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ysbeer
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:17 am    Post subject: My systemd failure Reply with quote

I really wanted to get systemd working with KDE plasma on Gentoo testing ~amd64 and luks lvm disk encryption,
But sadly i ran into so many problems, that i felt like going back to OpenRC wich seems more rocksolid,

However now i feel kinda like on Gentoo OpenRC i am left behind on other Linux distrobutions wich most of them use systemd.

I would like to know what are youre thoughts about systemd on gentoo testing versus OpenRC
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lexflex
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:53 am    Post subject: Re: My systemd failure Reply with quote

Hi ysbeer,

ysbeer wrote:

I would like to know what are your thoughts about systemd on gentoo testing versus OpenRC


Dangerous question..... You can probably try to search these forums to get an idea about peoples thoughts about systemd vs openrc, but beware..... ;-)
( or you would like a new thread with a summary of the discussions? That might be rather hard to achieve.....)

I just use openrc and it works great !
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ysbeer
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, i decided to stick to gentoo stable with openrc because of the whole stability idea untill the Gentoo Live DVD starts running on Systemd, just because i encounter a bit too much problems on systemd like udev and lvm luks for example.
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ian.au
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: My systemd failure Reply with quote

ysbeer wrote:
I really wanted to get systemd working with KDE plasma on Gentoo testing ~amd64 and luks lvm disk encryption,
But sadly i ran into so many problems, that i felt like going back to OpenRC wich seems more rocksolid,

However now i feel kinda like on Gentoo OpenRC i am left behind on other Linux distrobutions wich most of them use systemd.

I would like to know what are youre thoughts about systemd on gentoo testing versus OpenRC


On the 'other distributions' to which you refer you don't get a choice, you get systemd. On Gentoo you get a choice, I'll leave it to you to decide which is the more advanced concept.

Read up on systemd here https://ewontfix.com/14/ which is a reasonably fair analysis of systemd, and decide if systemd is compatible with your needs.

There are a ton of posts on the forums about systemd vs OpenRC - look them up, you should research the forums before posting questions in any case, but particularly on this subject - I don't think there's much that could be added to the systemd debate here.
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GFCCAE6xF
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't just rely on these forums for research on systemd, some other good external "reasonably fair" reviews can be found on https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/systemd and http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html

FWIW I've been using systemd on all my machines since 2011 without issues, admittedly I had more issues on Gentoo than other distros which is kind of ironic but no show-stoppers. I cannot speak for the state/quality of systemd in Gentoo right now since I have't used Gentoo in a while in a way that requires an init system.
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ian.au
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GFCCAE6xF wrote:
Don't just rely on these forums for research on systemd, some other good external "reasonably fair" reviews can be found on https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/systemd and http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html

FWIW I've been using systemd on all my machines since 2011 without issues, admittedly I had more issues on Gentoo than other distros which is kind of ironic but no show-stoppers. I cannot speak for the state/quality of systemd in Gentoo right now since I have't used Gentoo in a while in a way that requires an init system.


Well GFCCAE6xF, all my Gentoo Gnome desktops run on systemd, and I can confirm they've run flawlessly for probably the last three years, the year before that, not so much - anyway, so sorry to be in furious agreement there.

I guess it might seem strange, but I use it despite the entirely valid (and so far unaddressed) issues raised in the ewontfix link. I therefore do so with awareness that some combination of scope-creep, corporate upstream and clear potential for proprietary lock-in down the track may see it incompatible / broken / forked or pulled from here at some time. Maybe not too, who knows?

I don't know that Lennarts blog could be considered an unbiased external 'review' but he's at least sufficiently honest in that 2013 post to admit that at least half the 'myths' he set out to debunk actually had substantial basis in fact. :)

Cheers,
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Logicien
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have install Gentoo amd64 on a Thinkpad T420 laptop and on a HP Compaq 6000 Pro MT desktop recently from the stage 3 tarball using ArchLinux already install on each as the host. Now I boot using Systemd on both but I keep Openrc on each for choice.

What I did is to add the systemd USE flag globally in make.conf. Than I emerge gentoo-systemd-integration package who force me to uninstall eudev and udev packages to succeed. I stay with the default/linux/amd64/13.0 profile of the stage3 installation I choose to be able to use Openrc because, switching to any Systemd profile will remove packages needed by Openrc.

So it is fairly possible to use Systemd with Gentoo with or without Openrc. Maybe you can succeed if you start with the amd64 keyword instead of ~amd64. I just use ~amd64 per package need in this setup but not globally. Of course my gentoo-sources are configure to support both Openrc and Systemd.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For our newer participants we have the 43rd page of The Politics of systemd Part 2 if you wish to discuss the political aspects of systemd. The first 30 pages are in part 1, which is linked from the first post in the thread above.

Users wishing to continue the discussion on technical aspects of systemd may continue here.

Flames will get this thread locked, like so may before it.
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ysbeer
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thanks, i will not ask for the political state of systemd versus openrc, however i have one last question;

Will the Gentoo Live DVD ever switch from running OpenRC to Systemd ?

* i did not google the awnser yet
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Jaglover
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ysbeer wrote:
Ok thanks, i will not ask for the political state of systemd versus openrc, however i have one last question;

Will the Gentoo Live DVD ever switch from running OpenRC to Systemd ?

* i did not google the awnser yet


You should ask will stage3 ever come with systemd as default.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ysbeer,

There is an experimental stage3 provided with systemd.

Never is a long time, so I won't say there will never be a Gentoo LiveDVD using systemd.
There is, as yet, no compelling reason to switch from openRC to systemd.
Binary distros doing it does not make it 'right'. In any case, there is no universal right.

The build of the liveDVD is open source, feel free to make a liveDVD that uses systemd.
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