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Thomas Roberts
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:16 pm    Post subject: Dual Boot Partition Size Reply with quote

I am interested in learning Linux and I have decided to use Gentoo on my 933 Mhz iBook G4 with a 40 GB hard drive. I am using OS X as my day-to-day computer so I need to keep as much disk space as possible for OS X.

Since I am a programmer, my main interest in Linux is from the development side so the only software I would need that is not directly related to program development is Firefox, Open Office/word processor, and a jukebox that can play CDs.

I have read the tutorial on how to install Gentoo using each of the three stages, and I would like to install Gentoo using Stage 1. With that said:

1) What is the recommended/smallest partition I should/can have?

2) Does the size of the partition affect which stage I can use?

3) Once I compile the source code can I remove it from my hard drive?

4) If I were to wipe my drive to start with a clean slate should OS X or Gentoo be installed first?

5) How does dual booting occur with the iBook? Does a menu appear giving me a chance to decide which OS to boot into with a default that occurs x seconds after no input like Windows does?

I am teaching myself Objective-C/Cocoa on my Mac and I would like to take the source code and recompile on Linux.

6) Does anyone know of any books/web sites that shows how to develop for both systems so that I can maximize the base/generic code while also taking advantage of the targeted OS?
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zojas
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

check out the link in my sig. some of your questions are answered there.

oh, and for cocoa portability you will be interested in gnustep for linux.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Dual Boot Partition Size Reply with quote

Thomas Roberts wrote:
I am interested in learning Linux and I have decided to use Gentoo on my 933 Mhz iBook G4 with a 40 GB hard drive. I am using OS X as my day-to-day computer so I need to keep as much disk space as possible for OS X.


As a side note: You might be eventually interested in Mac-on-Linux. It is currently being ported to OS X and it will allow Linux to be run inside OS X. Though the port is still under development.

Thomas Roberts wrote:

1) What is the recommended/smallest partition I should/can have?


With Gentoo you build the system/apps on the system. So it does require additional space (to build stuff) compared to OSes where pre-built apps are installed. Also space to hold the source code.

I currently have 12GB allocated to Gentoo which is enough for my needs. You could go to 10GB, though, it gets more crowed and you need to cleanup things more often.

Plus some space for your home directory + some space for the swap partition.

My 12GB is split in 3 partitions of 4GB divided with this intention: installed apps (/ - root), compilation/temp space (/var) and portage tree + sources (/usr/portage).

And my disk usage:
Code:

/dev/hda12             4128448   3612104    306632  93% /
/dev/hda13             4128448   2338700   1580036  60% /var
/dev/hda14             4128448   2992524    926212  77% /usr/portage
/dev/hda15             8256952   2116084   5721440  27% /home


You can choose to use only 2 partitions: swap + / or 3 (swap + / + /home) which keeps thing simpler. I just want to point out that you need much more space than the "installed base" of apps.


Thomas Roberts wrote:

2) Does the size of the partition affect which stage I can use?


No. The stage determines how much you compile at the beginning. In any case, you should have enough space to compile any package on the system.

Thomas Roberts wrote:

3) Once I compile the source code can I remove it from my hard drive?


The directory where compilation occurs gets removed (by default) if successfully installed.

Source files tarballs do not get removed. This is because sometimes you need to recompile stuff and to reduce bandwith on the mirrors, only the older sources should be removed.

Thomas Roberts wrote:

4) If I were to wipe my drive to start with a clean slate should OS X or Gentoo be installed first?


OS X.

Thomas Roberts wrote:

5) How does dual booting occur with the iBook? Does a menu appear giving me a chance to decide which OS to boot into with a default that occurs x seconds after no input like Windows does?


Yes. It should be explained in the manual how to setup the boot loader.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zojas wrote:
check out the link in my sig. some of your questions are answered there.


Thank you for your web page! I used it when I first installed Gentoo. In particular, the kernel config file helped me a lot.

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zojas
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you're welcome.

I hadn't heard that mac on linux was being ported to OS X, I've been wanting that for a long time!

if you stay away from large packages like kde and openoffice (which I know is one of the things you wanted to try out) you can get by with a much smaller gentoo partition. mine on my ibook is only 3.7gb right now, and I think I have about 900mb free. (openoffice-bin is about 220mb). also, if you have 512mb of ram or more, you could do without a swap file unless you have something you know for sure will be using lots of ram.

iTux: have you seen the '-h' flag to df? makes the output easily readable.

also, I'm a bit surprised at all the disk usage you have in /var. even on my server, I only have about 491mb used in /var. granted, when a large package is being compiled, more space is used, but portage clears that up as soon as the emerge completes. you might want to do a 'du /var|sort -n' to see what is taking up all the space. (maybe you have a failed compile in /var/tmp/portage?)

you also may be interested in either tmpreaper (the one from debian, which I use) or tmpwatch (from redhat). they are programs designed to run in the cron. they delete files which haven't been accessed in a certain amount of time. handy for /tmp, /var/tmp/, and /usr/portage/distfiles. (I set the timeout for tmp dirs to 10 days, for distfiles 2 months)
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zojas wrote:
you're welcome.

I hadn't heard that mac on linux was being ported to OS X, I've been wanting that for a long time!


Some people had limited success booting some OS (I think OS 9 or OS X on OS X). But still not ready.

zojas wrote:

iTux: have you seen the '-h' flag to df? makes the output easily readable.


I usually don't mind reading it as block sizes are 1K :). I guess I got used to it. I don't like other Unixes that display it in blocks of 512 bytes.

zojas wrote:

also, I'm a bit surprised at all the disk usage you have in /var. even on my server, I only have about 491mb used in /var. granted, when a large package is being compiled, more space is used, but portage clears that up as soon as the emerge completes. you might want to do a 'du /var|sort -n' to see what is taking up all the space. (maybe you have a failed compile in /var/tmp/portage?)


I have my compiler cache under /var/tmp... 568MB and 1.4GB of failed compilation. Yes, I should do some cleanup. That's why I separate /var, /usr/portage and /. I know when its time to cleanup :)

zojas wrote:

you also may be interested in either tmpreaper (the one from debian, which I use) or tmpwatch (from redhat). they are programs designed to run in the cron. they delete files which haven't been accessed in a certain amount of time. handy for /tmp, /var/tmp/, and /usr/portage/distfiles. (I set the timeout for tmp dirs to 10 days, for distfiles 2 months)


Very interesting. I installed it and I will look at it.


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Thomas Roberts
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:37 pm    Post subject: Stages question Reply with quote

Thanks for all the help. When I went to the following page:

http://cudlug.cudenver.edu/gentoo/releases/ppc/2004.1/stages/

it had links to other pages that contained the different stages. When I clicked on the 'g4' link the page it sent me to did not have a link to download stage 1. I then clicked on the 'ppc' link which sent me to a page that did allow me to download stage 1. Would I be better off getting the stage 2 from the 'g4' link than the stage 1 from the 'ppc' link? I am guessing that the three stages in the 'ppc' link are generic to the PPC platform and the stages in the 'g3', 'g4', and 'g5' links have been optimised for those specific platforms.

I have seen 'dev', 'usr', 'home', 'etc', among others, as names for partitions. Are these reserved words or a naming convention, and can I make up my own names for partitions to meet my specific wants/needs?

I read that KDE is popular in Europe, but GNOME is popular in America. Other than being different windowing systems, is there any real benefit to having one over the other? Regardless of which one I use am I going to have to make sure software I install is written for the GUI I am using or does it not matter?
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zojas
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

both gnome and kde are popular in general. you'll have to try them both and see which one you like. I prefer kde over gnome personally, but I typically use neither. I really like a setup like blackbox or ratpoison (http://www.desertsol.com/~kevin/ratpoison). but I'm kind of an uber-commandline guy too, you will probably appreciate something like kde when you're just starting to learn linux.

if you read these forums a lot, you will see a lot of people who change their entire graphical environment as often as they change underwear. it's easy to change fortunately, that's why people do it so much.

a lot of software has optional features to interact with kde or gnome (the kde and gnome USE flags). while trying them out, you could just turn on both USE flags, then when you decide between the two, turn one of the USE flags off.

in general, you can run any program in either environment. some programs may require one or the other as dependencies (for example, you can't run juk without kde being installed, but you can still run juk while you're logged in to gnome).

as for usr, var, home, etc, that is all required layout type stuff. in your home directory, though, you can pretty much do anything you want. (typically /home/username/ is your home directory) you can set up disk partitions to hold those directories however you want. but for now, it would probably be easiest for you to just use one big partition, follow the install guide closely. later once you know your way around better you can always back up your files to another disk, re-partition, and restore your files if you want to have multiple partitions.

there should be a live cd somewhere that has all the stages on it. I'll look later this morning if I get a chance. look for a livecd that is over 300mb in size, that will probably be the one with the stages included. I would definitely recommend doing a stage 3 install, and use GRP packages at first, then you get to use the system right away. you can always start things updating in the background while doing other stuff with the computer.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

for some reason, the 2004.2 livecd seems awfully scarce. I couldn't find it at all in fact. you can get the 2004.1 cd from here though:

http://gentoo.ccccom.com/releases/ppc/2004.1/livecd/install-ppc-universal-2004.1.iso

that one should have all the stages on it. if you want to install via stage 1, you can use this smaller image:

http://gentoo.ccccom.com/releases/ppc/2004.1/livecd/install-ppc-minimal-2004.1.iso

it doesn't really matter which livecd you install from. after you get a working install, you can update to the absolute newest version of everything with 'emerge sync && emerge -uD world'
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Thomas Roberts
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:08 am    Post subject: Gentoo Live CD Reply with quote

zojas,

Thank you for your help. I think I will have one 5 GB partition and since I have 640 MB of RAM I won't need a swap partition. I do not really need Open Office but I do want at least a text editor so I can write notes as I am learning. I am using the VI editor to enter my Objective-C programs while in OS X so if Linux comes with the VI editor I will be satisfied. I will follow your suggestion and get the LiveCD with all three stages on it.

Now I have to get my 15 GB iTunes library and all my records, software, etc moved over to my Windows 2000 before I wipe my drive.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: Gentoo Live CD Reply with quote

Thomas Roberts wrote:

I do not really need Open Office but I do want at least a text editor so I can write notes as I am learning. I am using the VI editor to enter my Objective-C programs while in OS X so if Linux comes with the VI editor I will be satisfied. I will follow your suggestion and get the LiveCD with all three stages on it.


Open Office is very big to simple take notes :)

You will be able to install vi easily (with "emerge vi"), once you will have installed the system.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is there a 'vi' ebuild? I always use vim (Vi IMproved). there are a couple of vim ebuilds. the one called 'vim' will install the command line version. the one called 'gvim' will install a gui version which is an X11 client (this is my preferred one, but I sometimes use the command line version as wel)

gvim by default comes with a gtk2 interface which allows you to use anti-aliased fonts with it. (I usually use the athena widgets version which obeys the .Xdefaults file)

if you want the gtk version, you can probably just 'emerge gvim' and that's what you'll get (the way to check is to run 'emerge -av gvim', and look for gtk2 in the gvim line)

if you want to try out the athena widgets version, you can install gvim like this:

Code:

USE="-gtk -gtk2 -motif" emerge gvim


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

is there any difference (advantages, disadvantages, if there any) between installing os x on the first partition, gentoo on the second partition and vice versa
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eahawk wrote:
is there any difference (advantages, disadvantages, if there any) between installing os x on the first partition, gentoo on the second partition and vice versa


No.

The order does not matter on the disk unless there are performance advantages if closer to the center or other? I read about this somewhere but don't know if true... and if yes, if there is any major gain.

In the partition table, the bootstrap partition must appear before the OS X partition. The OpenFirmware boots the first bootable partition in the list.

I say in the partition table because the partitions does not need to in the same order in the partition table than on the disk.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the performance at the beginning of the disk is better, as far as i know..
thats why I wasted hours for a patition scheme, but i think theres a great diference :roll:

Cenrim, who maybe will getsoon an iBook himself ^^
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