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put kernel in "boot" partition which I have'nt got.
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Sabongayam8
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: put kernel in "boot" partition which I have'nt got Reply with quote

Split from Do I need GRUB2 if it's installed in another distro? --pjp

:D

It does sound like my answer is here... but I might need a little more input as to what to do.

I've come back to Gentoo after years. I've hung around the edges. I really managed an install in 6 hours around 2010.

I liked it but still hadn't learned to manage config files after updates. I will be here a lot trying to gain an understanding of that.

I "searched" the forum rather than try to post a new thread 1st.

So here's my setup.

On 2 NUC Intels... one NUC6CAYH & the other NUC6i7KYK. I have multiboot Linux installs. Absolutely no windoz. I haven't a license to any and fortunately have no need of it for my uses.

At the moment I'm aiming my 1st Gentoo install at the NUC6CAYH. Because for the oddest reason except my Sparky Linux Debian, every thing that installed fine on the NUC6i7KYK did not install or in most cases boot up live on the NUC6CAYH. Go figure. It left me several spaces I'd set up for Linux free!

In truth my preferred distros are Debian, just familiar with it and Gentoo.

I have tried due to time constraints mostly the LAZY way with Gentoo based distros.

They fail in the end because of settings you're often fighting to make it do what you want and settings you may be unaware of because you didn't set it up.

I tried this time and it was absolutely frustrating. Sabayon with some type of installer that doesn't seem to want to work with the partitions I have there already.

Calculate that is now so heavily forcing or locking you into their setup and Calculate overlay that at a glance undoing it all to attempt making it behave as just gentoo is more work than an install... plus it refused to sync after install?

I read somewhere that I can try doing the install of gentoo in parts or stages so as to stretch out the time management. (Busier than usual at this time and just have a bit of time on weekends to try the install)

It's like Debian. If I learn to manage it properly then it'll be here on my devices for a long while.

Back to my simple question.

I just bought the NUCS. They are my 1st EFI machines. My still working laptop is still using BIOS.

I have the typical Live installs that put "boot' in /boot/

After building the kernal... in the installation manual we're supposed to put it in the "boot" partition which I have'nt got.

So can I put it in the /mnt/Gentoo/boot ? (guess I should make that.)

Or

From what I read here I could put it in one of the existing /boot of my installs such as Debian or something?

I'm not really clear. So that's why I'm waiting for a reply to this before I move forward.

In addition, what about using the Gentoo Live DVD as my live media for installation?

Later from this it seems I needn't bother installing grub as I can update the grub that's booting all the others.

What if I use REFind? Anyone use this with gentoo? Though I guess it should be OK. Any comments from those with experience with it will be appreciated.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Similar question as this topic Reply with quote

Sabongayam8 wrote:
What if I use REFind? Anyone use this with gentoo? Though I guess it should be OK. Any comments from those with experience with it will be appreciated.
[/color]

There are lots of setup options for refind. In my setup, the efi loader just loads refind which boots the latest kernel. If that one has a problem, I just use "touch" to advance the date of an earlier kernel. But I do know that refind can boot windows and/or multiple linuces by menu. Look at the refind homepage. I can't say how to do it but I know it has the capability.
I only boot gentoo and with the setup I have I don't have to ediit any file when I recompile a kernel or install a new one.
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DONAHUE
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO the best install media is System Rescue CD on a USB flash drive.
The best boot manager is rEFInd.
The best boot loader is EFI stub kernel, the kernel itself.

Notes: A UEFI computer running in UEFI mode needs an EFI Systems Partition (ESP);
only one ESP is required;
having more than one ESP may cause confusion,
the UEFI can function as a boot manager;
The ESP can store other boot managers, boot loaders, utiliies, and links to other locations on the disk(s);

I have a rEFInd that I have not updated since 2012 on an ESP that I have not mounted since 2012. That rEFInd finds choices among EFI stub kernels that I update almost every time a new gentoo-sources or git-sources kernel appears. My maintenance load is limited to making new kernels and deleting old ones.

Various Gentoo documents specify/suggest a variety of mount points for the ESP on the occasions when it must be mounted to make changes to it. As long as you and the program that will be making the changes know where the ESP is mounted, any mount point may be used.
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Sabongayam8
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your experience with REFind. What I need to know now is where or how to set up my gentoo 'boot' here as my setup doesn't correspond to the manual.

I have no boot partition.

Mounting the boot partition

Now that the new environment has been entered, it is necessary to create and mount the /boot partition. This will be important when it is time to compile the kernel and install the bootloader:
root #mkdir /boot
root #mount /dev/sda2 /boot

What I have in mind to do then is this;

Mounting the boot partition

root #mount /dev/sda4 /mnt/gentoo (The empty partition I wish to install to)
root #mkdir /boot
root #cd /mnt/gentoo/root

so that it'll be the same setup as the current installs and the boot files will go there.
possibly I should then cd to /mnt/gentoo before the mkdir command... :oops:

This should work then and as others in this post commented I can use the Grub that boots the others. Update it so it finds the Gentoo install.

Have I got that right?

Mostly working with Grub 2 and EFI is new to me... having had an older machine for some time.
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DONAHUE
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also have no boot partition. Gave it up about 2006.
I have a boot directory provided by the standard stage 3 gentoo install and expansion.
I have lived with only a root partition and a swap partition since 2006 on my legacy bios systems, root partition, swap partition, and EFI Systems Partition on UEFI systems since 2012. Swap is probably superfluous for me as memory and disk(s) are large.
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Last edited by DONAHUE on Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Split from Do I need GRUB2 if it's installed in another distro? since this isn't about Grub.

I haven't used EFI yet, but I think what they're trying to say is use an EFI system partition, which is a fat32 partition.

I don't see a reference in the install guide which clarifies if it is mounted as /boot, or how you place a kernel for EFI. Seems like this could be a documentation bug.
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Jaglover
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look out, I have one NUC and it has 32 bit UEFI. Although the box itself is 64 bit. I ended up putting it in CSM mode. Yet it did not boot until I created fake MBR in otherwise GPT disk and set the boot flag on it. Damn Intel.
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Sabongayam8
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Jaglover:

May I inquire as to which NUC you've got?

I have read a lot of similar issues such things. Both of these are
Generation 6 NUCS. I updated the EFI to latest on both before
Installing anything. I was very concerned I'd struggle with the
NUC6i7KYK but it seems to be the easiest to work with.

The NUC6CAYH is just a Celeron 2 core entry level unit.

I use it in class because I won't touch Windoz in China! They're after
all expert at hacking it abs pirating it. Not to mention using these
School computers that haven't any virus protection at all gives you
a wonderful list ???? of viruses on your USB at the end if a class let
alone the end of the day. :cry: I also stopped using Windoz around
2007 when I switched to Linux and just hate the interface. Not familiar
with it.

Back to point. I was very surprised. They do all arm to behave differently.
Intel is foolish having these cranked out if some dumb China factory.
I went through a bit of troubleti be sure I got REAL NUCS here, not done fake
knock off stuff. I actually got fake knock off RAM when I got the NUC6CAYH.
They all have made in China a stamped on them.

As I've installed 2 Linux distros on the NUC6CAYH I guess I may have avoided
your issue. Have you updated your EFI? Have they fixed that foolishness for yours?


@pjp

Yes, that's why I was a bit confused but according to what it's telling me about
where to put the kernel and boot info after I compile a kernel is how I cane up with my idea ????.

Others replies have helped clarify it for me further.

It might be useful to have more clarification on that. Arty 1st I also thought it was referring to the ESP partition but doesn't seem to be from I'm reading. Now back to the manual until I'm stumped again. :oops:

I always read the whole thing through at least 2x before trying the install. That's how I did it last time.


@DONAHUE

From what you've said, thanks for the tips on using EFI by the way, the stage 3 will already have
that /boot/ directory in it so I needn't create one at all. Just point to it & put my kernel and boot stuff there? Correct? :)
Your recommend the System rescue DVD. I was certainly going to use USB. dd command is alright to get System recscue to USB?
Is System Rescue GUI? I probably should get a new one. I read a bug about it not booting EFI. That's been fixed?



@Tony0945:

Thanks for the input. I read about rEFIND and wanted to try it. Everyone's recommendation of it says it's a good thing to use
If multibooting. I did read the man page ???? of rEFIND but some times it goes a bit over my head as I am still getting used to the differences
using EFI over BIOS. Supposed to be themes for rEFIND but after reading the manual still not quite sure yet how to apply them. :P


Thank you all for your replies! Also your time ⌚!

I apologize for any really really bad typos you may encounter. I'm using a mobile device. The email ???? alerted me to replies so I just opened
In the browser here.

On to the next part of the manual until I get stuck again. :D
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Jaglover
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NUC5CPYB, I really do not care how it boots, it is always on, I use it as a Kodi frontend. Consumes less than 10 W.
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DONAHUE
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is System Rescue GUI? -- Yes, there is a boot command option for gui or you can run startx after reaching the CLI. The GUI allows you to run the install terminal side by side with a browser window during the install; allows cut and paste of commands and ready reference.
sysresccd/usb was the first UEFI capable install media I could find back in 2012. The gentoo minimal install media still does not support UEFI boot; I suspect the commkents you read were about the gentoo minimal install media not supporting UEFI boot and suggesting sysresccd as the fix. Do remember to enter the UEFI and check that secure boot is disabled and UEFI mode enabled and the UEFI sysresccd/usb is selected as first boot choice.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just google
Quote:
forums.gentoo tony0945 refind
and the first thing you will find is my own adventure with reFind, the problems I had and their solution. I think you will find it instructive.
Hopefully, it will guide you in installing on your computer. Once you have it booting, you can work on customization.

EDIT: I see that I had much help from Jaglover and Khayyam. Thank you, Jaglover.
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Sabongayam8
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@DONAHUE:

Got it. I believe you're correct about that being the case with minimal Gentoo install being the one not booting in EFI. My mistake.

Thanks for the tip. I'll grab the Recsue DVD. I hadn't downloaded a choice yet. It's much smaller than Gentoo Live DVD. :P


@Tony0945:

1 search coming up! I read an article about multibooting and that's where I ran across rEFIND. I have no personal experience with it and though I read up on it and it looks like an excellent tool... it is why I'm still letting the Grub of whatever I installed last manage everything. Short of entering the device boot order at start & selecting something... :wink:
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Sabongayam8
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@DONAHUE:

I also have all the secure boot stuff off! Actually despite Jaglover's issues with his NUC5 series, I came across the NUCS as recommended for
Linux as they come without an OS except specials like the NUC6CAYS which has Windoz on 30gb of internal storage similar to but not quite SSD.

I checked that 1st thing of course and all the secure boot stuff is off by default and I've got Linux installed on them all already.

3 distros here though 2 are debian. 1 for running my PS2 emulator and this one for doing basic work, etc. The other is an experiment with something RPM to see how it also works as a daily driver for working on. I usually just go into boot order and select the USB to start and select UEFI.

Current systems alread installed as UEFI as well. :)


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