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Hydraulix
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:03 pm    Post subject: Question about installing Gentoo on a G3 500mhz iBook 10.3 Reply with quote

I'm debating on installing Gentoo on my iBook. I just wanted to know how much of a problem it is going to be installing it and can I use all the packages that come with the x86 Gentoo versions? Or is there some kinda PPC version of packages?



Thanks in advance. :D
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m0pr0be
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it depends on your gentoo experience. the basic installation works fine for ppc archs. for the extra features like laptop sleep you will need some more time fiddling around, maybe.
the most important packages in the portage tree will work. there are a few packages that are x86 only. like x86 binary packages. or packages which rely heavily on x86 specific code.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should check out the Gentoo package database: http://packages.gentoo.org/ and you can see exactly what you'll get for each arch in Gentoo. Most ebuilds available for x86 work fine for ppc, but there are the occasional nonfunctional ones (like Rosegarden :( ).

I'd say that in my experience, Gentoo on ppc is great! Not the easiest thing to install, in general, (pcc has some interesting differences from x86), but it's a great way to learn about your machine, not to mention a great way to actually do what you want with your own hardware
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience, too, Gentoo on ppc is fantastic. Everything on my iBook (rev. 2.2, 800 MHz) is supported, even the software modem and sleep (with stable ppc-sources).

With respect to packages, the 'unmasking' of packages tends to take a bit longer in ppc than in x86, but on the other hand, I generally have no problem emerging masked versions when I want something to be more up to date, or something that just hasn't been tested enough to be marked stable on ppc (i.e., more than on x86, masked on ppc often seems to indicate a lack of sufficient testing, rather than it truly being unstable). There are a few binary-only packages (acroread, macromedia flash and such) that tend to be x86-only, but those have been the only things I've run into that are truly blocked on ppc. I've never tried Rosegarden; could it be that it uses x86-specific instructions, e.g., requires MMX? I ran into that with xzgv, but the MMX-specific option could be turned off by editing one line of the makefile. I guess I beg your pardon (can't... stop... the... pun...), no one promised you a Rosegarden. :wink: Sorry, sorry, honestly couldn't help it. :)

There are some ppc-specific kernel options (mainly drivers, but also things like apm emulation for laptops), and it's worth the time to read the help text and see which ones are appropriate. Also, there are some ppc-specific packages that are handy on a laptop: pmud, pbbuttonsd, gtkpbbuttons, etc. I think many of these are mentioned in the ppc install guide, and the ppc faq.

One more comment. I had some trouble recently with using more aggressive $CFLAGS on ppc (gtk2 apps stopped working), so I'd recommend sticking to the $CFLAGS recommended in the default /etc/make.conf -- they're well-tested -- or something similarly conservative. The $CFLAGS that work best for me (i.e., no problems at all) are "-Os -pipe -mcpu=750 -fomit-frame-pointer -s".

Best of luck! As I said, Gentoo is great on my iBook, and I hope it's as much fun, and as useful for you.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi there - I have your model of ibook, and have installed gentoo on it several times in various configurations. In general the install is not too bad, though depending on what kernel you're using, getting DRI to work with the ATI M3 on the ibook2 can be a pain - the 2.6 test kernels have managed this much much better for me than any of the 2.4 kernels. With DRI enabled, the ibook2 feels so much snappier than with os x. sound is good with 2.4 but my experience has been that with 2.6 test kernels it is choppy. The only other gotchas are just the mac-fdisk/partition layout differences from x86, which caused me some grief, but are managable once you understand what the install requires, and the power management stuff.

There are alot of packages that are masked for ppc that are usable for x86 - which can be disheartening if you count on a particular package and are not willing to use an unstable version. However, as the other posters point out, most of the big packages are there.

I agree with the boojummy that installing ppc gentoo was a great way to learn about my machine. I have ditched mac oses entirely, and run a gentoo only ibook2 - which gives you some idea of what a good fit gentoo is for my ibook hardware! :)
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Hydraulix
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all :D


Yeah all I want to do is have Gentoo on my iBook and also have OS X. Is there a page where I can find out how much space Gentoo needs for the install? I was thinking of giving 9GB to OS X and 9GB to Gentoo. See I was using Fink for a while but there's a lack of packages and KDE runs slow as hell on my iBook. Again thanks for your help. I've installed Linux many many times on the x86 platform but never on a PPC machine.


O also how's Mac on Linux (MOL)? I've seen it on many machines and I just wanted to know how fast does it run and is there a way to run it fullscreen?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hydraulix wrote:
Yeah all I want to do is have Gentoo on my iBook and also have OS X. Is there a page where I can find out how much space Gentoo needs for the install? I was thinking of giving 9GB to OS X and 9GB to Gentoo. See I was using Fink for a while but there's a lack of packages and KDE runs slow as hell on my iBook. Again thanks for your help. I've installed Linux many many times on the x86 platform but never on a PPC machine.


I don't think the amount of space used by Gentoo on ppc will be a lot different from the space requirements of x86 Linux, so your experience there will be your best guide. My hunch is that 9 + 9 will be fine (I'm using double that, 18 + 18, and have lots of space left over for both OSes), but depending on how much you expect to use OS X, you might even go 10 for Gentoo and 8 for OS X; as someone who's using Linux most of the time now on my iBook, I'd even think about 11 and 7. Without fink, and assuming you aren't using any gargantuan packages for OS X, 8 GB will be plenty. (Likely a widely known tip: when installing OS X, do a custom install, and remove any language/localization packs and printer drivers you know you won't need -- that will save a lot of space, not to mention make the install process a lot quicker.) Also, in Gentoo, some of the most space-consuming bits can be easily monitored and kept clean if disk space becomes an issue -- /usr/portage/distfiles, for example.

About performance, you're right: on the same hardware, Linux seems significantly faster when running most things. I really notice it when running offlineimap, a python program that syncs my mail for me, but on other things, too. I suspect OS X has better video drivers for the hardware (i.e., better 3D performance, which I don't need for my everyday use), but otherwise, I'm very happy with the improvement in speed while using Linux.

Hydraulix wrote:
O also how's Mac on Linux (MOL)? I've seen it on many machines and I just wanted to know how fast does it run and is there a way to run it fullscreen?


MOL is brilliant. It works very well for me, though I've never tested USB devices or sound with it; I also haven't set up NFS to share files between the two, though that's supposed to work well. I mainly use it occasionally to run a few OS X programs I like, and for testing web pages I'm writing in various OS X browsers. After installing MOL, I just made a few changes in the well-commented config files, and fired it up, then installed the OS X MOL drivers (they appear on the desktop when running in MOL). After I was sure it was working properly, I changed the display settings so that it ran full-screen (on a virtual console, easy to switch back and forth), which seems more appropriate for my 1024x768 laptop.

As for speed, OS X is a bit slower in MOL than when booting into it directly. Disk and net speed seem pretty much the same, but I notice a sluggishness in the graphics. I don't know if that's because MOL is slowing things down a bit, or because I never have taken the time to squeeze every last gram of performance out of my video card in Linux, but no matter: it's not that much slower, and still fast enough for typical use. The only time I boot directly into OS X these days is to play graphical games, for which I figure I want the most performance.

Three other notes. First, MOL appears to OS X as if it's different hardware than the actual hardware of the Mac -- different NIC, etc. In general, this hasn't been a problem, but you might notice that booting into OS X after a MOL session, you might have to re-set a few prefs. The big one for me is network settings, but having created a new "MOL" location, rendezvous seems to figure things out on its own now.

Second, I don't know about your keyboard layout, but on my iBook, re-mapping the 'enter' key (just to the right of the spacebar) to be right-click is enormously convenient. fn-enter then is middle-click. (Use showkey to get the keycodes; I think this is in the Gentoo PPC FAQ.) And one unexpected bonus: when using MOL, this mouse button emulation works in OS X!

Finally, since MOL requires kernel modules to do its thing, as well as iptables support to manage shared networking in OS X, you need to re-emerge MOL after rebooting with a new kernel (make sure /usr/src/linux points to the current sources), and have iptables (kernel and userspace) if you want OS and Linux to share an ip address.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a lot:)


It seems that the version of Gentoo I have has the 2.4 kernel that's not working on my system. I really just want the 2.6 kernel version. Where can I download that at?
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m0pr0be
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~ppc" emerge ppc-development-sources
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edub wrote:
, getting DRI to work with the ATI M3 on the ibook2 can be a pain



How did you get DRI to work on the iBook? I'm using kernel 2.6.2_rc1-r1
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was also looking into putting Linux on my iBook, and instead of starting a new thread, I figured I would put my questions in here:

I can't reach a decision between Gentoo, Debian, or YDL. I'm relatively new to Linux and am partial to Debian because it has apt-get, and I've had good experiences with it on my x86 desktop box. I've also heard that Yellow Dog comes with excellent hardware supports right out of the box. Thoughts on this?

Also, in terms of file systems, I want to keep all my music on my OS X partition. Which format should I use for OS X so that I can see my music under Linux? (UFS is ok because I don't plan to boot OS 9)

Thanks in advance.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hydraulix wrote:
How did you get DRI to work on the iBook? I'm using kernel 2.6.2_rc1-r1


I also had troubles with it lately. First thing with 2.6: Use the DRI-driver from the kernel. The DRI-ebuilds won't work. That means, you should have the following in your kernel-config:

Code:
CONFIG_AGP=m
CONFIG_AGP_UNINORTH=m
CONFIG_DRM=y
CONFIG_DRM_R128=m


Then you have to edit your XF86Config with the following options:

Code:
Load    "dri"   #in Section Module
Driver  "r128"  #in Section "Device"

# and insert at the end
Section "DRI"
        Mode 0666
EndSection


Especially the last thing I forgot...
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Hydraulix
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm I did everything you said and it's still not working. I keep getting this error when I run glxinfo.....


Code:
name of display: :0.0
Xlib:  extension "XFree86-DRI" missing on display ":0.0".
display: :0  screen: 0
direct rendering: No
server glx vendor string: SGI
server glx version string: 1.2
server glx extensions:
    GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_EXT_import_context
client glx vendor string: SGI
client glx version string: 1.2
client glx extensions:
    GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_EXT_import_context
GLX extensions:
    GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_EXT_import_context
OpenGL vendor string: Mesa project: www.mesa3d.org
OpenGL renderer string: Mesa GLX Indirect
OpenGL version string: 1.3 Mesa 4.0.4
OpenGL extensions:
    GL_ARB_imaging, GL_ARB_multitexture, GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp,
    GL_ARB_texture_cube_map, GL_ARB_texture_env_add,
    GL_ARB_texture_env_combine, GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3,
    GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_EXT_abgr, GL_EXT_blend_color,
    GL_EXT_blend_minmax, GL_EXT_blend_subtract, GL_EXT_texture_env_add,
    GL_EXT_texture_env_combine, GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3,
    GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias
glu version: 1.3
glu extensions:
    GLU_EXT_nurbs_tessellator, GLU_EXT_object_space_tess

   visual  x  bf lv rg d st colorbuffer ax dp st accumbuffer  ms  cav
 id dep cl sp sz l  ci b ro  r  g  b  a bf th cl  r  g  b  a ns b eat
----------------------------------------------------------------------
0x23 24 tc  1 24  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  0  0 16  0  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x24 24 tc  1 24  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  0  0 16  8 16 16 16  0  0 0 None
0x25 24 tc  1 24  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 16  8 16 16 16 16  0 0 None
0x26 24 tc  1 24  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0 16  8 16 16 16 16  0 0 None
0x27 24 dc  1 24  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  0  0 16  0  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
0x28 24 dc  1 24  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  0  0 16  8 16 16 16  0  0 0 None
0x29 24 dc  1 24  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 16  8 16 16 16 16  0 0 None
0x2a 24 dc  1 24  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0 16  8 16 16 16 16  0 0 None

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey, i'll throw in my 2 cents. i just booted back into gentoo after about a month of panther (just too busy with school to be messing around with gentoo) and wow, all i can say is it's much more responsive than panther. so yes, put gentoo on :)

as for DRI, i tried everything to get it going without much luck... i finally got it going by throwing in this into the device section:

Code:

Option     "ForcePCIMode"               "True"


don't ask me why, i found it on this forum a while back...

cheers!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still a no go :( Am I doing something wrong? Here's my XF86Config-4 config.


Code:
Section "ServerLayout"
Identifier     "XFree86 Configured"
Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0
InputDevice    "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
InputDevice    "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection

Section "Files"
RgbPath      "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb"
ModulePath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules"
FontPath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/truetype"
FontPath     "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/"
FontPath     "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/"
FontPath     "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/"
FontPath     "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/CID/"
FontPath     "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/"
FontPath     "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/"
EndSection

Section "Module"
Load  "record"
Load  "extmod"
Load  "dbe"
Load  "dri"
Load  "glx"
Load  "xtrap"
Load  "type1"
Load  "speedo"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier  "Keyboard0"
Driver      "keyboard"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier  "Mouse0"
Driver      "mouse"
Option    "Protocol"        "IMPS/2"
Option          "ZAxisMapping"  "4 5"
Option          "Device"        "/dev/input/mice"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
Identifier   "Monitor0"
VendorName   "Monitor Vendor"
ModelName    "Monitor Model"
UseModes   "Modes0"
HorizSync       30-70
VertRefresh     50-160
EndSection

Section "Device"
### Available Driver options are:-
### Values: <i>: integer, <f>: float, <bool>: "True"/"False",
### <string>: "String", <freq>: "<f> Hz/kHz/MHz"
### [arg]: arg optional
#Option     "NoAccel"               # [<bool>]
#Option     "SWcursor"              # [<bool>]
#Option     "Dac6Bit"               # [<bool>]
#Option     "Dac8Bit"               # [<bool>]
#Option     "DMAForXv"              # [<bool>]
Option     "ForcePCIMode"          # true
#Option     "CCEPIOMode"            # [<bool>]
#Option     "CCENoSecurity"         # [<bool>]
#Option     "CCEusecTimeout"        # <i>
#Option     "AGPMode"               # <i>
#Option     "AGPSize"               # <i>
#Option     "RingSize"              # <i>
#Option     "BufferSize"            # <i>
#Option     "Display"               # <str>
#Option     "PanelWidth"            # <i>
#Option     "PanelHeight"           # <i>
#Option     "ProgramFPRegs"         # [<bool>]
#Option     "UseFBDev"              # [<bool>]
#Option     "VideoKey"              # <i>
#Option     "ShowCache"             # [<bool>]
Identifier  "Card0"
Option "UseFBDev"
Driver      "r128"
VendorName  "ATI Technologies Inc"
BoardName   "Rage Mobility M3 AGP 2x"
BusID       "PCI:0:16:0"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen0"
Device     "Card0"
Monitor    "Monitor0"
DefaultDepth 24
SubSection "Display"
Depth 1
Modes     "1024x768"
EndSubSection
SubSection "Display"
Depth 4
Modes     "1024x768"
EndSubSection
SubSection "Display"
Depth 8
Modes     "1024x768"
EndSubSection
SubSection "Display"
Depth 15
Modes     "1024x768"
EndSubSection
SubSection "Display"
Depth 16
Modes     "1024x768"
EndSubSection
SubSection "Display"
Depth 24
Modes     "1024x768"
EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "DRI"
   Mode 0666
EndSection

Section "Modes"
        Identifier      "Modes0"
   # mode generated by Xeasyconf
   Modeline "1024x768" 64.994 1024 1064 1200 1344  768 771 777 806  -HSync -VSync
EndSection

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm, dunno if i can help then :(

if it helps here's my XF86Config-4:

http://www.ugrad.cs.ubc.ca/~k5u3/XF86Config-4

good luck!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonson wrote:
hmm, dunno if i can help then :(

if it helps here's my XF86Config-4:

http://www.ugrad.cs.ubc.ca/~k5u3/XF86Config-4

good luck!



Fucking nice one!!



Now I know what my problem was. I had the display settings up too high. It was set at 24 instead of 16. So I just used your XF86Config-4 and wala everything works. :D
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