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artificio
Apprentice
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Joined: 15 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob P, those sound like some valid points, is there way way to find out how many routers there are and who they're controlled by? Couldn't every node log the other nodes it's connected to, and send this info to a central server, a roadmap of the network.
I know this defeats the purpose of the network atm... but if this were done rarely it might help determine if any large groups have the ability to capture enough information to render the network useless.
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spengy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob P wrote:
i've got a question about this -- after reading the background information on the Tor website, what makes everyone think that using Tor increases your privacy instead of decreasing it?

some things to consider:

1. Tor was developed by the ONR and DARPA. :!:
2. By passing your information through Tor, users are collectively facilitating the creation of a centrallized data repository, thereby facilitating data mining through traffic analysis.
3. Whoever controls the routers controls your data -- they also have the ability to log interesting packet content to a database and mine it.
4. Who has the resources to provide this kind of service, what its their motive, and why should you trust them?
5. Just because I know they're out to get me doesn't mean I'm paranoid. :D

is this the IP-based equivalent of Echelon? :idea:


I don't think so ;) Why do people run TOR nodes? Because they believe in this kind of thing. I would run one, but I have very crappy upload speeds. You don't need much. 20 KB/s up is the minumum they want for a TOR server. There are very flexible bandwidth limiting options. Please, anyone with the resources who is interested in this sort of thing, run a node. The TOR network needs them.

About your privacy concerns though: It is possbile that some routers in the network can see your data. The hidden services (which I think is the BEST feature of TOR) are encrypted end-to-end though.
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ahubu
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post, I remember using it when this was posted, and it was very slow (unusably slow). It's much better today, even though it can still be slow at times. I find it very convenient to use in combination with the quickproxy extension in firefox, a small button that lets you turn the proxy on/off with one click.
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tuber
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Joined: 12 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could those of you who have Tor and Privoxy working with no problems please take a look at one of my problems: https://forums.gentoo.org//viewtopic-t-410283-highlight-.html Thanks.
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reteo
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Joined: 26 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob P wrote:
i've got a question about this -- after reading the background information on the Tor website, what makes everyone think that using Tor increases your privacy instead of decreasing it? Is this the IP-based equivalent of Echelon? :idea:


Well, I'm inclined to think that if something was a trick to falsely secure privacy, the EFF would have figured it out by now and not supported it. Add to that the fact that the protocol and the software is open source, and there are two good reasons right there.

For quotas and/or banlist workarounds, I'm afraid that the only workarounds are to convince more people to run tor exit nodes.

And as for making Tor/Privoxy work on a LAN, I keep it in a simple chain:

* Tor accesses the internet.
* Privoxy accesses tor on Localhost. (I also use the Neil Van Dyke ruleset)
* Squid accesses privoxy on Localhost (I also found there are a few pieces of configuration that eliminates some cracks, such as the VIA reference used by Firefox)
* Squid is then configured to accept connections from the LAN... or, in a paranoid case, I can require a login.

The only problem with this model is that while the sessions are virtually untraceable, the DNS queries are not.
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truekaiser
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Joined: 05 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob P wrote:
i've got a question about this -- after reading the background information on the Tor website, what makes everyone think that using Tor increases your privacy instead of decreasing it?

some things to consider:

1. Tor was developed by the ONR and DARPA. :!:
2. By passing your information through Tor, users are collectively facilitating the creation of a centrallized data repository, thereby facilitating data mining through traffic analysis.
3. Whoever controls the routers controls your data -- they also have the ability to log interesting packet content to a database and mine it.
4. Who has the resources to provide this kind of service, what its their motive, and why should you trust them?
5. Just because I know they're out to get me doesn't mean I'm paranoid. :D

is this the IP-based equivalent of Echelon? :idea:


not to mention many major sites ban on sight when they detect this. especaily many fourms because this is used by spamers..
and yes since tor was developed by the military imho there is some sort of backdoor or purposefull flaw built into the system so it can't be used agenst them. so basicly the people you most likely want to hide from will be the same people your most visable too.
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Houdini
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Joined: 14 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*sigh*

So, I run a Tor server that does about 300 GB/month of traffic. I'm also an EFF donor. You could say I have an interest in it.

First of all, TOR is currently an EFF project. While I haven't scoured the source myself, I have talked to at least one of the developers for it. While there is the possibility that there are some backdoors, I find it unlikely. The EFF is a group that values privacy. Remember that the intent of TOR is to allow people safe anonymity from their governments as well as from citizens. People in China use this thing to speak their minds. People in the US use it to safely blow whistles on dangerous practices in their workplaces, even if that workplace is the US government. If you're the sort of person that believes that the NSA/FBI/whoever can break PGP effortlessly and can snoop on your SSH sessions, TOR isn't much help. If that's not you, it's probably safe.

Second, a request. Don't be a jackass. I don't run this to allow you to download music without the RIAA knowing about it. I don't run it to allow you to hassle IRC networks or forums. I run it for freedom of speech. While I won't monitor what goes on in it, I will block obvious abuses such as most filesharing clients. Yes, I know, there's the possibility that someone needs to spread some vital freedom of speech material via BitTorrent. It's not likely.

Fitting in with the above, don't break in to shit via TOR. I know, it sounds like the perfect way to hide a crime. Doing so may result in individual servers being taken down, either by legal force or just because they don't want to talk to the FBI anymore.

If you value what TOR does (protecting freedom of speech), don't abuse it.
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RogerPhuket
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm running Firefox 1.5.0.1, TOR 0.1.16, TORCP 0.0.4, Privoxy 3.0.3 and SwitchProxy 1.3.4 (a Firefox extension) on Windows XP SP2.

My apologies if this is not the right forum to ask this question.

TOR works fine EXCEPT that I can't get Firefox to ignore TOR and Privoxy for IP addresses that I don't want to go through TOR and Privoxy. These addresses are accessed using the "Edit" function in the "SwitchProxy" toolbar: it displays a "Proxy Info" window that has a box labelled "No proxy for:" and contains, by default, "localhost, 127.0.0.1". I've added other IP addresses so that the box now contains: "localhost, 127.0.0.1, *google.com*, *hotmail*, *loginnet.passport*"... and a few others.

But all these addresses still go through Privoxy - I can see them being accessed in the Privoxy window.

When I use Internet Explorer, these sites do NOT go through Privoxy and TOR after I change the Control Panel/Internet Options/Connections/LAN Settings/Advanced/Exceptions" box to contain the same names (but separated by semi-colons): "*google.com*; *hotmail*; *loginnet.passport*"

I could keep tinkering, but I wondered if anyone could point me in the right direction?

For example, where - in TOR - is the exception list? Can I edit it there rather than use the Edit function of the SwitchProxy extension.
Or, have I got the syntax wrong in the "No Proxy for:" box?

Any help gratefully received!
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Erlend
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 4:21 pm    Post subject: Tor client without server Reply with quote

Just so that I am absolutely certain that I am not running a tor node, could someone please explicitly tell me what change I would make to the config files if I did want to run a tor server please?
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tek0
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Joined: 09 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I setup privoxy and tor on my router, set tor to bind to localhost and privoxy to forward to localhost:9050 and listen to 192.168.168.1:8118, which is my LAN. I'm trying to use it from 192.168.168.3, and I can do things like toggling privoxy over the web interface, which also tells me privoxy would be up and running, but when I access http://www.privoxy.org/config/ , I am told that "Privoxy is not being used.", even from the router, and with forwarding to tor disabled.
Connecting to web pages is incredibly slow and cookies seem to be filtered strongly, so I assume it's sort of working...
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softwind
Tux's lil' helper
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Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The support guys at IRC says that Tor should be started before privoxy. But the rc-update thing always start privoxy then Tor.

Is this going to be a problem?

Also, I recently updated to the latest stable version in portage. And when it starts in rc-update, it gives me 2 additional notices. Before the update, I only got the "Do not rely on it for strong anonymity" or something. Now I am also getting a "libevent version 1.1a" and "connection_create_listener." Is this suppose to happen in the new version? Or did something go wrong when I updated?
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xiando
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:10 am    Post subject: The exit nodes Reply with quote

artificio wrote:
Bob P, those sound like some valid points, is there way way to find out how many routers there are and who they're controlled by? Couldn't every node log the other nodes it's connected to, and send this info to a central server, a roadmap of the network. I know this defeats the purpose of the network atm... but if this were done rarely it might help determine if any large groups have the ability to capture enough information to render the network useless.


The Tor exit nodes can log what websites they connect to and pull down.

I use way too much money on running 5 high-bandwidth Tor exit nodes. Because I believe in anonymity.

For all I know, DoD-controlled NSA are running 20. They probably are.

Now. I can log everything exiting from my 5 exit nodes. But I would not be able to know who are pulling those pages/that traffic. I would only be able to see that someone out there are pulling these pages. Thus; the data would not only be useless, it would be dangerous to log it: If someone were to look at the Tor servers logs, they would see that this server has been accessing whatever. Which is why honest Tor operators generally want to log as little as possible. But my main point is that those running exit nodes who do want as much information as possible can not see who is asking for the traffic they are monitoring.

However, if you monitor someones, say your, Internet connection AND you are running the exit node that node is exiting for then you would be able to match A going from your node with B going from the exit. Which is why we always need more exit nodes. :D See, if DoD is monitor your Internet connection and there's 700 exit's they are not watching then .. well, you're quite safe that they can't see anything but Tor traffic which makes no sense to them from your exit.

Does the Tor source code have back-doors? The only way to find out is to look at it and check it for yourself. I haven't done that, for all I know it could be filled with NSA terrorism. But being it's open source I assume that if someone had found a back-door they'd exposed it; which is also the reason I find it not likely there is one in there. But as said, if you're wondering, go check.
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theNewGuy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm trying to get tor to work on my linux system, but have had no success so far. I followed the instructions in the wiki and installed tor 0.1.1.23 and privoxy. Then I set up firefox to use privoxy with torbutton.

When I switch tor on I can't visit any web sites. Everything I type into the address bar (URLs, IPs) takes me to the same page. The page says:

Quote:
404
This is Privoxy 3.0.3 on my.COMPUTER (127.0.0.1), port 8118, enabled
No such domain

Your request for http://www.google.com/ could not be fulfilled, because the domain name www.google.com could not be resolved.

This is often a temporary failure, so you might just try again.


(Of course, not every address is google.)

I can't figure out what's wrong here. I followed the relevant parts of the howto in the wiki, but it's not working. Can anyone help me out?
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yesi
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi,

i've just discovered the " hidden service" and i don't think that i need tor to go the internet.
but i try to understand tor and the "hidden service" to run irc, especially to go to irc.freenode.net with irssi.
there's http://freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml that explain how to do it but i didn't really understand it...

would someone explain me that?
the one thing i'd like to try is to access to Freenode via Tor...

thanks in advance.
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gubbs
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BUMP!

Thanks for this. I followed the steps and had a SOCKS 5 proxy routing all my traffic through Tor within minutes.

I now run a Tor node (donating 20kb/s up/down 24/7) and enjoy the benefits of more secure internet usage.

Couple of points to emphasize to would-be users:

1.Read the Tor overview before deciding this is for you:

http://tor.eff.org/overview.html.en

2. Tor is not something you should rely on as a total anonymiser solution.
Use SSL as well to cover your entry and exit. Also be aware virtual machines ie JAVA can
open up tunnels of their own and broadcast/snitch on you. Web browsers (javascript), p2p software etc.

Everything discussed in this thread is food for thought. If you really have something to hide, this isn't the solution.

Remember, anyone can become a Tor server/node.

Its not going to protect you against a co-ordinated and determined attack.

Its more than adequete to keep you private at home and play and on IRC, MSN etc.

3. Think about donating some bandwidth and becoming a server!

So what should I expect if I run a server?

If you run a Tor server that allows exit connections (such as the default exit policy), it's probably safe to say that you will eventually hear from somebody. Abuse complaints may come in a variety of forms. For example:

* Somebody connects to Hotmail, and sends a ransom note to a company. The FBI sends you a polite email, you explain that you run a Tor server, and they say "oh well" and leave you alone. [Port 80]
* Somebody tries to get you shut down by using Tor to connect to Google groups and post spam to Usenet, and then sends an angry mail to your ISP about how you're destroying the world. [Port 80]
* Somebody connects to an IRC network and makes a nuisance of himself. Your ISP gets polite mail about how your computer has been compromised; and/or your computer gets DDoSed. [Port 6667]
* Somebody uses Tor to download a Vin Diesel movie, and your ISP gets a DMCA takedown notice. See EFF's Tor DMCA Response Template, which explains to your ISP why it can probably ignore the notice without any liability. [Arbitrary ports]

You might also find that your Tor server's IP is blocked from accessing some Internet sites/services. This might happen regardless of your exit policy, because some groups don't seem to know or care that Tor has exit policies. (If you have a spare IP not used for other activities, you might consider running your Tor server on it.) For example,

* Because of a few cases of anonymous jerks messing with its web pages, Wikipedia is currently blocking many Tor server IPs from writing (reading still works). We're talking to Wikipedia about how they might control abuse while still providing access to anonymous contributors, who often have hot news or inside info on a topic but don't want to risk revealing their identities when publishing it (or don't want to reveal to local observers that they're accessing Wikipedia). Slashdot is also in the same boat.
* SORBS is putting some Tor server IPs on their email blacklist as well. They do this because they passively detect whether your server connects to certain IRC networks, and they conclude from this that your server is capable of spamming. We tried to work with them to teach them that not all software works this way, but we have given up. We recommend you avoid them, and teach your friends (if they use them) to avoid abusive blacklists too.

http://tor.eff.org/faq-abuse.html.en#HowMuchAbuse

Thanks again for the great heads-up!

As far as I can tell, the gentoo method of installing and configuring is the easiest there is. Good to know. ;)
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bobber205
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can someone explain to me legitimate reasons to use this?
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Beetle B.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know it's an old post, but I couldn't let it end with this question:

Quote:
Can someone explain to me legitimate reasons to use this?


I'll suggest the obvious: Browsing the Web.
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