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turning
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:54 pm    Post subject: Has Gentoo/PPC been abandoned? Reply with quote

This is a BIG change from the way things were about 14 months ago, when I started out with Gentoo/PPC. The default kernel and LiveCD is now BROKEN, if installed it leaves the system unbootable.

I haven't gotten any help. "Try compiling the latest kernel" "It works for me" is not help. This is very different from Gentoo/PPC last summer, when things were hopping on this forum and even the most obscure problem could be solved in a matter of minutes.

It seems like the developers have abandoned the distro and the only people left posting here are those old timers, like me, who haven't realized that everyone in charge has given up on it.
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turning
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another unpleasant change is in the documentation. It's not that there's not enough documentation, that's definitely not the problem.

I remember using Gentoo in the old days when the documentation was very direct. To compare the docs to computer programs, the difference between the old docs and the new docs is like the difference between a carefully thought out, hand-optimized program by a master programmer and an Open Source program. The former was written by someone who was very user-focused, the latter is written by committee and is very comprehensive, but nobody seems to have the big picture.

I miss the old docs. I would follow them step by step and every step of the way, Daniel Robbins had thought out what I would need to do next and had exactly the right mixture of flexibility and directness needed to move to the next stage of an installation, or a package upgrade, or whatever.

Now I am faced with a very basic problem, the configuration and installation of a kernel, and I really have no idea what to do.
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servobf
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Joined: 03 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:13 am    Post subject: Calm down a second Reply with quote

First off, if you'll calm down a bit it'll help. I noticed your other post was very frantic and didn't include many details about your setup, just that it was broken.

You have to realize that some things are different at this moment. The documentation was changed just a few months back from a focus on the 2.4 kernel to the 2.6. Maybe there are bugs that are still being worked out. Also, while most people have already made the transition to the 2.6 kernel, not everyone has...it too is in transition.

Annother thing is that at least here in the US school just started for both HighSchool and College. Not everyone has the luxury of just hanging out on the forums all day answering your questions. There's a major up-tick in posts on the weekends and at night.

Lastly, if the forums were so great way back when, why didn't you stick arround and help others?

Sincerely,

Michael
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turning
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:56 am    Post subject: Re: Calm down a second Reply with quote

servobf wrote:
First off, if you'll calm down a bit it'll help. I noticed your other post was very frantic and didn't include many details about your setup, just that it was broken.


Actually, I did include details in another post.

Quote:

Lastly, if the forums were so great way back when, why didn't you stick arround and help others?


I did help out, under another moniker which I've forgotten.

Really, the main issue for me is, at this point I don't care if I can't use 2004.1, 2004.2, or whatever. I just want to downgrade to a configuration that works, but I don't even have that option anymore!
I'd be happy to run ancient 2.4 kernels if I could just continue using my system! But portage/Gentoo won't let me do that!
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servobf
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can always download the kernel source from kernel.org, and build from there. All portage does for you is download it for you.
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hgfischer
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Joined: 19 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm having some of this impressions about Gentoo PPC too.

I had posted a lot of questions without usefull answer. Most of times without any answer. Some people try to help, but the "gurus" don't answer...
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Immortal Q
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Joined: 14 Sep 2003
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Location: Silicone Valley

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hgfischer wrote:
I'm having some of this impressions about Gentoo PPC too.

I had posted a lot of questions without usefull answer. Most of times without any answer. Some people try to help, but the "gurus" don't answer...


The 'gurus' suffer from newbie burnout - the same question gets repeated so many times here that most questions are lost in the jumble - the lack of cohesive/comprehensive FAQs just exacerbates the situation.

The deterioration of the main PPC documentation is mostly due to the effort to unify the install guide - instead of having 6-8 guides, each for different platforms, the new, single, guide would merely have a few sections where the instructions would diverge. Unfortunately, more sections diverge than were really expected, so most people screw up the install by following x86-specific directions that aren't clearly marked as such (boot partition, etc)

The kernels are in a constant state of flux, so every time a new one comes out, one user segment or another has issues.

If you want to help, try answering newbie questions on the forums, or even contact the documentation project and offer your time (and/or advice, if wanted) and make things better for other users.

This stuff happens everywhere - the difference with PPC is the much smaller (and more passive?) user base running Gentoo.
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porodzila
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Joined: 22 May 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, if you percieve a problem with documentation, maybe we should organize a Gentoo PPC documentation team.

We could rework all the documentation, starting from the install. Add notes about bugs etc. Then go through the other how-to and modify them accordingly. Then put it all in a nice package and make it available. It wouldn't be too hard if we all contributed a little bit.

I suppose I'll make up a to-do list and post it here later. Then just pm to sign up for a part.
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