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BlindSpy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:19 pm    Post subject: Faster, more efficient typing Reply with quote

Switching over to the Dvorak keyboard layout (and learning it) is a great way to become an extremely fast typer. Heres a website so you can print off the layout and see how you like it. Its not for the faint at heart:

http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak/layout.html

Once you decide you want to use it, you must switch your keyboard layout over to dvorak. In Linux, this is as simple as running the command 'setxkbmap dvorak' and 'setxkbmap us' to go back to normal.

In GNOME, you can simply bind those commands to the custom run command GConf keys. To do this, go to GConf and navigate to /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/ and set the commands in run_command_1 to 'F9' and run_command_10 to 'F10'. then go to keybinding_commands and set command_1 to 'setxkbmap us' and command_10 to 'setxkbmap dvorak'. Now you can toggle back and forth with F9 and F10!

I'm not sure how to do this in other WM's so if others could add on that would be great.

Finally, emerge app-misc/dvorak7min and learn Dvorak in 7 or more minutes.
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mayday147
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And how would that layout help me?
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BlindSpy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak/index.html
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agrippa_cash
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:30 pm    Post subject: Fainthearted Reply with quote

Being too cheap to actually buy a Dvorak keyboard, I took an El Cheepo, tore out the keys, and replaced them in a dvorak like manner. Though I really like the idea, I'm afraid that I could never force myself to learn. Even if you master the Dvroak layout, you'll still spend all of you public terminal/work/laptop time with QUERTY and have to mentally switch back. However I never got anywhere near as proficient with Dvorak as I am with QUERTY so maybe it is worth switching at that point.
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BlindSpy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I work with all linux machines so I can stick with dvorak if I like. The only thing is, it wasnt designed with programming in mind. Expecially if you use a lot of command line programs where the key combo's we're designed on a qwerty.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:03 am    Post subject: Dvorak Layout Reply with quote

I switched to the dvorak keyboard layout on my laptop a year ago. At work and home I still use the qwerty layout. I don't have any problems switching between the two, and don't even notice when I move from one layout to the next.
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rohan28
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I learnt Dvorak once while I was bored during the holidays. It generally is a lot more efficient for typing English, but the fact that I was using a QWERTY keyboard with the keys switched around made it not so great - I didn't realise how much I relied on those little bumps on the home row until they weren't there any more.

Also, on most keyboards, the keys in the different rows are actually different sizes; if you switch a QWERTY keyboard to Dvorak, it ends up all 'hilly', which feels pretty weird under your fingers :-)
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truekaiser
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dvorak isn't any better then qwerty, both allow fast typeing speeds.
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Skreems
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

truekaiser wrote:
dvorak isn't any better then qwerty, both allow fast typeing speeds.

that isn't actually true...

the article linked above lays out some really interesting diagrams of a paragraph typed in each of the layouts... for example, dvorak has often-neighboring letters on opposite hands more often, resulting in faster times because the other hand can be anticipating the next letter. Also, dvorak uses the home row 70% of the time, compared to 30-something % for qwerty... it's pretty much no contest. I love my dvorak :-)
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Gherald
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dvorak is better than Qwerty for typing english, but only to a certain extent. I learned Dvorak and was reasonably competent for a beginner (~30 WPM) before realizing how much it sucked for programming and common hotkeys (e.g. Ctrl+Z,X,C,V...)

So I gave up on it and went back to Qwerty.

But for those of you who feel like giving Dvorak a whirl to see what all the fuss is about, you might like these bash aliases:

Code:
alias dv="sudo loadkeys /usr/share/keymaps/i386/dvorak/dvorak.map.gz; xmodmap /usr/share/xmodmap/xmodmap.dvorak"
alias ek="sudo loadkeys /usr/share/keymaps/i386/qwerty/us.map.gz; xmodmap /usr/share/xmodmap/xmodmap.us"

Emerge sudo if you don't have it, or replace "sudo" with "su -c", I think that should work.

These will switch your kb layout for both console and X in one go. The reason I called the second one ek is because E and K are the two keys that occupy the same slots as D and V on a qwerty keyboard, so you always use the same two keys to switch back and forth.

dvorak7min is ok but I found ktouch (part of the kdeedu package) to be nicer

Here is a good thread where some people relate their experiences: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=78976

And here is a very recent /. discussion: http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=137187&cid=11464620
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Larry The Cow
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I believe the qwerty keyboard layout was created to slow down typing, so as to keep keys from jamming on typewriters. I only use Dvorak on my computer; But I have a nice qwerty keyboard and I don't want to spend a lot to get a nice Dvorak keyboard, so I simply use the Dvorak keyboard layout on my qwerty keyboard (I have learned to touch-type with Dvorak of course, so I don't need to look at the keyboard). I need to mark my keys Dvorak sometime...
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Rick
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I'm pretty addicted to vi(m) and programming switching is not really an option for me, besides that I reach about 400/500kpm already so it's going fast enough for me.
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monotux
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can find a swedish version of dvorak over here :)
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larry The Cow wrote:
Actually, I believe the qwerty keyboard layout was created to slow down typing, so as to keep keys from jamming on typewriters.


There are plenty of reasons to use Dvorak, but urban legends are not one of them.
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Larry The Cow
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lews_Therin wrote:
Larry The Cow wrote:
Actually, I believe the qwerty keyboard layout was created to slow down typing, so as to keep keys from jamming on typewriters.


There are plenty of reasons to use Dvorak, but urban legends are not one of them.


Although this may not be entirely true, I would hardly call it a legend.
http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/story098.htm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody know how to add a keyboard layout to Gnome? There isn't an option for a US Dvorak Layout.
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etnoy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dvorak, even if you don't think you'll be any faster than with qwerty you'll feel that the keys are a lot more efficently placed so you won't have to stretch and use your hand too much. It does do a great difference!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

robet wrote:
Anybody know how to add a keyboard layout to Gnome? There isn't an option for a US Dvorak Layout.

Last time I used gnome I simply pushed a buttom (you had to add something to the panel), and through that menu, I could select a swedish version of dvorak - if your haven't succeded in adding the english layout, you've problably used wrong tool :)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started learning dvorak a while ago, but then I gave up because I saw this
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larry The Cow wrote:
Lews_Therin wrote:
Larry The Cow wrote:
Actually, I believe the qwerty keyboard layout was created to slow down typing, so as to keep keys from jamming on typewriters.


There are plenty of reasons to use Dvorak, but urban legends are not one of them.


Although this may not be entirely true, I would hardly call it a legend.
http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/story098.htm


The idea that qwerty designed to slow typists down is a legend. If you read that article you will see that it wasn't designed so much to slow the typists down, but to move common key combinations to alternate sides of the keyboard to prevent jamming. Jamming in a typewriter occurs when 2 hammers that are close together are pressed at the same time.

This change gives qwerty an advantage over dvorak that evens out any performance claim. While dvorak may gain speed by having common letters closer to the home keys, qwerty gains from having your hands alternate more while typing. Most proper studies that get done show no advantage to either layout. The original myth that dvorak was faster was created by dvorak himself.

http://reason.com/9606/Fe.QWERTY.shtml
http://wwwpub.utdallas.edu/~liebowit/keys1.html
http://www.chicagologic.com/QWERTYrumor.htm
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used both, and Dvorak is certainly faster and more error-free.
70-90 WPM Qwerty with 1-4 errors per minute.
80-100 WPM Dvorak with 0-2 errors per minute.
Dvorak simply has more keys on the home row and is better laid out.
I think it is important to note, however, that the thought process and not raw typing speed is often the limiting factor.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:37 am    Post subject: Re: Fainthearted Reply with quote

agrippa_cash wrote:
Even if you master Linux, you'll still spend all of you public terminal/work/laptop time with Microsoft and have to mentally switch back.



Fixed it for you, since you wanna use FUD.

Dvorak is better. faster, perhaps not. but it is both easier to learn, and easier on my hands. sure i only do about 10 WPM in dvorak, but I've never had any training, and with qwerty, I have to use the biblical method

NQS
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:44 am    Post subject: Re: Fainthearted Reply with quote

NotQuiteSane wrote:
agrippa_cash wrote:
Even if you master Linux, you'll still spend all of you public terminal/work/laptop time with Microsoft and have to mentally switch back.



Fixed it for you, since you wanna use FUD.

Dvorak is better. faster, perhaps not. but it is both easier to learn, and easier on my hands. sure i only do about 10 WPM in dvorak, but I've never had any training, and with qwerty, I have to use the biblical method

NQS


Better is a subjective term...also easier to learn is something that differs from person to person due to learning styles and habits. It's just things one of those things that should be avoided for use as an argument. I take neither side but just hope to calm a flamefest before it gets too out of hand :P

~CS84 (who has an opinion but sees no point in stating it)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Fainthearted Reply with quote

christsong84 wrote:
NotQuiteSane wrote:
Dvorak is better. faster, perhaps not. but it is both easier to learn, and easier on my hands. sure i only do about 10 WPM in dvorak, but I've never had any training, and with qwerty, I have to use the biblical method

NQS

Better is a subjective term..

Which is why he went on to explain /why/ he thinks it is better.
Quote:
.also easier to learn is something that differs from person to person due to learning styles and habits. It's just things one of those things that should be avoided for use as an argument.

Quite the contrary. It has been empirically verified that Dvorak is easier to learn. It is one of Dvorak's most notable advantages and clearly deserves mention.
Quote:
I take neither side but just hope to calm a flamefest before it gets too out of hand :P

Right...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Fainthearted Reply with quote

freeix wrote:

Quite the contrary. It has been empirically verified that Dvorak is easier to learn. It is one of Dvorak's most notable advantages and clearly deserves mention.


Yes, I have empirically learnt that Dvorak suxxx big time for things like CRTL+C, CTRL+V, CTRL+] etc. etc. :x
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