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e3k
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: Linux kernel to remove experimental x32 ABI Reply with quote

[Moderator edit: Changed title to clarify the reality. Original title was 32bit to be removed from linux :'(. Many users misread early announcements as being about i686, not x32. -Hu]

https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/12/10/1145

That would undermine my resurrection activities i do on old but gold hardware.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please note that x32 != x86.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 32bit to be removed from linux :'( Reply with quote

e3k wrote:
https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/12/10/1145

That would undermine my resurrection activities i do on old but gold hardware.


CONFIG_X86_X32 removal isn't the removal of 32bit support (this is just CONFIG_X86) .
x32 is a hybrid 64bit mode permitting access to x86_64 enhancements but with 32bit points (faster)

As I understand it, it is hardly used
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike155 wrote:
Please note that x32 != x86.
thank you for clarifying. red alert over. i hope 32bit SW stays here while old but functional 32bit HW exists.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

e3k wrote:
mike155 wrote:
Please note that x32 != x86.
thank you for clarifying. red alert over. i hope 32bit SW stays here while old but functional 32bit HW exists.
It will do, x86_64 is just an extension to x86 so you cannot have one without the other. Whether newer features and/or drivers will work in x86 mode is a different story
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
e3k wrote:
mike155 wrote:
Please note that x32 != x86.
thank you for clarifying. red alert over. i hope 32bit SW stays here while old but functional 32bit HW exists.
It will do, x86_64 is just an extension to x86 so you cannot have one without the other. Whether newer features and/or drivers will work in x86 mode is a different story
those old veterans do not need new features. just a fix from time to time.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
e3k wrote:
i hope 32bit SW stays here while old but functional 32bit HW exists.
It will do, x86_64 is just an extension to x86 so you cannot have one without the other. Whether newer features and/or drivers will work in x86 mode is a different story
As I understand it, the kernel could remove support for x86 and still work fine on x86_64. There is not a good reason to do this since x86 is a mature architecture; is not substantially more trouble to support than other, less popular architectures; and is widely used even now. However, if they wanted to do it, they could. Contrast this to x32, which is young, not widely used, and by some accounts, hard to support because of the strange mixed-mode ABI that works like x86 in some places and x86_64 in others.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To my knowledge it was never even considered ready for deployment, so there is that.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hu wrote:
Naib wrote:
e3k wrote:
i hope 32bit SW stays here while old but functional 32bit HW exists.
It will do, x86_64 is just an extension to x86 so you cannot have one without the other. Whether newer features and/or drivers will work in x86 mode is a different story
As I understand it, the kernel could remove support for x86 and still work fine on x86_64. There is not a good reason to do this since x86 is a mature architecture; is not substantially more trouble to support than other, less popular architectures; and is widely used even now. However, if they wanted to do it, they could. Contrast this to x32, which is young, not widely used, and by some accounts, hard to support because of the strange mixed-mode ABI that works like x86 in some places and x86_64 in others.
i just get white noise when i hear that. sorry. transmission terminated.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: 32bit to be removed from linux :'( Reply with quote

but now: https://lubuntu.me/sunsetting-i386/
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: 32bit to be removed from linux :'( Reply with quote

e3k wrote:
but now: https://lubuntu.me/sunsetting-i386/
yup? It takes resource to roll a 32bit and 64bit. Archlinux dropped 32bit last year

How many use 32bit to warrant the infrastructure at distribution level? For Gentoo it is a bit easier as it's almost all from upstream so as long as there are Devs checking the buildability of 32bit packages it will stay as an option.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've always been amaze by the binary vs source irony.
using source you help the most the poor cpu that need every tweak you could gave it to run faster, but at the cost it's a real pain compile it, well, because it's a poor cpu.
using binary you get generic optimization and bloat where your poor cpu should have the most help you can give it, but you help it a lot when installing a package.

I suppose the i386 binary version are so crappy bloated it's no more worth using it and people with poor cpu prefer some better alternative (like a gentoo fast cpu building optmized and non bloated binary for the poor one).
But what will happen to people without access to a fast cpu to do that if binary distros drop i386 build?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 32bit to be removed from linux :'( Reply with quote

e3k wrote:
but now: https://lubuntu.me/sunsetting-i386/
That just means those volunteers will no longer be building and uploading i386 / i686 (classic 32-bit) packages. Anyone who wants to build for classic 32-bit can still do so, and may even be able to use some of the build scripts provided by Lubuntu to do so (if they wanted to follow Lubuntu instead of Gentoo, or Arch, or Fedora, or ...).
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes. 3rd world countries and me are still running 32bit.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since you are presumably on Gentoo, I don't see how this affects you. Gentoo is not Lubuntu. Gentoo's support for x86 is different from other distributions, since you always build locally. As long as upstream projects do not drop support for x86 builds, and Gentoo's ebuilds continue to maintain correct keywords, you can use x86 on Gentoo.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hu wrote:
Since you are presumably on Gentoo, I don't see how this affects you. Gentoo is not Lubuntu. Gentoo's support for x86 is different from other distributions, since you always build locally. As long as upstream projects do not drop support for x86 builds, and Gentoo's ebuilds continue to maintain correct keywords, you can use x86 on Gentoo.
for quick and dirty installations Gentoo is not my first choice.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should never get your Gentoo installations dirty. Cleaning up later can be time-consuming.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hu wrote:
You should never get your Gentoo installations dirty. Cleaning up later can be time-consuming.
I am sorry. My installations get always dirty after time.
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