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Ramirez987
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:32 pm    Post subject: I am stuck at installing Gentoo. Reply with quote

Hi All,

For a while I am trying to install Gentoo on my old laptop:

-2.5 RAM
-Core2Duo 1.66
-120GB disk
-some intel 950 GPU

I am downloadung the x86 Linux, because it is propably a way to go with this computer.
Then the network. It works. The partition? What should I choose? Propably the MBR, I don't have the UEFI.
I have trouble with scheme. I think I should go manual tells, but what filesystems would be best?

I can understand the compile options, but the kernel gives me a headache. Could you please tell me what options to choose? One I have took too many and I have used all disk space. All I want is a simple machine with a possibility to use internet, play some music and mayby watch some old movies.

Thanks in advance.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramirez987,

With 2.5G RAM, you should do an amd64 install to get the best out of it.

120GB disk is plenty.
You will need to prune distfiles, logs and kernels from time to time but a working desktop will fit into 40G.

Your intel 950 GPU works.

X86 will work but the kernel will need to use the HiMem tricks to use all your RAM. Don't start over just to move to 64 bit.

Choose an MSDOS partition table. GPT mostly works with BIOS but not always and its a complication you don't need.
Make /boot 128Mb
Make swap 2.5G in case you want to use suspend to RAM.
Make the rest of the drive root. Thats a good get you going layout.

Use ext2 on /boot and ext4 on root. They are well tested filesystems.

For your kernel, use genkernel. That way you can delay learning about kernel configurations.
Code:
genkernel all
will get you the same kernel options as the liveCD uses, so most things work.

Expect to fine tune the kernel for wifi and Xorg, when you get to that stage.
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PrSo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramirez987,
as Neddy sad, but with two amendments,
I would choose ~amd64, and trim down the kernel drivers with "make menuconfig".
Code:
lspci -nnk
and
Code:
lsusb


There are 8 digit numbers (xxxx:xxxx) with each device.
Search them through LKDDB (Linux Kernel Driver Database), and enable those drivers.

https://cateee.net/sources/lkddb/

Choose the database correlated with kernel you prefer to install.

Rest depends on your knowledge about cpu that you have (like a hardware support for encryptions and etc.)

Code:
cat /proc/cpuinfo
and http://www.cpu-world.com/,

also Gentoo wiki - like ethernet, wifi, modems etc.

Rest will be a fine tuning.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PrSo,

~amd64 can break from time to time. It does for me.
Its a risk best avoided by someone dipping a toe into Gentoo

What you said about the kernel is required but not sufficient.
For instance,
Code:
lspci -nnk
will show that you need ahci, or whatever, as your hard drive chipset driver.
It will say nothing about also needing SCSI and SCSI Disk support.

Code:
genkernel all
is certainly subopimal as kernels go.
It will almost certainly work too, so it spreads the learning curve.

There is time enough to learn to do a lean mean kernel after the system is running and you have a known working kernel in the grub menu, so that when you new kernel won't boot, its only a menu choice to get back in to sort it out.
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krinn
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
With 2.5G RAM, you should do an amd64 install to get the best out of it.

I disagree with you NeddySeagon there :)

* 2.5G is below the 4G limit, so 32bits will be happy without any trick
* 32bits handle memory faster than 64bits (of course the address space must be hold in a 32bits pointer, something all natural for a 32bits then, and that's the idea behind x32)
* 64bits data size is twice the 32bits ones (again x32 idea), so 2.5G is plenty ram for 32bits and not really half, but really low for a 64bits system.
* 64bits will allow him to run faster multimedia and high computation software than 32bits ; you seriously think that's what user will do with a core2 and 2.5G of ram?


Last edited by krinn on Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PrSo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neddy with all respect,

I don't think that laptop with a core 2 duo has scsi hdd or other devices with that interface (but i could be wrong), genkernel is suboptimal, but from my experience with a hardware the best learning curve would be put this laptop "into the deep end of the pool" way (gentoo untuched config has enough devices enabled by default than needed beside those from "lspci -nnk" and "lsusb" - of course I have in mind that this is an old laptop, as Ramirez987 wrote).

Sure, staying on the safe side would be the "genkernel" and "amd64" way.

EDIT:

@krinn
Yes, amd64 binaries are a lot bigger and I think that even if you put on that machine 4 GB of ram (which would be maximum i suppose) there would be available only ~3.6 because of Intel's GPU, but I could be wrong tough. We should ask Ramirez987 about more details.
BTW I haven't check, but were the Spectre and meltdown mitigations backported to x86 already?
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn,

The break even point between 32 bit and 64 bit installs is about 2G RAM.
To use >1G RAM, the kernel needs Himem support.
It does not get into the slowdown that >4G gets you when you must use PAE but having to set Himem has a performance impact too.

PrSo,

I'm fine with agreeing to differ.
You are correct that Ramirez987s laptop does not have any real scsi hardware. However for a long time now, about kernel 2.6.25, all the HDD drivers have been united in the SCSI stack. This means you need all the layers, not just the bottom layer identified by lspci. Even IDE drives are SCSI now.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
* 64bits data size is twice the 32bits ones (again x32 idea), so 2.5G is plenty ram for 32bits and not really half, but really low for a 64bits system.
I ran a 64bit system for years on 2G before upgrading to 4G. Yes, builds were very slow. I built the machine for my grandson and all he ran was firefox(v3) on Gnome2 and some homework with Abiword. I still have an old k-6 32bit recently upgraded from 3x128M to 3x256M. I don't run a GUI but the machine dual boots with NT 4.0, so, yes, 32bits is better for low mem, but 64bit is doable and good to have if you later upgrade RAM as I did with that 2G system. The k-6 will always be 32bit because that's all it has. RAM is not expensive any more.

I concur that kernel building is something best left to later for a newbie. After the machine is working, he can start trimming the kernel with genkernel --menuconfig by removing support for filesystems and hardware he doesnt have and never will.
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Ramirez987
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

Thanks for all your answers. To be exact: my laptop is old Fujitsu Siemens AmiloPi1505.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramirez987,

It seems that you have a Intel T2300 CPU
That Intel specification says its 32 bit only.

That settles the 64 bit/32 bit discussion.
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Ramirez987
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all your answers. It is a little bit more clear to me. Yesterday I couldn't find a pendrive that will be accepted. For some reasons my laptop rejects most of them and only old 2GB + Gentoo minimal seems to work(never stuck at this step before! :) )

Anyway:

-I have chosen MBR partition table (fdisk says that it s DOS)
-Default partitions are like in handbook:
2.00MiB for grub
128MiB for boot
2048MiB for swap
rest for the root

-then, there is a stage tarball. And I, again, I don't know which one to choose (of course it can't be "no multilib"). From https://www.gentoo.org/downloads/ I have downloaded Stage 3 i686 | uclibc but it didn't unpacked. There was some error. Is this the right choice?

-it seems, that Gento doesn't allow me to even set up the date automatically. When I've used the "ntpd -q -g" command it gave me an error: "unable to bind to wildcard socket address : : - another process may be running - EXITING".
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramirez987,

ulibc is intended for embedded systems with limited functinality.
You should use this stage 3

Its linked from the downloads page. Yon want the x86 side of the page and the i686 button.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramirez987 wrote:
For some reasons my laptop rejects most of them and only old 2GB + Gentoo minimal seems to work(never stuck at this step before! :) )


They may be usb 3.0 or even 2.0 and your laptop doesn't support them? I've got a machine so old it only has usb 1.1 but it's an ancient AT.

I heartily endorse sysrecuecd which fits on a CD instead of the minimal dvd for installation and repair.

http://www.system-rescue-cd.org/
http://www.system-rescue-cd.org/Download/

If no CD drive, just follow these instructions to put the iso onto a bootable usb stick from either linux or windows (I've done both)

http://www.system-rescue-cd.org/Installing-SystemRescueCd-on-a-USB-stick/

EDIT: re-reading, I think you might have already tried sysrescuecd. If a new version doesn't work, try a version of the vintage of your minimal cd from here: http://www.system-rescue-cd.org/Old-versions/ The oldest is 4.4.0 from October 2014, but I swear I have 3.x in the basement and it still works.
Before NeddySeagoon pointed me toward sysrescuecd, I used to use Knoppix for installs. There are some useful Windows utilities on sysrescuecd plus memtest86. Just used it yesterday to check out the new memory that I installed.
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Ramirez987
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well... my computer supports USB 2.0 and 3.0 is compatible. I have never had any problems using the pendrives in any of the operating systems (Windows XP, 7, even 10, Debian, Fedora, Ubuntu, Lubuntu), but when it comes to boot from USB? Only one works. It doesn't run from the USB 3.0(but they are being recognized), another old Kingstone 8GB 2.0 runs, but then, during the Gentoo loading, computer hangs. Which lefts me with only one USB.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

booting from a usb flash drive usually requires either rootwait or rootdelay=10 to be added to the kernel boot options.
Example: root=/dev/sda4 ro rootdelay=10
10 is just the number of seconds I specify, you can specify more or less delay. rootwait will wait forever or until the usb drive is "settled" whichever is first.
Without rootdelay/rootwait, the kernel tries to mount the root partition before it finds and enables usb storage devices as shown from my dmesg:
Code:
[    1.375339] VFS: Mounted root (reiserfs filesystem) readonly on device 259:7.
[    1.675854] usb 1-13: New USB device found, idVendor=058f, idProduct=6362
[    1.676582] usb 1-13: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
[    1.677564] usb 1-13: Product: Mass Storage Device
[    1.678458] usb 1-13: Manufacturer: Generic
[    1.679324] usb 1-13: SerialNumber: 058F63626476

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Ramirez987
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

Which profile should I select, if I want a light GUI?
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fedeliallalinea
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramirez987 wrote:
Which profile should I select, if I want a light GUI?

default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramirez987,

The /desktop profile.
Code:
  [16]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop (stable)
  [17]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/gnome (stable)
  [18]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/gnome/systemd (stable)
  [19]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma (stable)
  [20]  default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma/systemd (stable)

The ones that have gnome and plasma in their names are for those desktop environments

You have an i686 install, so it won't say /amd64/
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Ramirez987
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So
default/linux/x86/17.0/desktop
or
default/linux/x86/17.0/desktop/gnome?

EDIT: I have selected the profile default/linux/x86/17.0/desktop butI don't see any used "USE" flags. Neither by typing the "emerge --info | grep ^use or in make.conf file.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramirez987,

Case matters
Code:
roy@NeddySeagoon_Static ~ $ emerge --info | grep ^use

roy@NeddySeagoon_Static ~ $ emerge --info | grep ^USE
USE="3dnow 3dnowext X a52 aacs acl alsa amd64 amr ao apng bdplus berkdb bluray bzip2 cairo caps cdda cddb cdio cdparanoia cli crypt cups curl cxx device-mapper dri drm dvd dvdnav dvdr egl encode extras fdk ffmpeg flac fontconfig fortran fuse gbm gdbm gegl geoip gif gimp glamor gles2 gpg gpm graphite gtk guidexml iconv icu introspection ipv6 jpeg jpeg2k ladspa lock lzma lzo mad minizip mmx mmxext modules mp3 mplayer mtp ncurses nfs nls nptl nsplugin nss odf ogg olde-gentoo opengl openmp pam pcre pcre16 pdf png popcnt postproc postscript python raw readline sdl seccomp session smpeg spell sqlite sse sse2 sse3 sse4a ssl startup-notification svg sysfs tcpd theora threads thunar tiff tools truetype twolame udf unicode usb v4l vaapi vdpau video vorbis vulkan wav wavpack x264 xattr xv xvid xvmc zlib" ABI_X86="64" ALSA_CARDS="ali5451 als4000 atiixp atiixp-modem bt87x ca0106 cmipci emu10k1x ens1370 ens1371 es1938 es1968 fm801 hda-intel intel8x0 intel8x0m maestro3 trident usb-audio via82xx via82xx-modem ymfpci" APACHE2_MODULES="authn_core authz_core socache_shmcb unixd actions alias auth_basic authn_alias authn_anon authn_dbm authn_default authn_file authz_dbm authz_default authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex cache cgi cgid dav dav_fs dav_lock deflate dir disk_cache env expires ext_filter file_cache filter headers include info log_config logio mem_cache mime mime_magic negotiation rewrite setenvif speling status unique_id userdir usertrack vhost_alias" CALLIGRA_FEATURES="kexi words flow plan sheets stage tables krita karbon braindump author" COLLECTD_PLUGINS="df interface irq load memory rrdtool swap syslog" CPU_FLAGS_X86="3dnow 3dnowext mmx mmxext popcnt sse sse2 sse3 sse4a" ELIBC="glibc" GPSD_PROTOCOLS="ashtech aivdm earthmate evermore fv18 garmin garmintxt gpsclock isync itrax mtk3301 nmea ntrip navcom oceanserver oldstyle oncore rtcm104v2 rtcm104v3 sirf skytraq superstar2 timing tsip tripmate tnt ublox ubx" INPUT_DEVICES="mouse keyboard" KERNEL="linux" L10N="en en-GB en-US" LCD_DEVICES="bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb ncurses text" LIBREOFFICE_EXTENSIONS="pdfimport presenter-console presenter-minimizer" OFFICE_IMPLEMENTATION="libreoffice" PHP_TARGETS="php5-6 php7-0" POSTGRES_TARGETS="postgres9_5" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python3_5" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 python3_5" QEMU_SOFTMMU_TARGETS="i386 x86_64 ppc64 sparc sparc64 arm aarch64" QEMU_USER_TARGETS="i386 x86_64 ppc64 sparc sparc64 arm aarch64" RUBY_TARGETS="ruby22 ruby23" SANE_BACKENDS="epson epson2" USERLAND="GNU" VIDEO_CARDS="fbdev vesa nv nouveau amdgpu radeonsi" XTABLES_ADDONS="quota2 psd pknock lscan length2 ipv4options ipset ipp2p iface geoip fuzzy condition tee tarpit sysrq steal rawnat logmark ipmark dhcpmac delude chaos account"


or you can say
Code:
emerge --info | grep -i ^use
to ignore case.

The profile default/linux/x86/17.0/desktop is correct.
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DONAHUE
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just emerge --info without the | grep (or with | grep USE or with | grep -i use) look at the output , probably see
Quote:
USE="X a52 aac acl acpi a
and a whole lot more USE flags the profile is not reflected in /etc/portage/make.conf; USE= there is for manually entered global flags
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Ramirez987
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believed Gentoo was a flexible OS, but now it seems to me, as random and chaotic. Only way, to have a chance to get something work is to write a sequence of commands in correct order.
E.g.: If I use net-setup to configure wi-fi and then type "dhcpcd xxx", wi-fi works. If I use the dhcpcd command first, there is no way, that I will have a working internet.

The same is with ntpd -q -g command. Few days ago it gave me an error. Now works. Why? I don't know.
Another example is setting the profile. The command:
Code:
emerge --info | grep ^USE
gave me empty result. Now it works, but I didn't do anything different.

Command:
Code:
emerge --ask sys-kernel/gentoo-sources

turned off my computer once. It is fine now.

Now on to my current problem:
I am at the point of instruction that I need to use command
Code:
 genkernel all

But all I get is a bunch of errors:

http://oi64.tinypic.com/291cpr4.jpg

This is my fstab:
http://oi67.tinypic.com/5vr5t5.jpg

And my make.conf (I have set up the flags manually. Don't know if they are correct):

http://oi67.tinypic.com/14e0tjp.jpg
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot copy and paste from your pictures, why not post text instead? Anyhow, there is a clear error, why don't you act on it and turn this option off until you have a GCC that can comply with it?
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Ramirez987
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are pictures, because I can't copy and paste the text here myself. It is not, like I am installing it on VM.
And I don't act on error, because I don't know how. That is why I am asking here for help and trying to describe my problems the best I can.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh come on, you can redirect the output and use wgetpaste instead of pictures. To install and use Gentoo some creativity is needed.
Hint: run startx and use a terminal window to install Gentoo or use SSH, in both cases there is no difficulties to copy and paste.

Your error: This is a kernel configuration option, not supported by your current GCC.
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