chroot, nothing from the disc is used in the install process.

For most people I know using Gentoo the sysrescuecd is the install media of choice.

The Default efi Name is not a Operating System thing, but written in the EFI Specs, so it is the same for all media for the same architecture.

An ISO is just a copy from a CD and since everything is a file, you can do almost everything with it you could with the burned one.

Final word, the ISO is not password protected.

Bye
Py
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Gentoo ISO: A couple of noob questions Reply with quote

jbk wrote:
khayyam wrote:
you asked "what is the actual /efi/boot/filename.efi", that could mean *exactly* a number of things ... and includes the positing of its existance.

Did you not note that I had set the word filename in italics to underscore that it was the name itself that I wished to ascertain?

jbk ... if I had I wouldn't have asked what your intended meaning was, that, coupled with the fact that I'm 99% certain the minimal CD doesn't support UEFI, and so doesn't contain an efi executable, led me to suggest sysresccd ... which I know does. Your response "no, I meant exactly what I asked", as though the fact that it wasn't clear to me has more to do with my ability to comprehend your meaning than your ability to communicate it.

jbk wrote:
khayyam wrote:
I doubt it says "the CD", because the minimal iso's, as I said above, don't support UEFI booting. The boot disk used doesn't need to be a gentoo provided image it can be any boot disk ... as long as that particular boot disk provides whatever it is you need (UEFI, networking, etc) for installing (hence my pointing you at sysresccd).

And you have verified these claims?

I don't download the iso's every week so I can check, no, but I do enough reading of the various documentation and support mediums to think I would have probably have noticed if this had changed. Your pointing me at the handbook doesn't alter my view on the matter one iota, in fact, there is nothing in the section you pointed to which suggests that this is the case, and the counter evidence suggests the opposite, and that my "claims" are accurate.

jbk wrote:
khayyam wrote:
Then why not use sysresccd as the install medium?

Because I am fully aware of my ignorance and am NOT the author of the install CD; therefore I cannot make (nor proclaim) any assumptions that there could not be some inadvertent dependency in the install CD as to whether it was booted under UEFI or not. In all likelihood there is not, but I would prefer not to wander off into a field of guesses.

That doesn't make any sense, you started off with a somewhat rantish post about gentoo's claim to be "hand on", yet (inexplicably) locked. I answered that post and pointed you to an install medium that I know to work for UEFI, and now you want to avoid "guessing" about such things. Further, you use this as a follow on excuse when I ask you why not use what I'd suggested initially ... ok, so you don't know, but you're not helping yourself, and you're somewhat trying my patience.

jbk wrote:
khayyam wrote:
...an iso is a block device and is (loop) mounted. I see no reason why gentoo iso's would be password protected, once mounted its trivial to copy the content, modify, and 'mkisofs' ... and I've never had any issue myself doing so. I'm also not sure what a zip compression tool is doing with regards to an iso image, or what sort of thing its decompressing.

Noob though I be, I am quite confident that an ISO is a file, not a device. ISO files (which may or may not be password protected) contain an image of a CD, but in a specialized format which can be expanded by various programs (which may or may not have the word "ZIP" in their name) back into a 'normal' directory tree. ISOs can be the source to a CD 'burner' program, or can be used by other programs/modules to 'present' a loaded virtual CDROM to the OS.

I was speaking to how the iso is accessed, its treated like any disk, it contains a filesystem and to access that filesystem it has to be mounted. What your "program" is doing is mounting the device and (probably) copying the files onto the hardisk. Now, if it were password protected you wouldn't be able to mount it without that password, but once mounted you have access to all the files on the filesystem (and so can copy and do as you please with them ... including using mkisofs to build another iso from the copy). That being the case I don't know why your program prompts you for a passphrase, but if I were to weigh the chances of your program being at fault, or gentoo having some method to prevent the disk being copied, I would choose the former.

jbk wrote:
None of this contributes to my original questions, so it is time to end it.

Fair enough ... but you came with such questions "why are the ISOs password protected", etc.

best ... khay
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quilosaq
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience, the Gentoo minimal installation CD is not UEFI capable but the text of Handbook must be enhanced to clarify this point:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook_Talk:AMD64/Installation/Media#Booting_in_UEFI_mode
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jbk
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Gentoo ISO: A couple of noob questions Reply with quote

jbk wrote:
In regard to the Gentoo iso(s):

1. What is the actual /efi/boot/filename.efi (in regard to x64 architecture)?

2. Why do I have to ask this question? More to the point, why are the ISOs password protected, so I can't answer my own question, let alone do something if that filename is not /efi/boot/bootx64.efi (as I suspect)? I find it hard to envision a rationale for this when the purported purpose of Gentoo is "hands on"....


Having spent a delightful (?) afternoon beating my head against this brick wall, I can add the following:

The Gentoo ISO (for amd64) is not password protected - it's just 'strange' enough that Peazip (windows version) decides that it is. (Peazip has no problems with the System Rescue Cd ISO.) I found other (windows) ISO processing programs that can read the Gentoo ISO.

Because of this, I can say that:

a) the Gentoo ISO is structured for UEFI, (there is a /efi/boot/boot*.efi) but the filename is bootia32.efi when it should be bootx64.efi (never heard of a UEFI motherboard that only supports x86).

b) almost every (windows) ISO processing program that reads an ISO is hide-bound to remove any (BIOS-related) boot file and it is up to the user to get one restored and even if the resulting ISO does boot under BIOS, it is about 50KB smaller and the UEFI boot still fails although the filename has been changed to bootx64.efi.

Haven't yet even found a light in this tunnel...
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for grins, mind you, I mounted up a DVD image and checked for EFI

Using linux tools ...

Code:
mount -o loop livedvd-x86-amd64-32ul-20140826.iso /mnt/cd-img
ls -l /mnt/cd-img/efi/boot*


The result was "-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 849408 Aug 25 2014 bootx64.efi"

From the images download page ...

Quote:
The amd64 architecture is intended for use on AMD 64-bit CPUs as well as 64-bit Intel Pentium/Core/Xeon processors.


I do recognize that the DVD image I am viewing is probably not the same one you are viewing.
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