Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Thermal shutdowns only when running on battery
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

 
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Kernel & Hardware
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
optiluca
Guru
Guru


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 539
Location: Rivergaro, Italy

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:41 am    Post subject: Thermal shutdowns only when running on battery Reply with quote

I have a Lenovo Thinkpad W510 for which I have bought a new (non-original) battery here https://www.amazon.it/Green-Extended-Batteria-Portatile-ThinkPad/dp/B01LWYK7BT/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 . I'm now seeing a very peculiar issue, where only when I'm running on battery, doing any sort of vaguely intensive activity (even just playing an HD video on youtube) triggers a thermal shutdown within 1-2 minutes.

I've tried monitoring what's going on with lm-sensors - the PC will be at an acceptable and plausible ~70 degrees, and then the acpitz-acpi-0 reading will suddenly shoot up to 128 degrees from one second to the next (I'm looking at this with watch -n 0.1 sensors) . I tried a few times, and once I also saw the Core 0 reading shoot up to 128 degrees.

This does not happen if I'm plugged into the mains, or even if I'm running with the original battery. How could changing the battery do this? My only guess is that it's not able to supply enough current (the laptop has the most power-hungry spec that was available), and for some weird reason the first thing to start misbehaving in this scenario is the temperature reading. Does that seem at all possible? I'd be tempted to try and disable thermal shutdowns and then have another go, to see if anything else breaks. Is that even possible? Should I just return the battery?

Thanks!

Code:
thinkpad-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
fan1:        3578 RPM
temp1:        +68.0°C 
temp2:         +0.0°C 
temp3:         +0.0°C 
temp4:         +0.0°C 
temp5:         +0.0°C 
temp6:         +0.0°C 
temp7:         +0.0°C 
temp8:         +0.0°C 

acpitz-acpi-0
Adapter: ACPI interface
temp1:        +68.0°C  (crit = +97.0°C)  <---- This shoots up to 128 degrees.

coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Core 0:       +67.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 1:       +66.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 2:       +68.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 3:       +66.0°C  (high = +84.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)

_________________
# "Hmm, sounds like your system froze up."
# "I don't know why. It's about 80 degrees in here!"

http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/cs_mincing.shtml
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 43178
Location: 56N 3W

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

optiluca,

Return the battery.

The temp reading might be right and it might be the battery that is causing the overheating.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
optiluca
Guru
Guru


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 539
Location: Rivergaro, Italy

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Neddyseagoon,

I'll probably do that - though I am quite intrigued as to how a battery could do this. Do you have any ideas?
_________________
# "Hmm, sounds like your system froze up."
# "I don't know why. It's about 80 degrees in here!"

http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/cs_mincing.shtml
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 43178
Location: 56N 3W

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

optiluca,

A switched mode power supply, as found in all modern equipment is a negative resistor.
The output load is constant (Watts)
The battery voltage falls as it discharges, therefore the current drawn from the battery must increase.
The output power is a constant, the input power must be constant, so if V falls I must increase.
Power= I*V.

The losses in a switched mode power supply are related to the input current squared. So the thermal losses in the system increase as the battery discharges.

There are other effects, like the internal resistance of the battery that make all this worse.

I suspect you have a faulty battery and the internal laptop power supply can't cope with the way the input voltage falls.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5625
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just to compliment Neddy's crashcourse in PowerElectronics :)

The equivalent series resistance may be at fault here. Something around the connection (be it the actual connector or internal to the battery) is presenting a higher than expected impedance. As mentioned, the laptop presents itself as a constant power system so if the volts drops the current must rise to maintain its needed draw. Some unexpected impedance would produce a local volt drop, reducing the voltage to the laptop which would compensate and draw more current which in turns drops more voltage ...

This would be additional heating at the SMPS and at the battery

The reason I suspect some form of unexpected equivalent series resistance is the time and the temperature... there must be enough energy to permit this heatrise while a degree of computer operation exists


If it was me I would get a reasonable rated resistor (For wattage, for impedance) and check the discharge and the voltage being presented under such load. I might even go as far as scoping it... but all this would be to satisfy an idle curiosity as the original supposition of a faulty/inappropriate battery would still stand and the steps would be a RTM
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 43178
Location: 56N 3W

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib,

Hehe. We know its OK with the old battery ...
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Kernel & Hardware All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum