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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: Solved:486 stage3 works again (Gentoo Catalyst Infra fixed!) Reply with quote

I fscked up my 486 install (actually, K6-233 that I occasionally use on older machines) so I had to reinstall.

So I untarred the 486 stage3 snapshot on a hard drive with my i7 and rebuilt the packages I was using on that disk; fortunately @world file was still there along with my USE flags/masks.

The snapshot was named stage3-i486-20180423T214502Z.tar.xz

About 43 packages installed, none of which were gcc.

However once done, I verified with qemu with 486 emulation that the disk still works, looks good.

Code:
CHOST="i486-pc-linux-gnu"
CFLAGS="-Os -march=i486 -pipe"


However when I brought the disk back to the K6, that's when things started breaking. The disk boots just fine. Got into the command prompt, and basically things worked... until I tried gcc:

Code:
littlefoot /var/log # gcc
Illegal instruction


What the... gosh darnit another one of these i7 instructions most likely, but I thought I specifically set -march=i486 ...
But then I remembered: I didn't rebuild gcc either!

So is this a stage build bug?
Code:
littlefoot /usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/6.4.0 $ ls -l i486-pc-linux-gnu-gcc
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 958148 Feb 19 20:29 i486-pc-linux-gnu-gcc
littlefoot /usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/6.4.0 $ ./i486-pc-linux-gnu-gcc
Illegal instruction
littlefoot /usr/i486-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/6.4.0 $ cd /usr/bin
littlefoot /usr/bin $ ls -l groff
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 91540 Feb 28 17:01 groff
littlefoot /usr/bin $ ./groff
Illegal instruction


In case people were curious at what happened, I gnu-parted the disk so I could get a small bootable msdos partition on the disk. However I forgot to set the partition type to MSDOS/FAT16 so I had the bright idea of deleting the partition I made with parted and recreating it in MSDOS. However, MSDOS FDISK.EXE F**KED UP and created a partition that overlapped Linux. I didn't notice until I format C:/s which reported a partition much larger than what it should be... I stopped it but it was too late, the disk was corrupted.
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Last edited by eccerr0r on Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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depontius
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran a K6-III for many years, but only self-hosted, which I know would mean much waiting. I ran it as i586, since the K6-III was one instruction (CMPXCH?) shy of i686, but certainly i486 is a viable target.

If you're really stuck, try starting from the stage3 tarball on the k6.
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krinn
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 486 stage3 is broken (binaries cannot be executed by K6) Reply with quote

I think it's again a problem with user and coffee abuse :)
eccerr0r wrote:
The snapshot was named stage3-i486-20180423T214502Z.tar.xz

About 43 packages installed, none of which were gcc.


eccerr0r wrote:
until I tried gcc:

The only real logical answer you should get to this is "unknown command" :)

If you have a gcc, where does it comes from if stage3 didn't provide any?
The answer should also answer why your gcc is not working with the K6.
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, obviously gcc is part of stage3, not because I didn't install it (if it weren't clear, I used the old @world file and remerged @world so I could get back to where I was with the machine prior to the mishap).

I was simply trying to rule out the problem that if I did install gcc with the i7 and the i7 built gcc wrong: then it would be my fault. But I hadn't, so it is a stage3 problem.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a k6-3 binhost somewhere?

Is there somewhere I can post a working k6-3 gcc, glibc, and libtool for you?
Would you trust it if I can? I'll be glad too.
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I should be okay cross compiling I would hope, I was more wondering if there was a systemic issue with the Gentoo auto builder for building install media.

It's weird (but maybe not so weird) that qemu set to 486 works fine. I suspect it's because the non-privileged new instructions don't get trapped by qemu - they'll only trap CPUID and privileged instructions that would trap anyway, and thus qemu is no replacement for real hardware testing...
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Release Engineering reports that an inadvertent consequence of an architectural update to Catalyst has caused recent 486 stages to be built with "-march=i686". They're definitely hosed.

- John
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah cool so I'm not seeing things :D

So only C++ applications are affected or more than just that?

----------

I rebuilt the world (emerge -e @world) on a i686 with the proper forced CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS to i486, and now happy to report that i486 is working, at least running on a K6-233. Now I need to make a backup of this system...or not...

I shouldn't have needed to rebuild @world - luckily I had a i686 at my disposal.

This K6-233 is slow. It has 256MB @PC66 SDRAM, but has 0K L2 cache because the chipset has no idea how to cache 256MB RAM.
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Resolved, looks like it's been fixed, and once again Gentoo truly supports 486's :D bugs.gentoo.org report is here
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eccerr0r wrote:
This K6-233 is slow. It has 256MB @PC66 SDRAM, but has 0K L2 cache because the chipset has no idea how to cache 256MB RAM.
Which mobo & chipset? I still have a k-6III+ 450Mhz and upgraded the RAM to a full three sticks. I can PM you with my source if you want. They are cheap (I think refurbed) and work at full speed. My CPU can overclock to 600, but I haven't tried it with this memory.
Of course, the k6-3 has it's own L-2 cache, but Linux really wants more memory. You must be swapping all the time.
It makes a good router (see the wiki) and should serve files OK even with the IDE interface.
My mobo has mixed ISA (pretty useless now) expansion slots and PCI expansion slots (can still find cards, especially on e-bay).

I don't run a GUI but it duals boots with NT 4.0 which runs pretty good.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IIRC Intel 430TX chipset with four 72-pin SIMMs and two 168-pin DIMMs (of which IIRC have two 128M's installed), and Intel has long since abandoned Socket 7 by the K6-III. The machine is just used for its legacy ports (parallel port bit bang, serial rs-232 port), no GUI due to hard drive space. It has an ISA network card too...

Swapping is only a problem when emerging...though I try not to build anything on this machine.

Unless 'upgrades' are $0 shipped, I have no interest, thanks, I have enough boat anchors :)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't build on my k6 either. I have a 32-bit partition on my Phenom II that I installed i486 like you then re-compiled everything. I build packages in it and rsync them to the real K-6.
5X faster, 3X cores, full 4G memory that makes a real difference in build time.
My chipset is some third party chipset. Mine has three DIMM slots. I thought I had 256MB modules, but not certain. If you find your manual, see if it takes 245MB modules. It really makes a difference on Linux to have more memory. IIRC, Gnome2 was real slow on mine while NT is faster.

Mine also has a PCI NIC and a PCI four port USB card which is handy. If you have a spare PCI slot, I think Vantec used to make a PCI SATA I interface card.
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah the SiS and Via chipsets for Super 7 probably handle more memory, but not the Intel chipsets.

I did try a 256M module and a 128M module in there at one point, it only detected 256MB. On the other hand, other than the swapping problem, the machine is faster with 64MB FPM DRAM in it due to the cache. With 256M SDRAM, there's much less swapping.

I also do not have spare drives lying around, hence it got left with a puny 2GB disk...probably has tons of other "1024" problems in BIOS anyway. I do have PCI UDMA PATA cards that should get around some of those 1024 issues, but, still doesn't get around not having spare disks I can donate to it.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, as soon as you mentioned VIA, I remembered that that's my chipset. I think the mobo is Tyan, but have to open the box to be sure.
I have quite a few IDE drives because WD Cavair seems to never die. I was shocked to find that USPS is paying $300 each for refurbished WD40G's that they format as 4Gig for an older machine that runs NT on Xeon.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the old WD's were sturdy beasts.
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a really old IDE WD, 40MB, that tore itself up when mounted on its side. Ever since then I've been wary about side mounting...and WDs...
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always mounted them wide side vertical and circuit board up. Only had one fail (not catastrophically) at 4 and half years. WD replaced it with a refurbished one but only warranted it for the six months left on the original warranty. Still running years later. I have win 7 on it now. Also IDE. The mobo for the win7 computer has only one SATA I connecter and the usual dual IDE. I have a one TB first generation SATA WD in it for bulk storage and the OS on IDE. I use it for Turbotax and SageTV. I now have the Linux version of SageTV running and with the new Tax laws may not purchase TurboTax anymore since the deductions are limited (sorry to veer into politics). Oh, I also use Win 7 to build palemoon for XP since the project no longer offers an XP download.
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