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which powerbook to buy (does proc. speed matter?)
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gabor
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:54 pm    Post subject: which powerbook to buy (does proc. speed matter?) Reply with quote

hi,

i am playing with the idea to buy a powerbook...

i am not sure if i will use it with mac-osx or with linux...

i know i want one with a 15" display and with 512mb ram (i am a programmer, i need a lot of ram to work).

there are 2 possibilites:
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html


there are 2 15" models.

one with a 1.5ghz processor and one with a 1.33ghz processor.

i have no experience with non-x86 processors...

right nor i am using an acer laptop with a 1.4ghz intel centrino processor.

are those apple processors faster/slower?

i would select the 1.33ghz model, if it's "fast enough"....

so:
how fast are those apple computers? is the 1.33 fast enough?

thanks
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adaptr
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An Intel Centrino is nominally equivalent to a P4 at double the speed.
But a PowerPC is a wholly 64-bit processor, so they're not really comparable in any meaningful sense...

It would make far more sense to compare the memory throughput and HDD I/O throughput, since that is what you'll actually be using.

Processor speed is just not a measure of system speed.
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gabor
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the info.

and...hmm.. what i'd like to know is like.....

is that fast enough? ;)

i know it's hard to answer....

did you make any tests?

like emerge-ing something bigger?

do you think that there is a big diff between 1.33ghz powerbook and 1.5ghz powerbook?
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_savage
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off: PowerPC refers to a family of processors, some of which are 32-bit processors and some are 64-bit. In a PowerBook you will have a G4 processor which is a 32-bit.

As for the speed... I don't think that there is a big difference between 1.33 and 1.5 GHz, but 1.5 sounds cooler ;-) And it's not that much more expensive. From personal experience I can say that a custom compiled Gentoo linux outperforms OS-X. I even noticed the much faster Linux when I was running YellowDog against 10.2.8 on my 1GHz PowerBook.

Depends what sort of applications you want to write, then pick the OS. But hey, you can have dual boot on your machine :-) That's how I use my PowerBook.......

Hope that helps :)
Jens
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snowlander
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a programmer, but I ended up doing a lot of Makefile editing trying to get stuff to compile under OS X. So I partitioned my 40GB disk and installed gentoo. As a user, I am soooo much happier with gentoo than I was with Panther. Gentoo requires much less time and money to update. OS X is just a mess of confusing, half-baked/half-dead package managers/development environments (OS X GNU, Fink, Xcode). Don't buy a PPC just so you can try out OS X. It is a very confusing and frustrating OS to maintain or build 3rd party apps on. However, the UI is very pretty. Also, MOL runs old mac apps way better than Classic, without bringing my ageing powerbook to its knees. (Even Warcraft II works in MOL. war2 and almost every game i used to like chokes and sputters in OS X Classic environment.)
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_savage
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

snowlander wrote:
OS X is just a mess of confusing, half-baked/half-dead package managers/development environments (OS X GNU, Fink, Xcode). Don't buy a PPC just so you can try out OS X. It is a very confusing and frustrating OS to maintain or build 3rd party apps on.


Hehe... I do agree. But to its defense we should not forget what the target niche of OS-X is: mainly graphic/video/sound application, and desktop. For that, and considering that the average OS-X user is a... USER not a programmer, OS-X is fine. Similarly to Windoze: as long as you use it in its dedicated target environment, it really is suitable and does a (mostly) good job.

Linux is a hacker OS. It's more complicated (except you go with wuss distros like DeadRat), but it provides more freedom. Think about what you want to do with you computer, then pick the OS.

Jens
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ruben
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

snowlander wrote:
I'm not a programmer, but I ended up doing a lot of Makefile editing trying to get stuff to compile under OS X. So I partitioned my 40GB disk and installed gentoo. As a user, I am soooo much happier with gentoo than I was with Panther. Gentoo requires much less time and money to update. OS X is just a mess of confusing, half-baked/half-dead package managers/development environments (OS X GNU, Fink, Xcode). Don't buy a PPC just so you can try out OS X. It is a very confusing and frustrating OS to maintain or build 3rd party apps on....

I don't agree with this. I believe OS X is a very very nice OS for the target group that Apple has in mind. Complaining about the fact that you have to edit Makefiles to be able to build applications which were designed for Linux, is like complaining that windows games don't run on linux/freebsd/mac os x. If you want Linux, then just use Linux, but don't expect another OS to try to mimic linux. Hmmm... Gentoo requires much less time and money to update ? Last time i ran "Software Update" on my Mac OS X, Mac OS X itself told me there were updates and asked me to install them... i didn't have to pay for it, and it didn't take a lot of time to hit the "install" button. Agreed, it needed to reboot a couple of times, but well... I do agree about the mess of "confusing, half-baked/half-dead package managers"; i never used Xcode however. I don't think it's a very confusing and frustrating OS to maintain or build 3rd party native Mac OS X applications on.
Personally i use a dual-boot solution, but i'm using gentoo linux about 99% of the time. I know Linux and know how to get stuff done on Linux, I would like to learn Mac OS X better, but I just don't have the time for it right now. And hopefully, Gentoo MacOS will be mature by the time I have time for exploring OS X.

@gabor:

Is it "fast enough" really really depends on your needs... for some people no existing computer is ever gonna be "fast enough". My portable which is a G3 800Mhz iBook is "fast enough" for my needs, allthough for my desktop i like to have something faster. For me, speed isn't the main issue with a portable... "portability" is, and that includes things like weight, battery time, size,...
Trying to do comparisons by emerging applications and seeing whether that makes a difference, is not that useful in my opinion, unless you're a programmer and will be compiling big applications most of the time. A head-to-head comparison in emerging things is not really fair, because the compilers won't be doing the same thing. Compiling for a RISC cpu like G4 is a different thing than compiling for a CISC cpu like x86. Your best bet would be to test the applications you will be using most of the time on an x86 laptop and then on an ppc laptop and see what feels best.
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Fortean
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just bought a Powerbook 12'', and I have the following comments:
1. The G4 is NOT a 64 bit processor. It is 32 bit
2. The G4 is FAST. My powerbook comes with a 1.33GHz G4, and I am truly amazed at how fast that thing is. I was previously using a 667 G3 or something and the difference is truly huge.
3. It is beautiful. It must take a huge effort to break the casing. No cheap plastic here.
4. GET AS MUCH MEMORY AS YOU CAN AFFORD. 256Mb is a joke. After adding 512Mb for a total of 758 Mb I can tell you it is a totally different experience.
5. Play around with MacOs before installing Linux. It is a hugely geek OS, almost everything is exposed to you through the BSD subsystem and between the native X server and tools like fink and gentoo-mac, you have all the tools you will need in an absolutely amazing environment.
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servobf
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a G3 800MHz iBook, and a 1.25 GHz iMac. The iBook is "Fast Enough" . It only has 384 Mb of memory but runs great.

The iMac used to have 256 Mb of ram, and felt slow. Once I plopped annother 512 Mb in there, it was a speed demon. :-)

I'd recomend the 1.33 GHz processor, and use the extra money on some ram.

~Michael
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scoobydu
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would MOL running word for Mac be snappy on a 1.33 powerbook with 768meg memory running on gentoo?

Or does MOL really slow down the powerbook?
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Fortean
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scoobydu wrote:
Would MOL running word for Mac be snappy on a 1.33 powerbook with 768meg memory running on gentoo?

Or does MOL really slow down the powerbook?

Let's put it this way. Running Word through VirtualPC (Windows 2k) is snappy enough so I guess running a native version through MoL should not be a problem...
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ruben
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definitely think that MOL running word for Mac will be snappy on a 1.33Ghz powerbook with 768Mb RAM... Mol does slow a little bit down, but it's not really noticeable. I run it on a 800Mhz G3 iBook with 640Mb RAM, and i use it to see flash-sites, or to play quicktime movies. Those things work smoothly (maybe not really that snappy/zippy, but smooth nonetheless, it plays without any visible slowdown and it 'feels' the same as playing it natively on mac os x) on my iBook. Since running Word for Mac is in no way as resource-intensive as playing flash/movies, word will run just fine.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruben wrote:
I definitely think that MOL running word for Mac will be snappy on a 1.33Ghz powerbook with 768Mb RAM... Mol does slow a little bit down, but it's not really noticeable. I run it on a 800Mhz G3 iBook with 640Mb RAM, and i use it to see flash-sites, or to play quicktime movies. Those things work smoothly (maybe not really that snappy/zippy, but smooth nonetheless, it plays without any visible slowdown and it 'feels' the same as playing it natively on mac os x) on my iBook. Since running Word for Mac is in no way as resource-intensive as playing flash/movies, word will run just fine.


Thanks that's useful ;)

Just out of interest where is the best (most up to date, via cvs etc) place to find the support for a 12" PB? Any other places than right here?

I can't even find info on the latest 2.6.8.1 kernel!? (although I did only start looking for it this morning ;) )
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SeJo
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i gots me a pb 1gigHz, 1 gig ram... 15"
awesome rig...

i'm a developer in a few languages, and need lots of ram also, i would suggest taking at least 756 MB ram...


nice rig, haven't found a rig that is more powerfull then my pb now...


greets
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