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alok
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:31 pm    Post subject: iBook: Old G3 vs New G4 Reply with quote

I'm in the market for a new laptop, and I was wondering if it was worth it to pay for a brand new G4 iBook or look on eBay for an older G3 iBook. Any thoughts on the hardware compatibility with linux, how much of a performance hit I'd be taking? Anything is appreciated.

Thanks.

To clarify more, the G4 iBook would be a 1 GHz, and the G3 iBook would be no less than 800 MHz.
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spitzwegerich
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a G3 iBook 800 MHz, and it is fast enough for everything I do. As far as I know, it needs less energy than the G4.
Also, the airport wlan card of the G3 iBook is supported, while the airport extreme of the G4 is not.
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scruff
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same here. G3 900mhz, 640MB's ram. It is quite fast with a custom compiled Gentoo install. Plus, it is 100% supported including the Airport. Unlike the new G4's that use the Airport Extreme which are not yet 100% supported. Others have simply used a PCMCIA wireless card to get around that, but really... Is it worth the extra $500+? Thats up to you. I do anything I want on my G3, and while it is about half the speed of my Athlon workstation, it is not slow by any means. I was willing to sacrifice a little speed for battery life on the go (around 4 hrs) and also saving $600 :)
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killfire
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ibook g3 800mhz. does everything i need.

and for non-altivec optimized operations, ive heard that the g3 performs equally if not faster than a g4.



your choice, your wallet.
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toojays
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other side of the equation, I have a 1 GHz 12" G4 iBook. If I were buying again, I would probably try and talk myself into buying a 2nd hand 800 MHz G3 instead. The main reasons being that the G3 has support for Airport and (I believe) sleep. OTOH, I bought it new, and with a student deal I got a 3 year warranty in the price, so that's some consolation.

The CPU on the brand new G4 portables is not even supported at full speed on Linux yet. I've been running at 533 MHz since I got it (i.e. 3 weeks now) but it rarely feels slow. Sleep is supposedly coming "real soon now", but it's been that way for a few months now I think. For wireless I use a USB dongle, but in-built Airport card would be way more convenient.
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ruben
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ii also have an iBook g3 800Mhz, with 640Mb RAM.. performance is good enough for me.(the only thing that annoys me a bit is that the startup time of applications seems a bit long, but that's more because of disk speed than because of cpu speed) i don't think that in general you'll see much difference in performance between a G3 800Mhz, and a G4 1000Mhz. (unless you run one specific application 90% of the time that makes heavy use of Altivec) What's probably more important than small differences in cpu speed, is the amount of RAM you have.

I want to warn you though that a series of G3 iBooks has problems with the logic board, due to some production fault. Apple repairs that specific problem for free (for a series of iBooks with specific serial numbers at least), but even though i appreciate that, it is still very annoying. Your portable is gone for some weeks, and you lose time by taking backups,... Mine is in a repair centre right now, for the second time.

EDIT: Also, everything on the iBook G3 is well supported, i use a 2.4 kernel, and things like sleep and cpu frequency scaling work very well. The things i use myself: sleep, cpu frequency scaling, screen brightness, sound, ethernet, usb, 3D hardware acceleration. I haven't used those myself, but Firewire and Airport are well supported. And there is also a driver for the modem, but i believe it doesn't work with 2.6 kernels.


Last edited by ruben on Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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killfire
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to further clarify something that was mentioned. yes, the sleep works on the ibook g3 (revision 2.2 at least, thats what i have)
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alok
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input, the G3 iBook sounds good. Now here's the tricky part, how much would be a fair price to pay for a G3 800 MHz?
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alok
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard that sleep on an iBook G3 works only with a few kernels? Which are they?
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spitzwegerich
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, resume didn't work on 2.6.4. On 2.6.5 - 2.6.6 I had to unload the alsa driver before setting my iBook to sleep. It seems that on 2.6.7 everything works again.
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chrusu
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

:arrow: toojays

which usb-dongle do you use? does it also work with mac os x and maybe even with windows?

chrusu
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toojays
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a dlink DLW-122. I bought it because a few iBook using Gentoo users seem to have them.

However, I must say that although it works, it could be better . . . e.g. you cannot use iwconfig to change settings, because the drivers are somehow different to regular drivers. But it does work, and the drivers are Free Software.

And yes, it comes with a CD for OS X and Windows drivers.
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toojays
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, that should read DWL-122.
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chrusu
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks a lot toojays

do you now more about the sleep-mode? is it supported now?

where do you have your information from? from pbbuttonsd? or from kernel.org?

chrusu
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toojays
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About the sleep . . . I did some Google searches, and what I found was a couple of people saying stuff along the lines of sleep being almost ready, but benh (main kernel guy for Linux on Apples) needs some datasheets from ATI or something before it can be finished. I asked about it on the linuxppc dev this week, but I haven't received a reply yet. Apparently there is a linuxppc IRC channel, you might be able to ask someone about it there.
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soujirou
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so the airport works on a g3 12,1 800mhz ibook ?
but i have to get something.. there is no pcmcia slot on it
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ruben
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a G3 iBook, you need the Airport card (_not_ airport extreme). For installation, you have to lift up the keyboard. Under the keyboard you'll see a slot for the Airport and the connection for the built-in antenna. The Airport card works, you might find this thread useful.
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porodzila
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a g3 powerbook, they are much cooler looking
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soujirou
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so if i get airport card on my g3 ibook i can get a netgear router and use 802.11b/g ? so can sit on the bathroom and chat ?

=)
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ruben
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ummm.. yeah.. i'm not really interested in what you're doing in the bathroom, but that's indeed possible. the Airport is 802.11b (it doesn't do 'g').
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soujirou
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

haaa =) yah thnx ruben
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BennyP
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aww now I feel bad for dropping over CDN$1700 on my iBook G4. My mom's a teacher so I got an eduator discount, but no extended warranty. I figure that linux support will trickle in slowly but steadily, and that's okay by me because right now all I need linux for is JACK in a live performance setting.... And I have my gentoo Workstation to do more of the sound studio kind of stuff. Of course, once Gentoo MacOS is ready for the masses (ie me) it will kick all ass!!

In the mean time I'm running OS X, which handles all my schoolwork and personal files fine just fine. after all it is a really nice piece of software and runs beautifully on this machine. My ony gripe with Mac OS (which is more of a gripe with the mac community) is that there's not enough free software available to run natively, without X11. Maybe I just haven't been looking enough though.

After I load some more RAM into it (I got a 128m SO-DIMM for free from a friend) and buy/build a firewire disk @ 7200 RPM later on, I expect to have some performance increases, but for now, I don't mind waiting for apps to load, seems quite fast enough for me. I've noticed my iBook is quite power hungry though, especially when spinning CD's, which is rather unfortunate because we're trying to save power in this household. Any power saving tips?
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servobf
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:12 pm    Post subject: Kernel 2.6.8_r4 Reply with quote

Someone asked which kernel's work with the iBook:
I have an iBook G3, 800MHz with a radeon 7500.

Sleep works
Accelerated Graphics work
Sound works
DVD playback is great
CD burning works
Network (Airport and Ethernet) Works

The bootsplash patch doesn't work yet (kernel won't compile...) for me.

~Michael
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phil
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iBook G3, 800MHz - 640Megs RAM - 32Megs Video RAM - cdrom
with gentoo-ppc-sources-2.6.7-r12

    sleep works
    accelerated graphics work
    sound works
    network Airport/Ethernet work
    bootsplash works


I too wondered if I should buy or wait for faster models, but I have no regrets. Longer battery life, lower power consumption, airport fully supported were all factors. Yes, the PBs look cooler, but you loose the solid/bulletproof feel of the iBooks IMO. Additionally I have the 'orange flame' MacSkinz added to top things off. Makes meetings at work fun when I see all the dreary black IBMs and Dells!

I just reinstalled last week and love how far along gentoo-ppc have come, great work. Also recommended for speed; reiser, prelink, hdparm and (of course) gentoo!

P
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donni
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I have the brand spankin new 15" Powerbook w/ Superdrive, 128 Mb Radeon 9600 Mobility, 1 gig of DDR with a 1.5ghz processor.... IT RULES!!!

but alas, I work with audio/video every single day so it will pay for itself...


btw, from what I am reading, I shouldn't even bother trying to install a dual boot of gentoo....I guess I'll stick with portage...
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