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axl
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
axl,

You don't have to use systemd to have Gnome.
Finding the HOWTO is left as an exercise for the reader.


I think i posted the link myself to the thread about the overlay for gnome WITH laptop tools and without systemd. if i didn't, i know about it. i looked at it.

still having difficulties on some systems without udev.

I am riding this anti-systemd wave just the same way I first got stuck on systemd wave. some things stick. some dont.

I will try, eventually, that overlay.

Have to pay the bills meanwhile :)
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

axl wrote:
i simply don't find it efficient in the way i run my stuff. i was an enlightenment man until gnome 3 hit. and i really like gnome 3. beyond politics and systemd, i really really like gnome-3. makes me feel comfortable. the upper left corner thingie, move between desktops with alt+fx. various key combos and things. the beautiful evolution. i really love evolution. just as much as (al)pine. and ofc, the terminal.

That's what makes Gentoo, Gentoo. Choice!
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steveL
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

axl wrote:
once you know what a topic is about, you could just go around it if you ... especially dont like me. i can see how some people might not like me. even i dont like me. :)

Heh, I have no ill-feeling toward you.

If I come across as disparaging sometimes, it's usually only the standard textual culture clash: I'm focussed on the technical, and ignore social niceties in text, where they have no relevance, that I would attend to semi-automatically in person.
At other times, I'm not disparaging the person, even when I question the validity, or more usually applicability, of statements someone might make.

Years of IRC, seeing so many people make the same "blunders" that I made in the first couple of years, and so many of their own, when they first get used to the medium, mean I don't make judgements about the person from their statements.
Everyone makes mistakes, everyone has bad-hair days, and everyone is liable to burnout (and needing a lie-down. ;)

Quite apart from which: it's always been at a remove, via nicknames and the computer screen, so an assessment of the person has never seemed like an option; only occasionally of the mind.
It's actually quite liberating only to have thought(s) to go by, even if we usually express ourselves imprecisely, and there is a fairly obvious aspect of self-aggrandisement to idle thought as opposed to physical, socio-political reality.

It was just the stream of posts answering yourself when I opened the thread, that made me think of a blog roll, and it's come up before with other, more egregiously verbose users, so I thought I'd see if you're okay with laughing at yourself (coders laugh at ourselves all day long.. ;)

Glad you're cool with it, and have fun :-)
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axl
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945 wrote:
axl wrote:
i simply don't find it efficient in the way i run my stuff. i was an enlightenment man until gnome 3 hit. and i really like gnome 3. beyond politics and systemd, i really really like gnome-3. makes me feel comfortable. the upper left corner thingie, move between desktops with alt+fx. various key combos and things. the beautiful evolution. i really love evolution. just as much as (al)pine. and ofc, the terminal.

That's what makes Gentoo, Gentoo. Choice!


on some levels. on others, i can understand why the anti-systemd folks are a bit upset.
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axl
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
axl wrote:
once you know what a topic is about, you could just go around it if you ... especially dont like me. i can see how some people might not like me. even i dont like me. :)

Heh, I have no ill-feeling toward you.

If I come across as disparaging sometimes, it's usually only the standard textual culture clash: I'm focussed on the technical, and ignore social niceties in text, where they have no relevance, that I would attend to semi-automatically in person.
At other times, I'm not disparaging the person, even when I question the validity, or more usually applicability, of statements someone might make.

Years of IRC, seeing so many people make the same "blunders" that I made in the first couple of years, and so many of their own, when they first get used to the medium, mean I don't make judgements about the person from their statements.
Everyone makes mistakes, everyone has bad-hair days, and everyone is liable to burnout (and needing a lie-down. ;)

Quite apart from which: it's always been at a remove, via nicknames and the computer screen, so an assessment of the person has never seemed like an option; only occasionally of the mind.
It's actually quite liberating only to have thought(s) to go by, even if we usually express ourselves imprecisely, and there is a fairly obvious aspect of self-aggrandisement to idle thought as opposed to physical, socio-political reality.

It was just the stream of posts answering yourself when I opened the thread, that made me think of a blog roll, and it's come up before with other, more egregiously verbose users, so I thought I'd see if you're okay with laughing at yourself (coders laugh at ourselves all day long.. ;)

Glad you're cool with it, and have fun :-)


It's just bits running around and hitting one another. As far as I can understand, that's all there is.

I was at times bored, and lacked someone to talk to about trying these things. If not you guys... certainly not anyone from my RL. They look at the black screen with random lines of text passing by like alien language.

At first I got caught in the systemd/antisystemd thread. Thought I try to see it from the other point of view. And thought I should share.

+beer. beer makes everything seem incoherent.
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of Evolution, is this normal for large emails to take forever to parse?

I send my rsync logs to mail. When I use evolution to imap to dovecot on my server that collects these logs, it takes a good 34 seconds to load that 3.7MB text rsync log email (on LAN so network speed shouldn't be an issue), on an i7. 100% CPU utilization. During this time the GUI is frozen - this is the "bad UI design" issue with Evolution.

Almost seems it has a O(n^2) algorithm or worse when parsing emails, a 300K rsync log takes about a half second or so to parse, which is still ridiculous on an i7. It's only Evolution that takes forever to parse, text clients like Alpine which I use more frequently seem OK.
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have amazing machines. alien like. and i send each night a simple plain text message from cron that does something similar to yours. i never checked it's actual size, but i expect it's around a few megs. maybe more then 10.

yes, it's normal on alien machine to choke a few secs before you can scroll through it.

i made another post. about my machines. it's basically a bunch of fast ssd's and lots of tmpfs ram things. still. sometimes u have to wait a bit.


i dont know exactly what is evolution doing during that time (when it's choked) but i know for a fact that when it's done, u can search inside the mail. scroll at natural speed. just have to have the patience.
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really have a slug of a machine either, even if it's getting old (see signature; and regular x86_64 kernel compiles are less than 5 minutes on this machine without distcc). I'd say that a 3.7MB text file should be processed near instantaneously, a 3.7MB gzip file uncompresses in less time than it takes to open that mail. Must be indexing of some sort, as yes, after it finishes, it scrolls fine. However it needs to go through the wait every time that mail is clicked, and since the UI is frozen, I'd call that a bug.

Probably need to submit a bug against Evolution upstream as this is a clear problem. After all, if a text client handles it instantaneously...

---

EDIT:

Looks like webkit-gtk is the slow routine. Evolution is using webkit-gtk-2.2:3, unfortunately I could not replicate this problem in Epiphany which uses webkit-gtk-2.9.5:4 ... Need to see if other programs linked against webkit-gtk-2.2:3 are b0rked as well...
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

axl wrote:
[on some levels. on others, i can understand why the anti-systemd folks are a bit upset.


Oh, I'm one of them! Wouldn't mind if systemd didn't keep trying to absorb everything else. Regarding choice, I was speaking regarding choice of interface and applications. I have no quarrel with Gnome3 without systemd. I just don't like it. You do. That's Gentoo choice.

Ediited for typos.
Editted again - systemd instead systems


Last edited by Tony0945 on Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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axl
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eccerr0r wrote:
I don't really have a slug of a machine either, even if it's getting old (see signature; and regular x86_64 kernel compiles are less than 5 minutes on this machine without distcc). I'd say that a 3.7MB text file should be processed near instantaneously, a 3.7MB gzip file uncompresses in less time than it takes to open that mail. Must be indexing of some sort, as yes, after it finishes, it scrolls fine. However it needs to go through the wait every time that mail is clicked, and since the UI is frozen, I'd call that a bug.

Probably need to submit a bug against Evolution upstream as this is a clear problem. After all, if a text client handles it instantaneously...

---

EDIT:

Looks like webkit-gtk is the slow routine. Evolution is using webkit-gtk-2.2:3, unfortunately I could not replicate this problem in Epiphany which uses webkit-gtk-2.9.5:4 ... Need to see if other programs linked against webkit-gtk-2.2:3 are b0rked as well...


uhm, there is no webkit-gtk:2.2 in portage. how old is you distro?
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

axl wrote:
eccerr0r wrote:
EDIT: Looks like webkit-gtk is the slow routine. Evolution is using webkit-gtk-2.2:3, unfortunately I could not replicate this problem in Epiphany which uses webkit-gtk-2.9.5:4 ... Need to see if other programs linked against webkit-gtk-2.2:3 are b0rked as well...

uhm, there is no webkit-gtk:2.2 in portage. how old is you distro?

axl ... the slots in eccerr0r post are :2, and :3, I think the "webkit-gtk-2.2:3" is just a typo (correct me if I'm wrong). I suspect the version is either 2.4.9 or 2.4.10 (both of which are the versions providing slot :3).

best ... khay
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah... I was reporting what was contained in the DEPENDS file that's stored in the database.

Currently slot 3 has webkit-gtk-2.4.10 on my system.
Slot 4 has 2.10.9 which is what epiphany is using.

I hate webkit-gtk. This thing takes forever to compile.

genlop -t webkit-gtk wrote:
Code:
     Thu May 12 12:52:29 2016 >>> net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.10.9
       merge time: 59 minutes and 46 seconds.

     Thu May 12 13:43:52 2016 >>> net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.4.10
       merge time: 51 minutes and 23 seconds.

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axl
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've had 7.9 mb mail the other day. u're right. it takes forever to open. dont know why. it was in plain text. something send from crond.

in other news, went back to systemd & gnome. sorry. :(


PS i'm really sorry. i want to hate systemd. but i can't. and it's mostly gnome. but not only. it's love it or hate it. and i can't hate it. sorry.


EDIT: my shameful long USE

USE="64bit 7zip R g15 lcd X Xaw3d a52 aac aacplus acl acpi activefilter addns admin adns aesicm aio all-modules alsa amavis amd64 amr amrnb amrwb animgif ao ap apache2 apm apng applet archive armadillo arpack arts artworkextra asf aspell assistant async atlas atm atmo audacious audio audiofile audioqueue audit auth-dns authfile auto-hinter autoipd automap automount ban bash-completion bash-logger bashlogger bcmath berkdb bidi big-tables bl blast bluetooth bluray bmp bonjour bookmarks boost branding bs2b bugzilla bzip2 bzr cairo calendar canusb capi caps case cdda cddb cdf cdio cdparanoia cdr cdrkit cg chappa chdir chm chromium chroot city clamav clamdtop clang clearpasswd cleartype cli cluster cma cmake collada colord colordiff connection-sharing conntrack console contrast contrib convert-mozilla-cookies copy corefonts coverage cpumining cracklib crypt cscope css ctrls ctype cue curl curlwrappers cursors custom-cflags custom-cpuopts custom-optimization cxx cyrus d3d daap daemon db dbase dbi dbm dbus dc1394 declarative deflate designer devhelp device-mapper dga dhclient dhcp dhcp-tools dhcpcd dia digitalradio dirac direct2d directx discard-path disk-partition diskio diskuse divine djbfft djvu dkim dmapi dns dos dot down-root downloads-monitor dri drm drmkms ds2490 ds9097 ds9097u dshow dtmf dts dv dvb dvd dvdr dvi dxva2 dynamicplugin dynload dynmasq eap-sim eap-tls editor eds egl elf emboss emf emotion enca encode epiphany equalizer esd ethumb evo excel exceptions exec exif expat experimental extensible extensions extra extra-tools faac faad fallback fam fastcgi fat fax fbcon fbdev fbosd fdk fdt ffmpeg fftw fileinfo filter firefox fits flac flash flashback flatfile flickr fluidsynth fontconfig fontforge foomaticdb fortran fortran95 fprint fpx freebox frei0r ftp fts fuse fusion fusiondale fusionsound g3dvl galago gallium gbm gcdmaster gcj gconf gd gdbm gdm gdu geany gedit geoip geoloc geolocation geonames geos gfortran ggi gif gimp git gl glade glamor gles gles1 gles2 glib glibc-compat20 glibc20-compat glide glitz glpk gme gml gmp gnome gnome-keyring gnome-online-accounts gnuplot gnutls gocr gphoto2 gpm gps grammar graphics graphtft grass grilo groupwise growl grp gs gsf gsl gsm gsmloc gstreamer gtk gtk2 gtk3 gudev h224 h281 h323 hal hardware-carrier harfbuzz hash hdaps hddtemp hdri headless help hfs hid2hci highlight hog hostip hscolour html http http-forms http-server httpd hvm hwdb iax ibus icap-client iceweasel icons iconv icq icu id3tag ide idea ident idled idn ieee1394 ifsession ifversion imagemagick imaging imap imlib imlib2 infinality inifile inkjar inotify input_control input_hub input_testpicture input_uvc int-quality intl introspection ipf-transparent iphone iproute2 iptc ipv6 irc irda iso ivr ixj jabber jack javascript jbig john joystick jp2k jpeg jpeg2k jpg json justify kaapi kate kdepim kdrive keymap kipi kpathsea kvm ladspa lame lapack laptop large-domain largeterminal latency_timing lcdfilter lcms ldb lensfun libass libffi libgda libkms libmpeg2 libmysqlclient libnotify libsamplerate libsecret libtar libtiger libv4l libvisual lid linsys live lm_sensors login logrotate lqr lua lzma lzo macosx macosx-audio macosx-dialog-provider mad mail maildir mailwrapper manual mapnik math matroska mbim mbox mcve md5sum mdnsresponder-compat meanwhile media-library memcache mercurial mfd-rewrites mhash mikmod milter minizip mkl mmap mms mmx mmxext mng mod modemmanager modminer modplug modules motif mount mozdom mozilla mp2 mp3 mp3rtp mp4 mpeg mpeg2 mpeg3 mpg mpg123 mplayer msg msn mta mtp mudflap multicore multilib multimedia multiuser musepack mvl mysql mysqli mythtv nas nautilus ncat ncurses ndiff neXt nemesi netboot netcdf nethack netlink netpbm network network-cron networking nextaw nfacct nfs nfsdcld nfsv41 nls nmap-update nntp nominatim nping nptl nsplugin nss ntfs ntfsdecrypt ntp numa numpy nut nv nvcontrol oav obex ocaml ocr ocrad octave ofa offensive offscreen ofono ogdi ogg omxil opcache openal opencl opencv openexr opengl openmp openntpd openvg openvpn openvz optimisememory opus osmesa oss ots output_autofocus output_file output_rtsp output_udp p2p pam pango parse-clocks parted passfile passwordsave pcap pccts pch pci pcmcia pcntl pcre pcre16 pcre32 pda pdf pdl2 pdo pf-transparent phar physfs physics pic pipechan pipelight pixman pkcs11 plasma playlist plazes plotutils plugins png pnm pocket podcast policykit posix postproc ppds ppp prediction preview-latex proj projectm pstricks pulseaudio pvr python q16 q32 q64 q8 qemu qhull qmi-newest qos qpak qq qt3support qt4 quicklaunch quicktime quota quotas radio rar raster ratio razor rdp readline readme real realtime recursion-limit remote remote-access rendering replication replytolist reports rewrite rfc4175 rle romio rpc rpi rrdcgi rrdtool rss rtc rtlsdr rtmp rtsp run-as-root s3tc sage sasl sawman sbc scanner schroedinger science scim screen script scripttools scrypt sdk sdl sdl-image sdlgfx seamonkey seccomp secure-delete semantic-desktop sendmail sendto sensord serial session sftp shaper sharedext sharedmem shine shmvideo shout sid sieve simplexml sip sipim sitemisc skins slang smart smi smime smp sms smtp smux sndfile sni snmp soap socialweb sockets softquota sound soundex soup speex spell sql sqlite srt srtp sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssl ssse3 startup-notification stats steamgames_defenders_quest steamgames_dwarfs steamgames_hammerwatch steamgames_journey_down steamgames_painkiller steamgames_shatter steamgames_source_engine steamgames_tf2 steamgames_trine2 steamgames_unwritten_tales stlport streaming subtitles subversion sudo suexec suid svg svm swat swfdec swig switcher syntax-check sysfs syslog systemd sysvipc szip t1lib tablet taglib targrey tbb tci tcl tcpd telepathy teletext telnet tesseract testprograms tex tex4ht texmacs tftp tga theora thesaurus thinkpad thunderbird tidy tiff timezone timidity tivo tk tls tokenizer tomboy toolame tools transmitter trayicon tremor truetype tslib tsmuxer tts tty-helpers twolame type3 ucd-compat udev udisks ukit ulog umfpack uml undi unicode unwind unzip upnp upnp-av upower urandom usb usbredir utempter utils uuid uvm v4l v4l2 vaapi vala vcd vcdx vde vdpau verify-file vhook vhost-net video video-file view views vim vim-pager vim-syntax virt-network virtual-users virtualbox visio vlm vnc vorbis vorbis-psy vpb vpnc vpx vroot vxml wad wav waveout wavpack wayland wayland-compositor wddx web webdav webdav-serf webp weston wext wideband wifi wimax win32codecs wingdi wma-fixed wmf wordperfect wps www wxwidgets x264 xa xanim xattr xcap xcb xchat xcomposite xdg xdmf2 xext xfce xforms xfs xft xim xine xinerama xkb xml xmlpatterns xmlreader xmlrpc xmlwriter xmp xnest xorg xosd xpm xprint xps xrandr xscreensaver xsl xslt xtended xulrunner xv xvfb xvid xvmc xwayland yahoo yahoo-geo yaml youtube zanim zero-penalty-hit zip zlib zoran zsh-completion zvbi crossdev aes avx avx2 fma3 mmx mmxext popcnt sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 d3d9 openmax hidpi hotwording widevine aalib libcaca compat map cpudetection weston ssh1 extraengine
-hardened -ldap -kde -libproxy -tracker -lvm -networkmanager -cups"
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone should bring funroll-loops back.
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axl
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
Someone should bring funroll-loops back.


why? aren't most distros compiled with so many options?

tbh, this is my desktop. and it can carry. it's a haswell 5820k. 32Gb ddr4 3k ram. x99 mobo. intel 750 series ssd. it can carry anything. without even breaking a sweat. my rasberrry pi's dont have this many use flags. it's true.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm only posting my many useflags because i got to research about them recently. and there are flags that you would want to get rid of. in some environments. and some you would want to keep in others. i've been carrying the same useflag since 2001. improve it. change it here and there. for that machine. for that machine.

i have standards. like for sql... this use. i dont know every single flag i am carrying since 2001. or mail (i use cyrus). or apache. or other types of servers. proxy and dns's and others. it's just a type of server. i copy the USE. change what i know has to be changed.

recently, since now there's a wiki, i started looking up, use by use. some are weird (in my usage), some are spot on.

back in 2001 there wasn't a wiki...
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

axl wrote:
i'm only posting my many useflags because i got to research about them recently. and there are flags that you would want to get rid of. in some environments. and some you would want to keep in others. i've been carrying the same useflag since 2001. improve it. change it here and there. for that machine. for that machine.

i have standards. like for sql... this use. i dont know every single flag i am carrying since 2001. or mail (i use cyrus). or apache. or other types of servers. proxy and dns's and others. it's just a type of server. i copy the USE. change what i know has to be changed.

recently, since now there's a wiki, i started looking up, use by use. some are weird (in my usage), some are spot on.

back in 2001 there wasn't a wiki...


eix-test-obsolete will tell you about redundant flags and obsolete flags
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i still think, in my experience, the hardest thing i ever had to do in linux was the first time i did my first cyrus/postfix/amavis/spamassassin/postgrey/mysql/horde complete install.

back then, we had servers for each task. for spam. for postfix. for cyrus. for apache. for mysql. each different machines.

those flags I knew. i switched from slackware to gentoo because i was tired to compile stuff actually manually. on so many types of machines.

now, all i have is westmere and haswell. back then... i had a large array of weird intel and amd stuff.

a single nehalem now... does all that array did back then. it's funny. the use flag never was an issue.

include everything, filter out later what u dont need ... turned out to me now. that "later" moment.

for systems like pi, it's nothing. u can't exclude anything.

for servers... u can't exclude anything.

from desktop. i am unwilling to exclude anything.

maybe one. here or there. tony got me something to google. thanks tony.

but since i discovered wiki for useflags recently i been knee deep in make.confs files.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P.,

funroll-loops
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am really struggling to think of a scenario where anyone would need the ability to edit 256bpp [sic] images on the same machine they use for games...
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
I am really struggling to think of a scenario where anyone would need the ability to edit 256bpp [sic] images on the same machine they use for games...


the simple answer is incompetence. better to have support then to not have it.

i'm assuming this is one flag (which i cannot identify in my make file) that i should not have. i am assuming it's a kind of graph file i am carrying because of gimp or imagemagick. prolly something i felt i should be able to open if someone sends that type of file to me.

i have no problem in admitting is pure incompetence.


certainly nothing to struggle with.

EDIT: also wished i played games. i did play games. I played anarchy online for 7 years. made a bot for it. maintained it on a gentoo server for 2 years. i did that too. but not now. i gave up games 5 years ago.


EDIT2: though some flags could be bacause of wine. true.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

on the other hand, clearly other people here dont use cyrus-imap. which i find weird tbh.

or maybe other people dont run into the same type of trouble i run into.

for 2 years i stayed with cyrus-imapd because i couldn't figure out why cyrus-imap-admin would not install on version 2.5.


turns out... it's a flag thing. have to turn ON perl flag to get the cyradm util that you would normally get from cyrus-imap-admin. i'm still pissed there was no changelog where i could find that out.


had to find out on my own. that's why i'm quite excited about this wiki use flag thing. i am. really really am.

this stuff, i shoulda known. it's why i switched to gentoo. 2 years i used only cyrus-imapd-2.4 because i thought u couldn't get cyradm in 2.5. made my own tool in php.

2 days ago, i found out, i just had to enable the perl flag.


python and perl are 2 flags u dont want to enable globally. u just dont.

and we get to package.use. and mine... is always bigger then my make.conf. so much bigger. and more complicated.

i am starting to dislike this.
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axl
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Location: Romania

PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

one thing i am noticing more an more these days is that u can't have a system with a clean package.use.

none of my systems have a clean package.use. i cannot rely simply on USE. there are exceptions. and exceptions to exceptions.
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depontius
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Joined: 05 May 2004
Posts: 3389

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

axl wrote:
on the other hand, clearly other people here dont use cyrus-imap. which i find weird tbh.



Long long ago I ran Cyrus, and I spent some time with UWash. Then at some point I moved to Dovecot and have been there ever since. The changes were so far in the past that I don't remember why I did so, any more.
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saellaven
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 526

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

axl wrote:

in other news, went back to systemd & gnome. sorry. :(


PS i'm really sorry. i want to hate systemd. but i can't. and it's mostly gnome. but not only. it's love it or hate it. and i can't hate it. sorry.


and therein lies one of the political issues... the tying of gnome (largely funded by redhat) to systemd (largely funded by redhat), with the removal of the previously existing code that allowed it to work without systemd, with the primary objective of forcing people to adopt systemd and, by extension, redhat (where systemd is the binding layer to rule all distros. making other distros essentially redhat tweaks).

Fortunately for me, gnome 3 was bad enough that I switched desktops before gnome became tied to systemd.
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