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nyda
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah great, some portage gurus to bug... :-)

How would I make a package join the stable tree. What I mean is this:
When Gnome 2.8 was ~x86 I added all it's packages to packages.keywords. Now 2.8 has hit stable, but it seems portage already upgraded my local version to 2.8.1 which is not yet stable. I don't want to downgrade (because 2.8.1 will be the next stable in a few weeks anyways), but I don't want any further unstable upgrades either. How can I tell portage to keep the current version and only upgrade once there is a stable version available?

I didn't find any info how to do this without -U (which doesn't seem to work anymore), but surely portage supports something as important as this. Any ideas?
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fearofcorners
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the reason why I learned to use portage wrong is much of the docs I used when I originally started using gentoo suggested you emerge things with ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~arch" instead of adding it to /etc/portage/package.keywords. I didn't realize my folly until I tried something like running emerge -e system.

Furthermore, there seems to be some confusion in some docs about whether it is package or packages.keywords/unmask/etc. It would be nice if there was example files placed there when you intially set up your system, especially in stage 2/3 installs where the user is expected to know less. Is it not possible to have comments in those files?
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eandry
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fearofcorners wrote:
I think the reason why I learned to use portage wrong is much of the docs I used when I originally started using gentoo suggested you emerge things with ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~arch" instead of adding it to /etc/portage/package.keywords. I didn't realize my folly until I tried something like running emerge -e system.

Furthermore, there seems to be some confusion in some docs about whether it is package or packages.keywords/unmask/etc. It would be nice if there was example files placed there when you intially set up your system, especially in stage 2/3 installs where the user is expected to know less. Is it not possible to have comments in those files?


I have the exact same complaint. If those mentioned files had an example configuration just like most other files in /etc/ then I might have had less problems. I too was foolish to have ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~x86 in the beginning and have since removed it. When I tried to downgrade to stable packages I had many problems with gcc and glibc. And now, I get really strage errors when I try to emerge packages that I would think have no problems. I'm now set on doing a stage 3 reinstall very soon.
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fearofcorners
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eandry wrote:

I have the exact same complaint. If those mentioned files had an example configuration just like most other files in /etc/ then I might have had less problems. I too was foolish to have ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~x86 in the beginning and have since removed it. When I tried to downgrade to stable packages I had many problems with gcc and glibc. And now, I get really strage errors when I try to emerge packages that I would think have no problems. I'm now set on doing a stage 3 reinstall very soon.


Well the whole point of gentoo is flexibility, from hardened to bleeding edge. The second you start unmasking packages you're putting your system's stability in your own hands.

My problem was after doing things like ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~arch" USE="..." emerge whatever I couldn't do anything like emerge -e world to take advantage of gcc-3.4/cflags/etc without downgrading lots of packages and loosing things like dvd-rw support.

As it was, I wanted to start fresh as well. I found it is pretty quick to be up and running from a stage 2 or stage 3 if you've got your old config files for things like xorg, and as long as you set up your /etc/portage/package.* files you can safely update and recompile your whole system with one or two commands.
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fearofcorners
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, a kde-esque GUI portage frontend with lots of tooltips and warnings would be a godsend to noobs everywhere. That plus widely available binary ebuilds would basically make gentoo the ultimate linux distro, for the newbie and the ub3r alike.
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kimchi_sg
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fearofcorners wrote:
Actually, a kde-esque GUI portage frontend with lots of tooltips and warnings would be a godsend to noobs everywhere.

Code:
emerge guitoo

fearofcorners wrote:
That plus widely available binary ebuilds would basically make gentoo the ultimate linux distro, for the newbie and the ub3r alike.

No it would not. Gentoo is only greay as long as it remains a primarily source-based distro. This my $0.02.

This not my $0.02: a good page explaining the near-total absence of binary packages and ebuilds in Portage, and why there may never ever be many more. His $0.02 though.
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nexus780
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fearofcorners wrote:
Actually, a kde-esque GUI portage frontend with lots of tooltips and warnings would be a godsend to noobs everywhere. That plus widely available binary ebuilds would basically make gentoo the ultimate linux distro, for the newbie and the ub3r alike.

Disagreed. I agree with the example files in /etc/portage though, would surely be helpful for many people without harming them. However a GUI that will do everything for you is IMO not even desirable. Gentoo - and especially ~ Gentoo - is not for the uninterested noob. It is for the ready-and-willing-to-learn noob though, and usually even retarded mistakes get help, at least if it's visible that the noob tried, and having a complete GUI (if that's even possible..) would discourage trying. And I honestly can't see how Gentoo4Noobs could work, since Gentoo is made for people who want to decide themselves, whereas uninterested noobs want to put in a CD or press a button and then have the system ready to use. I think Gentoo should stick to its target audience (people who know, or people who are willing&able to learn). One size doesn't fit all, if one wants easy tell them to go for Mandrake, SuSE or Fedora :)
My 2 eurocents ;)
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eandry
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nexus780 wrote:
However a GUI that will do everything for you is IMO not even desirable. Gentoo - and especially ~ Gentoo - is not for the uninterested noob. It is for the ready-and-willing-to-learn noob though, and usually even retarded mistakes get help, at least if it's visible that the noob tried, and having a complete GUI (if that's even possible..) would discourage trying.


Agreed. Otherwise they should use Ubuntu or something. A n00b I am with Gentoo, but not with Linux and Unix.

I think I might try the route suggested in kimchi_sg's sig.

I am curious about what fearofcorners said...

fearofcorners wrote:
As it was, I wanted to start fresh as well. I found it is pretty quick to be up and running from a stage 2 or stage 3 if you've got your old config files for things like xorg, and as long as you set up your /etc/portage/package.* files you can safely update and recompile your whole system with one or two commands.


Before my laptop's HD completely died a few months ago, I managed to backup most of what I considered important config files but neglected to get the portage config files. You mean if I back those up, reinstall stage 2/3, restore the portage config files, and do an emerge -e world I'm set?

Or were you describing another method where I wouldn't have to completely restart from scratch? Having a n00b mentality, I thought I needed to start over because my gcc/glib is so fsck'ed now I have a chicken-or-egg scenerio and doing any more compiles would break things even more. And yes, I tried the gcc-config/fix_libtool_files.sh thing which helped for a while but not completely.
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fearofcorners
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I have no major interest in a portage gui, beyond the fact that a progress bar/eta on compiles would be nifty. I merely speak from the desire to see a linux distro that has the potential to hit mainstream use without becoming bloated, slow and oversimplified (suse anyone?).

eandry wrote:

Before my laptop's HD completely died a few months ago, I managed to backup most of what I considered important config files but neglected to get the portage config files. You mean if I back those up, reinstall stage 2/3, restore the portage config files, and do an emerge -e world I'm set?

Or were you describing another method where I wouldn't have to completely restart from scratch? Having a n00b mentality, I thought I needed to start over because my gcc/glib is so fsck'ed now I have a chicken-or-egg scenerio and doing any more compiles would break things even more. And yes, I tried the gcc-config/fix_libtool_files.sh thing which helped for a while but not completely.


Well I've done it 2 ways. The first time I deleted almost everything, started more or less from strach and just kept my old /etc folder for the most part. The other time I got to the point where my gcc/glibc were compiled with CFLAGS that made them break, among other things. I booted from a livecd, fixed my overly-agressive /etc/make.conf and /etc/portage/package.* files, chrooted, did an emerge -e system, emerge -e world. The only thing was I think it may have created some orphaned files, but I later I used one of the anti-cruft scripts available here to fix it up.

There is in my experience no situation where a gentoo install cannot be salvaged with a livecd, regardless of what silly thing you might have tried. I haven't tried reiser4 though :)
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infirit
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How would one mark packages for a specific ~arch? When i try to emerge for example the gnome 2.10 from bmg all packages are marked ~x86 and not ~amd64.
Code:
!!! One of the following masked packages is required to complete your request:
- app-admin/system-tools-backends-1.1.91 (masked by: missing keyword)
Surely this is possible but i'm having problems getting this done. And I'm getting sick manually editing those ebuilds.

Thanks!

edit: Found a way to do this with ekeyword, from within the bmg overlay:
Code:
find -name '*.ebuild' -exec ekeyword ~amd64 {} \;

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Gherald
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if this has been mentioned but the original post should be edited to reflect that "~x86" and similar are not required in /etc/portage/package.keywords

"app-category/packagename" is all an entry needs.
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GaMMa
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll change it. This should be depricated soon though, there's a guide in Gentoo docs now that's much more in depth. I did this back when people used portage in ways it shouldn't have been used, and it annoyed me. People seem to be following it today though :D.

UPDATE: Actually does adding ~x86 make portage whine? I know when things are masked you have to add another flag, which might unmask it, but wouldn't it still be marked unstable?
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Gherald
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many forum posts already link to this thread. You could add a link to relevant parts of Gentoo docs if you like.
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GaMMa
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea the Gentoo docs say include the ~x86 after the package name in the package.keywords file.
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=3&chap=3

I'm going to leave it as it is :P.
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cant belive im reading this.. how to use portage correctly, if you dont know how to use it, then done use gentoo.
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GaMMa
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually back in the Gentoo 1.4 days when I first made this guide package.* was pretty new (or to me anyway). People used the --upgrade-only flag which was proven to be bad. Lots of people were messing up their systems because some newer packages depended on slotted older versions of other packages. So I thought hey what a great way to give back to Gentoo. So this was here to inform people. Today everyone pretty much knows about package.* because it's been documented so much, but before they didn't.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to defend ACCEPT_KEYWORDS now. There are actually situations in wich I think this is the easiest way to do what I want. An example: The last GLSA was about a security hole in the java JREs. I use blackdown, and the secure version is still masked as unstable. Now I am this sure version will move to stable very soon, so I just emerge the version with ACCEPT_KEYWORDS. (of course, I have a look on what portage wants to emerge as package dependencies in addition to the package itself, which in this case and often enough is nothing) I can have an eye on it when new updates come in. Plus, I don't update my system every three days, only securityupdates go in really fast, everything else has to wait until I have time to fix potentials breakups. So, it doesn't hurt and I have saved another line lor two in my package.keywords, which I probably would forget in there.
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GaMMa
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a huge fan of the ACCEPT_KEYWORDS because it's a pain to emerge -uD world when you have a bunch of packages like that (I upgrade a lot :P). I find it generally better to have a short list of unstable packages added to the package.keywords file that way emerge -uD world passes over them. If you don't upgrade a lot (or on a cron job), or think a package will become stable when you update again then that is a solution (although I still don't recommend it).
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leo.fontenelle
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:58 am    Post subject: Re: How to use portage correctly Reply with quote

GaMMa wrote:
NOTE: It's a lot easier to keep track of packages if you keep this list alphabetized.

One can accomplish that with
Code:
# sort /etc/portage/package.whatever -o /etc/portage/package.whatever

It is very useful if you're adding lines with "echo something >> file".
Don't use "sort file > file", you'll lose data!
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:26 am    Post subject: Re: How to use portage correctly Reply with quote

telurion wrote:
Don't use "sort file > file", you'll lose data!

I learnt that the hard way, with my world file. :(
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:55 pm    Post subject: Me too... also Reply with quote

I did it wrong, at first. But I had just sorted package.use to the console, so I was pretty lucky to be able to select it (thanks gpm!) and cat into package.use again. That's what (almost!) happens to people who don't RTFM and don't even make backups! (me :lol:)
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