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lefsha
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:22 am    Post subject: Any option to disable premerge check? Reply with quote

It's a new feature (for me). Sometimes it's useful sometimes not.
Obviously it's not really useful for emerge -e @world

It does make wrong assumptions and prevents parallel emerge.

Is it possible to turn it off/on optionally by using some flags or settings?

Thx
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure what "check" you are looking to twiddle. If it's one of the possible system resources checks, those appear in individual ebuilds in the form of variables. I've bumped into these in `emerge -uDN @world` commands, resulting in the command failing, meaning nothing is built.

Code:
grep -r CHECKREQS_ `portageq get_repo_path / gentoo`


On my system, using the typical location for the gentoo tree, the file /usr/portage/eclass/check-reqs.eclass has some information for package maintainers and ebuild composers.

I see no way to disable the system resource checking functions. Setting variables on the emerge command line has no effect, the setting of for example CHECKREQS_MEMORY="" on the command line will be overridden by any setting in the ebuild.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you looking for
Code:
I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING=1
???
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@mike155

I just tried that with
I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING=1 emerge net-misc/r8168

which resulted in
Quote:
* Checking for suitable kernel configuration options...
* r8168-8.045.08 requires Realtek 8169 PCI Gigabit Ethernet adapter (CONFIG_R8169) to be DISABLED
...
* ERROR: net-misc/r8168-8.045.08::gentoo failed (setup phase):


even though I knew what I was doing :lol:

Of course, I can trick the ebuild by manipulating /usr/src/linux/.config, but your suggestion would have been a better trick.
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lefsha
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike155 wrote:
Are you looking for
Code:
I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING=1
???


Yep! Thanks a lot. It did the trick. As soon I am OK on disc space I will turn it on,
cause IDK what it does else.

Anyway checking for disc space available before doing emerge world sound a bit stupid.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lefsha wrote:
Anyway checking for disc space available before doing emerge world sound a bit stupid.
Why is it stupid? The check is to protect you from trying to merge a package that is known to fail in the conditions present on your system.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hu wrote:
Why is it stupid? The check is to protect you from trying to merge a package that is known to fail in the conditions present on your system.


Because it doesn't work. The intention is good, but implementation is wrong.

Imagine, just like my case. You have 10Gb left. You try to "emerge -e world"
Within the world there is for example firefox, which requires 9Gb available
to be able to build properly. I doubt in it, but let us believe everything, what others say.

Just after the launch of emerge, the portage will check if that space is available.
Well, 10Gb > 9Gb so probably the answer is yes.

Now we start to download the sources... It could be easily 4-5Gb in total, may be more.
Correct me if I am wrong. 10Gb - 5Gb = 5Gb. But the first check was OK.
What went wrong?

In other words there is absolutely no point whatsoever to check the available space
not just before the package of interest is going to be merged. The situation can change
any time and there is NO guarantee, that after 10+ hours or how long does it take
to get to firefox while starting from scratch the 10Gb will be still available.

The opposite it's true either. No one prevents me from increasing the available
space from let say 2Gb to 100Gb in few minutes, while sources are downloading.

It's just simply annoying to wait dependency calculation by portage which are taking
as much time as they took back in 2004, but with the new hardware...
and at the end see something has failed.

Now imagine I pressed the button and left for launch expecting some job will be done
after an hour. Instead I see the system where I left it... What kind of help is that?

Surely knowing all these weaknesses one would change his behavior. But it just annoying.

It reminds me Windows, where MS always knows for sure what user wants.

For Gentoo moving into that direction means loosing it's all users. I don't need
a second Arch and much less I need Ubuntu. If I did I won't be here.


P.S. I guess Gentoo developers should have a clear picture of its users. That picture
should be a bit different from Arch or Ubuntu users. Otherwise there is no place under the Sun.

Now serious - did someone made "KYC" investigation project?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lefsha wrote:
The opposite it's true either. No one prevents me from increasing the available
space from let say 2Gb to 100Gb in few minutes, while sources are downloading.

No it's false
You won't increase the 2gb to 100gb because you have no idea firefox will need the 10gb, it is because portage has stopped you and tells you it need 10gb that you are aware of that need.
And the idea was to stop users building a firefox for 10hours just to endup with a failure because user lack the needed space from the start.

Without the option, you have no idea of need, you must take time to build something until it fail to have an idea of what is going on.
And even when you willl reach that state, all you can conclude is:
1/ it is because of lack of free space
2/ i had 2gb and it wasn't enough
In no way you would conclude you need 10gb
What you would do next is trying to check if you can get the information from firefox website of needed space to build it or doing another try with 4gb or 8gb space and waste 10 hours to see it wasn't enough again
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't agree, the I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING is a perfectly fine solution anyway, just to make sure you're aware. Unfortunate if an ebuild ignores the flag but in those cases it often mean it'll 100% fail.

To answer the original question, if you _really_ want to force-disable them all or conditionally, you could use a /etc/portage/bashrc to set a dummy pkg_pretend() { true; } that does nothing (at least I think it should work, haven't tried), but well, do this at your own risks, could miss important messages too (I don't recommend making this a default, or using at all). Portage doesn't stop you from enforcing whatever you like.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
lefsha wrote:
The opposite it's true either. No one prevents me from increasing the available
space from let say 2Gb to 100Gb in few minutes, while sources are downloading.

No it's false
You won't increase the 2gb to 100gb because you have no idea firefox will need the 10gb, it is because portage has stopped you and tells you it need 10gb that you are aware of that need.
And the idea was to stop users building a firefox for 10hours just to endup with a failure because user lack the needed space from the start.


Cant you read, that the provided solution doesn't work? Stopping a emerge, because of such a small issue, which is not an issue at all is totally wrong!
Portage _may_ inform the user, that this or that package would require X Gb space on disc. That is it.

Please read what I have written and think twice before arguing. And if you still going to argue - put your arguments on the table.
Just saying - "false" here is by far not enough. It just tells me you have no clue.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ionen wrote:
If you don't agree, the I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING is a perfectly fine solution anyway, just to make sure you're aware. Unfortunate if an ebuild ignores the flag but in those cases it often mean it'll 100% fail.


It is a workaround the problem. I am not a fan of doing that. And I would disable that flag immediately if the issue will be repaired.
So far I see it is not recognized as such, although it is quite obvious. A solution of a problem must be able to solve it AND don't create another problem.
That "emerge break" doesn't solve anything and create an useless annoyance.

Ionen wrote:
To answer the original question, if you _really_ want to force-disable them all or conditionally

No I don't. It is a misunderstanding. I point to the problem which has to be solved. I just can apply a workaround, to prevent that to happen.

I see it as a bug. Others see it as the feature. It is normal. I have solved it for me (well others helped me, cause I forgot a lot), but may be I have to suffer because of other consequences.
If there would be a better solution I would use that. If not I have to stay with what I have.

P.S. Frankly speaking the variable I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING must be set before Gentoo Installation. Otherwise running Gentoo is looking for troubles.
Those who learn it, should run it in a VM, but not on production machine. Using Gentoo without I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING is wasting time without profit.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lefsha,

You assume that everyone has the same partition layout as you do.
Everything is in one big root partition.

Many users don't do that. The build space check is valuable to them as they are likely to have /var/tmp/portage on its own partition, or even in tmpfs.
With SSDs and >=16G RAM being common, SSD users put /var/tmp/portage into tmpfs to save writes to the SSD that will never be read.

If builds didn't stop for these RAM and build space checks they would never be read until its too late.
You know they are there, why would you leave an overnight build until you have seen that all is well?

I agree that if a build fails, /var/tmp/portage will be full of debris, so further builds may not have enough space but plan for success.
I think that there is a FEATURE to tell portage to clean up after failed builds, so you may use that if you expect builds to fail.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah the feature is "fail-clean" I use it by default and manually set FEATURES=noclean when I need to inspect things.

Also, for large overnight parallel builds, there is an emerge option "--keep-going", so that when it fails you'll only have the failed package (and things that depend on it if it wasn't a simple rebuild) to build, while everything else will have kept going and be done.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ionen,

--keep-going does not continue after a failed build space check.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I was thinking about normal build failures really. I'm having a hard time to see the pre-merge space check as an issue.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This check is useful for many users, though it is not perfect. Of the failure modes below, which do you want changed and what do you propose be done?
  • The package claims to need more space than it actually will need. Solution: file a bug to have the requirement adjusted. Document your configuration, since requirements can vary by what features you enable. Workaround: the requirement is probably not wrong by a large margin, so providing a little extra space will get past it anyway.
  • Downloading the source will bring you below the required amount, and the package does not detect this. As Neddy notes, many people do not download sources to the same volume that will be a build area, so this failure mode does not even apply to those people.
  • The check runs too early, and the space is used up by other processes in the interim. This is always a risk, and can only be mitigated by the administrator ensuring that nothing else can consume space on the build volume. Even if Portage were perfect here, you would still get in trouble if completely unrelated processes (say, a runaway debug log - we've had people report gigabytes of junk logs from broken programs) exhausted your space. In the worst case, the offender might wait until just after the last time Portage checks before it exhausts your space. This check should be done as early as practical, because you want to let the user walk away as soon as possible, and you also want the user to see the error report before leaving.
I have run Gentoo since before my join date. I like to think I know what I am doing, and yet I have used that override only very rarely, when I wanted to use a very experimental package that, by design, refused to build without that because it was not considered ready for general use.

If you have a specific example of a case where Portage balked, and the package worked with the override and no other changes, I'd like to see a description of what happened and how exactly Portage was wrong in that case.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hu,

In my experience, building on space constrained systems like Raspberry Pis ... from the original 256Mb Pi1B up to the 4G Pi4 the build space estimates are all pretty good.
There is no good reason to ignore them.

The RAM constraints vary. Lots of things build (eventually) with less RAM than advertised.
They are driven into swapping first and the build times go through the roof but on a Pi with 1G RAM, there is nowhere to go.
My conclusion from doing silly things on Pis is that if the RAM space requirement is not met, it might build, eventually but it will take a long time to find out.
It would not be reasonable to expect devs to set the RAM limit at the point of failure.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main objection that lefsha seems to be making is that he's started an emerge and immediately walked away, only to have it fail early, in his estimation, for no good reason. The problem with his perceived solution is that, in my estimation, there are so many other things that an emerge can fail early for that's it's a really good idea to stick around to see if the build phase actually starts. The pre-merge checks take very little time to run; also, compared to the build time, the dependency resolution takes a relatively short amount of time as well.

The one thing that I do agree with lefsha on is that dependency resolution is slower today than it was in Ye Olde Days™. The counterpoint is that Portage's dependency resolver does much more than it used to, solving things that at one time it couldn't, resulting in the virtual retirement of previously necessary fix-up tools like revdep-rebuild and python-updater. (I'm not sure about perl-cleaner, but I haven't had to use it in a very long time.) So, sure, it would be nice if it were faster, but, especially on modern hardware, it's not too bad, and it's a Good Thing™ to wait for the the build phase to start before walking away.

- John
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham,

John R. Graham wrote:
... it would be nice if it were faster, but, especially on modern hardware ...

Dependency resolution is over an hour on a 96 core box with 128G RAM, that's pretty modern. :)

Its 96 2GHz cores and dependency resolution is only single threaded but once it gets going ...
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. For what? Mine are never that slow. My big gun workstation is a 24-core dual CPU Xeon running at 3.5GHz but only (!) 32 GiB of RAM with Seagate Barracuda backing store. Here's one exemplar from my home server, though, which is a much more modest machine:
Code:
~ # lshw -short -class cpu
H/W path            Device      Class       Description
=======================================================
/0/4                            processor   Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU        E3300  @ 2.50GHz
/0/4/0.1                        processor   Logical CPU
/0/4/0.2                        processor   Logical CPU
~ # time emerge -uDNvp --with-bdeps=y @world
<snip>
real    7m14.125s
user    7m13.005s
sys     0m0.976s
(Just FYI, the cache was warm.) Of course it's never apples to apples when comparing emerge times, but I repeat, for what?

- John
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neddy,

May be you can help here. I would appreciate it.

I do really feel stupid, because I can't understand why people don't see an obvious problem
with that interruption.

Read again carefully and tell me where I am wrong.

The first story:

1. We start "emerge palemoon"
2. Premerge check will calculate space available. Let it be 10Gb.
3. It will make a decision, whether continue or not. Palemoon need 9Gb
to be compiled.
4. 10Gb > 9Gb so it goes well.
5. Emerge continues and either me or emerge itself because of additional dependencies
will download let say 5Gb. May be it was me, who downloaded a db of all customers of Bank of America...
6. Then it takes 5+ hours till we get to palemoon compilation time.
7. Now we have 10-5-X << 9Gb left. It is not enough to compile palemoon successfully.

The question: What was the purpose to check available space and let compilation go?

The second story:
1. My emerge failed, because not enough space. I do have 10-5 = 5 Gb left.
2. I started "emerge palemoon" again.
3. Premerge check told me - I don't have enough space, BUT didn't interrupt the process.
4. Now I hear the FBI is ringing into my door. And I'm deciding to clean up the space by removing
db of BoA customers, just to make it easier for emerge...
5. Palemoon compiled correctly, because 10-9>0

Please find a mistake in that story.

What we can learn from it? - Give a notice ie provide more information is always a good thing.
Interrupting a process is not. First it doesn't help like in the first story, second it prevents
from successful build in the second one.

What exactly is wrong in these words? It's like 2+2.

NeddySeagoon wrote:
You assume that everyone has the same partition layout as you do.
Everything is in one big root partition.


I don't. How did you come to that conclusion?
Palemoon takes "only" 120Mb of space. It's 2 orders of magnitude lower, than it requires
for compilation. Compilation take place in /var/tmp or /tmp. Some, like me in the past put it
to /home/tmp, because there are more space.

Many browsers, palemoon included sometimes download thing to /tmp.
I have no Idea why they do that.

I see no interference here with a root partition.

I just say the concept is OK (inform user), but implementation is wrong.

NeddySeagoon wrote:
Many users don't do that. The build space check is valuable to them as they are likely to have /var/tmp/portage on its own partition, or even in tmpfs.
With SSDs and >=16G RAM being common, SSD users put /var/tmp/portage into tmpfs to save writes to the SSD that will never be read.


YMMV, but the most common RAM option in shops is still 4Gb. Sometimes 8Gb. Indeed some have more, but it's not given.
RAM is even ore volatile, than disk space. How does premerge knows, that I'm not running emerge with --jobs=20?
It's naive to rely on such a thing. Why not being honest to user and admit, that there is no way to guarantee that much memory will be
available by the time it would be required? - If so, a friendly notice would be totally enough.

NeddySeagoon wrote:
If builds didn't stop for these RAM and build space checks they would never be read until its too late.


What means too late for you? For me too late if the life is over. If one need to build 100 packages before taking on palemoon,
then those will be built by that time. One will just restart building palemoon and that is it. Even like in the first story premerge was OK.

NeddySeagoon wrote:
You know they are there, why would you leave an overnight build until you have seen that all is well?


I said already that nothing is well. An approval from emerge means nothing. Neither positive nor negative.
The outcome is unknown. That is exactly the point.


Well, at the end I don't mind any view on the problem. If every one believe it's just fine. I don't care.
I have solved it for now and it's ok.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
Ionen,

--keep-going does not continue after a failed build space check.


Yes Neddy! Yes! That is it. A Good catch. I am now afraid to ask the question - why?

It's like making a hunting knife blunt on purpose to avoid any damage...

I've read somewhere that Gentoo is all about choice. The choice presume the responsibility.
You either do the choice yourself or let others do that.

Moving towards Ubuntu is death for Gentoo. I repeat myself: Let things break.
There is nothing wrong with it. After 20+ years with Linux I don't know a single
case where nothing could be repaired, besides the hardware damage.

Prevent user/admin from doing something is a misconception.
Inform user is a good thing.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham wrote:
Hmm. For what? Mine are never that slow. My big gun workstation is a 24-core dual CPU Xeon running at 3.5GHz but only (!) 32 GiB

:D :D :D
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ionen wrote:
Yeah, I was thinking about normal build failures really. I'm having a hard time to see the pre-merge space check as an issue.

Check is never an issue. The process abort is the one.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lefsha,

Your logic is not clear because your underlying assumptions are not stated.
If you have a single partition for Gentoo then what you say is correct.
All processes compete for the same free disk space.

The more general case for your unwritten assumption is that build space and distfiles are on the same partition.

If you have several partitions that may no longer be true. Lets take my install as a worked example.
Code:
$ df -hT
Filesystem                    Type   Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/mapper/static-root       ext4   976M  840M   70M  93% /
/dev/mapper/static-usr        ext4   207G  153G   46G  78% /usr
/dev/dm-12                    ext4   5.8G  1.1G  4.4G  20% /var
tmpfs                         tmpfs  1.6G  224K  1.6G   1% /run
shm                           tmpfs  7.9G  460M  7.4G   6% /dev/shm
cgroup_root                   tmpfs   10M     0   10M   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
/dev/mapper/vg-home           ext4   1.5T  1.3T  149G  90% /home
/dev/shm                      tmpfs  7.9G   76K  7.9G   1% /tmp
/dev/mapper/static-opt        ext4   976M  952M     0 100% /opt
/dev/mapper/static-local      ext4   976M  7.1M  902M   1% /usr/local
/dev/mapper/static-portage    ext4   5.3G  305M  4.7G   7% /usr/portage
/dev/mapper/vg-distfiles      ext4   187G  161G   19G  90% /usr/portage/distfiles
/dev/shm                      tmpfs  9.0G     0  9.0G   0% /var/tmp/portage
/dev/mapper/vg-var            ext4    58G   21G   35G  38% /mnt/oldvar
192.168.100.55:/mnt/mediatomb nfs     11T  6.9T  3.3T  68% /mnt/media


When emerge fetches sources, they go to /usr/portage/distfiles.
The build phase happens in /var/tmp/portage.
When a build space test says it needs 8G, its
Code:
Filesystem                    Type   Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/shm                      tmpfs  9.0G     0  9.0G   0% /var/tmp/portage
that is tested for free space.
As source code downloads go to
Code:
Filesystem                    Type   Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/mapper/vg-distfiles      ext4   187G  161G   19G  90% /usr/portage/distfiles
which has its own 19G free, source downloads do not affect available build space.

I'm using Logical Volume Manager as its good for free space management. Consider each entry in my df output as a separate partition.
A partition and a logical volume are functionally equivalent.

Why do you assume that downloads by you or by portage will eat into build space?
What does your
Code:
df -hT
show?
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
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