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Shouldn't use flags be set before updating @world?
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lypant
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:47 am    Post subject: Shouldn't use flags be set before updating @world? Reply with quote

Hello,

That's my first post here. I have few years of experience with Arch and now I decided to go gain even more control over my systems by trying Gentoo...
I've already done first successful installation of Gentoo, almost blindly following the handbook - just to get something working.
Now I am trying to understand it better.

At the moment I am preparing x86 installation and the handbook says to perform steps in such order (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Base):
1. choose a profile
2. update @world set
3. set use flags

Q1: Shouldn't steps 2 and 3 be swapped?
I am preparing X-less environment and I think by disabling X support (among others) in use flags before updating @world set could speed up installation considerably.

Q2: Which profile is better for X-less setup, "default" or "desktop"?
I am using old PC and want to get console-only experience with it, however it will be used as a desktop, not a server.
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fedeliallalinea
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: Shouldn't use flags be set before updating @world? Reply with quote

lypant wrote:
Q1: Shouldn't steps 2 and 3 be swapped?
I am preparing X-less environment and I think by disabling X support (among others) in use flags before updating @world set could speed up installation considerably.

Yes, but if you use profile default/linux/x86/13.0 use flag X is not setted (you can see default profile settings in /usr/portage/profiles/releases/13.0)

lypant wrote:
Q2: Which profile is better for X-less setup, "default" or "desktop"?
I am using old PC and want to get console-only experience with it, however it will be used as a desktop, not a server.

default/linux/x86/13.0 is the way for a X-less system
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lypant
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your response.

Q2 is answered now, thanks. I will set up X-less system based on profile default/linu/x86/13.0

Regaring Q1, if I understood correctly, in my use case the order does not matter, since choosing profile default/linu/x86/13.0 will not use X flag anyway.

But in general - if someone wants to adjust use flags of the chosen profile, setting them before updating @world set could speed up the process (and in case of slower machines this might be quite noticable speedup).
If it is so, is there any particular reason why wiki suggests reversed order?
Is wiki approach more general/safe for wide audience?
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fedeliallalinea
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lypant wrote:
Regaring Q1, if I understood correctly, in my use case the order does not matter, since choosing profile default/linu/x86/13.0 will not use X flag anyway.

Correct

lypant wrote:
But in general - if someone wants to adjust use flags of the chosen profile, setting them before updating @world set could speed up the process (and in case of slower machines this might be quite noticable speedup).
If it is so, is there any particular reason why wiki suggests reversed order?
Is wiki approach more general/safe for wide audience?

I don't know the reason, but I think is because if someone set many use flags the updating of @world take many time.
Usually I set up use flags and a X profile when I have a gentoo that boot correctly.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is Gentoo. Feel free to use any documentation as reference, no need to follow to the letter.
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mv
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lypant wrote:
But in general - if someone wants to adjust use flags of the chosen profile, setting them before updating @world set could speed up the process (and in case of slower machines this might be quite noticable speedup).
If it is so, is there any particular reason why wiki suggests reversed order?
Is wiki approach more general/safe for wide audience?

In general, it is advisable to set the USE-flags before updating world. However, in the first installation there are some traps: Certain USE-flags can cause dependency circles or other bad issues if some basic programs are not yet installed. If you know what you are doing, you can shortcut quite a lot, but for "save and simple" instructions for a newbie who has not yet even toolchain matching has USE-flags, the order of the wiki is simpler to describe and does not need many exceptions. (Though actually there are some exceptions, since dropping certain useflags after compilation can cause issues, too...)
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lypant
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:14 pm    Post subject: Shouldn't use flags be set before updating @world? Reply with quote

Thank you for your comments.

mv has posted explanation I was hoping for; the subject is more clear to me now.
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Logicien
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to say, before coming back again to Gentoo, in a previous installation after untar the minimal stage3, I did an emerge -sync followed by an emerge @world using all default setup on amd64 keyword. It fail at some points.

So being sure that the default installation allow you to succeed an upgrade before personnalise Gentoo is not a bad idea.
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russK
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another not bad idea, after all of the updating of USE and update @world, (as it says in the emerge output messages) do an 'emerge --depclean --ask', if you are dropping features there are likely some packages that can be removed, and it may not be obvious to a newbie (or even a veteran) that conflicts arising later can be easily avoided.
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Roman_Gruber
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not read the full post.

Just a few lines at start.

My opinion. For generic X86 based boxes

Choose profile,

choose ~amd64 for hardware up to 2-3 years old
set experimental useflag for gentoo-sources, enable compiler flag for architecture
set minimal useflags
get a basic installation running, including the bootloader, compiler, toolchain, network => emerge @ system

get basic x-server running with something small, or just basic x-server

than emerge a binary browser to move on ..

slowly install needed packages. not the full bloat. Install what you really need, adapt useflags accordingly.

REmember, installing bloat introduces circular dependencies, increase time for updating your box, increase disk space, increase backup disc space, makes thing unmaintainable. Packages should be installed when tehy are needed. useflags should be set when they are needed

Additional

USE LVM or LVM+LUKS
Think about how to backup, where to store the data, when to backup
Write notes, so a backup, re/installation is faster on another box
Run a recent kernel, nothing outdated

--

Without a proper toolchain, up to date system worldset i would not even dare to run emerge @world. It causes too many issues with our package manager.

--

Choose your init / initramfs wisely (Hidden advise)
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