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icedevil
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Joined: 29 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:58 am    Post subject: PowerPC or Linux on POWER Reply with quote

GNU/Linux has recently found a new friend with IBM, however IBM has coined all their Linux-centric products Linux on POWER.

Where POWER includes the Power3-5 and PowerPC (which I assume the G3-G5).

As far as I know IBM produces these chips, my question: is the entire concept of Linux on POWER a marketing technique or techincally correct? I'd vote for a marketing technique as all binary packages installed on one of these systems claims to be a ppc build.

The reason for asking this question is due to a potential conflict between the technical side and management side of the company I work for. Obviously management wants to go with the Linux on POWER aspect for everything as it is catchy and IBM-happy however the tech-side would obviously go with what is technically correct.

Any thoughts?
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toojays
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Location: Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's tripping you up is where you assume POWER3-POWER5 equates to G3-G5. They don't. G3-G5 are all PowerPC. POWER3, POWER4, POWER5 and PowerPC are all different architectures.

Also note that IBM doesn't produce G4 chips, all those come from Freescale (formerly Motorola).
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frankOnPPC
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really cannot afford what the problem is....

Linux On Power is based on and begins with the PPC 970 (G5), which is a brother of the Power4+ /light.
The PPC970 (G5) is used by IBM within their JS20 PowerBlades.

So, I guess the base is to start with 64bit, which means PPC970, power4, power5 ....

Is it a marketing - Gag, these power on linux things ?

Hm, I guess, overall after watching it a while, today its a little bit like a joke.

Read, what IBMs said :
Adam Jollans, worldwide Linux strategy manager :
"The IT community needed a Unix-like operating system which could run on Intel servers and Linux met that need,"
( see at http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39168667,00.htm )

So, IBM is committed with Linux at Intel, not on PPC or Power.

Another example ? Follow the DownloadLinks on
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/power/downloads.html
try it, for example, IBM recommend Novell/SuSE SLES. Looks that you can download ? Bullshit, you can't . Its not avaible. You will just find a x86 Port of Novell/SuSE for download.
Is it in general not avaiable ? No, its avaiable, you can buy it.
But you can't evaluate it with a powerMac g5, for example.

Thats the point : it takes time to switch. IBM makes progress, no question.
But, good news, DB/2 is avaible.
So, where is the beef ? If your management are looking for reliable solutions, avaible today, its a good idea to choose intel-boxes from ibm (or AMDs) because their Linux strategy is committed to intel.
No prob with DB/2, Informix, MQSeries, WebSphere, Java, a.s.o.
On Power you have to wait a little bit.

Developer Contest from poweronlinux ...
http://linuxonpower.com/

nice ? isn't it ? So, what box are aviable from ibm with linuxppc64 for "normal human beings" ? Right, the Apple PowerMac G5....

I would think, Linux on Power used in a mission critical environment, in an normal business environment (not within the US-Army, or the NASA, or for dedicated things like satelite-control by Boing, a.s.o, or dedicated as computational - slaves in a grid, I mean dedicated to one or not to much jobs, DB-Cluster, Web-/App Server, a.s.o ) would be an option in 2 or 3 years.

But, OK, AIX5L is not too bad... ;-)

Cheers Frank
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always look at yellow site of Linux on the PPC.
Its PPCNUX.
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iTux
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Joined: 07 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I find funny is that when IBM promotes Linux/PowerPC, there article are around like "Run Linux on Mac hardware" (of course they don't provdide PowerPC hardware for home).

Then there is this university challenges. Several concerns Linux/PowerPC. Guess most people need to use a Mac. Then what they win a Thinkpad. Does that Thinkpad has Windows pre-installed?

IBM should have done PowerPC laptops especially before the arrival of the Centrino kit. Yes the market would have been small but it could have help promotes the PowerPC platform.

Also, for the IBM SDK for Linux/PowerPC, it checks if the CPU is from IBM or Motorola. If it is from Motorola, the JIT segfaults. A hack tells its a CPU from IBM and it works 100%. For x86, don't think IBM checks CPU and make it segfault or others on "untested" CPUs.

iTux
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frankOnPPC
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Joined: 26 May 2003
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Location: Fulda, Hessen, Germany, Europe, Earth

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh,
sorry, try the latest avaible from IBM or via the Gentoo Portage,
they "fixed" it...the java thing
but the intentional idea was ill. so ill....

But anyway, its so, eehm, ah, buggy this java 1.4.2 from them.
javax.ssl...uh, forget it.
lucida-font, forget it
netbeans 4.0 beta2, try it....its funny....try also nb 3.6 with ibm java 1.4.2, oh man, forget it....

I guess, its really build for servers, not for clients.

Cheers Frank
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always look at yellow site of Linux on the PPC.
Its PPCNUX.
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