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Bob P
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kimchi_sg wrote:
Bob P wrote:
i would not use installation media that is older than that required for this installation method. you need to have the right version of the Stage 3 Tarball, or you should expect that the installation will break.

I oppose you on this point.

/me clutches tightly his trusty 2004.3 minimal liveCD. :lol:

its about fault tolerance. the guide is specifically written based on a series of test installations that were performed with a specific release of the gentoo minimal CD. if you go substututing an earlier release of the gentoo minimal CD in its place without testing it, you do so in the hope that nothing will break. that is an assumption that i am not willing to make -- potentially at someone else's expense.

that alternative installation medium referenced earlier is untested, is unproofed, and is unsupported by the guide. like you've said before, you need to pick an installation method and follow it dogmatically. changing installation media to something other than what has been tested amounts to asking for trouble. if it should turn out that the alternative media works well, you get lucky. if it turns out that the alternative installation media doesn't work well, you've wasted an awful lot of time -- much more than it would have taken to just download the right .ISO image in the first place.

the correct .ISO image is only 50 MB. that's a small download in the realm of gentoo downloads. in my opinion, it is better to recommend a tried and true technique than it is to speculate when giving someone advice.

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Bob P
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kimchi_sg wrote:
evapilot wrote:
...if you use -mcpu in the first toolkit compile, ...it fails half way through with a warning to change to mtune.

@Bob P: How about taking -mcpu out of the CFLAGS altogether? This is not the first time I've seen CFLAGS="-mcpu..." b0rk the gcc 3.4.3 emerge.


I see absolutely no need to worry about removing CFLAGS="-mcpu=<whatever>", as it does not exist anywhere in this Guide. :wink:


as far as modifying the CFLAGS goes, there seems to be a recurring theme wherein less experienced users like to recommend emasculating the installation method by taking shortcuts in the interest of finishing the installation quickly. (unfortunately, the other guy that recommended such a course of action got embarassed and erased his post, so there isn't much reference material remaining in this thread about the subject).

the people who recommend speedier installation methods don't seem to fully appreciate the virtues of building fault-tolerance into the system via redundant compilation. IME it is absolutely false economy to trade off fault-tolerance in order to speed-up the installation.

if anyone is especially interested in the pursuit of such gains in speed and economy, my recommendation would be to do what i did -- devise your proposed method of installing gentoo, and then perform test installations on a heterogeneous group of computers. then report back to us when you've developed a fault-tolerant installation method that is better than what is currently available. then start a thread in this forum and let a few other people alpha test your installation method. when you've achieved a high degree of success, you'll know that you're onto something. in the interim, if your proposed changes result in b0rkage halfway through a GCC compilation, consider that it may be a sign that the idea may not have been well-conceived. :idea:
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thebigslide
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well put, Bob, I completely agree.
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SaFrOuT
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:35 pm    Post subject: what shall i do Reply with quote

now gcc-3.5 is the main gcc in the ~x86 section

shall i use it or stick to gcc-3.4 ????

i am installing gentoo now using this guide and i don't know what shall i do
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be an intersting thread to create, but this thread is about Bob P's method, I believe. gcc 3.5 is too new for me, because some packages may not have been tested thoroughly with any given release. Maybe I'd try it on a box where downtime is not such a big deal. Bob P's method using gcc 3.4.3-r1 has had good success with me (3 different boxes). This thread is in my bookmarks.
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SaFrOuT
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so r u saying to stick to gcc-3.4?
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kimchi_sg
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.

If you are planning to use this installation method, stick to it 100% and do not deviate from it in any way, from start to reboot.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry for bothering but now emerge want to install gcc-3.4.3-20050110 not the r1 version
should i let it do so or should i stick to the r1 version ?

edit: i used gcc-3.4.3-r1 anyway and added the 20050110 version to package.mask
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Arainach
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in the middle of completely re-doing my system with reiserfs and this guide (As opposed to ext3 and my old Stage1), and I have the same issue. I've heard too many scary things about 3.4.3.20050110 (even though there's an apparent speed boost) to try it, so I'm hard masking it and sticking to 3.4.3-r1. Unfortunatley, by the time I noticed which version was compiling, it was done, so I had to unmerge it and now re-emerge gcc-3.4.3-r1. Oh well.
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Arainach
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also: Is there any particular reason that gcc-config is not re-emerged in step 7.2.4? I've been following the guide to the letter and so left it out, but it would seem to make sense to rebuild it with the rest of the toolkit. Is this a mistake, or is there a valid reason for it?
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SaFrOuT
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think cause it is by default is re-emerged when doing emerge -e system

and it was re-emerged with the toolkit cause gcc-config won't be used in building the system as gcc or glibc but it is only used for changing bet. gcc version so re-emerging it for 2 times won't give any better per.
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thebigslide
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob, would it make sense to add a line:
Code:
echo '>sys-devel/gcc-3.4.3-r1' >> /etc/portage/package.mask'
to the howto? It implies the answer to the above question. Just a thought.
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DrWoland
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every time I read this thread, I'm tempted to just re-install. MUST RESIST.
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kimchi_sg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrWoland wrote:
Every time I read this thread, I'm tempted to just re-install. MUST RESIST.

Give it up, your system will thank you for making it run faster. :-P
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kimchi_sg wrote:
DrWoland wrote:
Every time I read this thread, I'm tempted to just re-install. MUST RESIST.

Give it up, your system will thank you for making it run faster. :-P


Ehhh It's pretty damn fast now man. I don't think anything's been significantly upgraded since my last install (2 weeks ago), so I'm just gonna wait probably till May, when school gets out, to start trying new stuff again.
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kimchi_sg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrWoland wrote:
kimchi_sg wrote:
DrWoland wrote:
Every time I read this thread, I'm tempted to just re-install. MUST RESIST.

Give it up, your system will thank you for making it run faster. :-P


Ehhh It's pretty damn fast now man. I don't think anything's been significantly upgraded since my last install (2 weeks ago), so I'm just gonna wait probably till May, when school gets out, to start trying new stuff again.

Go put your system on edge...
  1. Try out emerge world with the CFLAGS I posted here
  2. Set ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86" and then emerge -uDv --newuse world

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Arainach
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must admit, this guide is AMAZING. I had been using a regular Stage1 gcc 3.3.5 system before, and after completing this guide, I sat down, emerged X.org, and just about choked when it finished in about half an hour. The system is RIDICULOUSLY faster.
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Lucifeer
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im currently running this type of installation on my 1.2ghz Celeron laptop and the only problem I had was when re-emerging libdc++ during the "emerge -e system"-step, for some reason it refused to be compiled and gave me an error. Switching to gcc-3.3.4 for this package and abusing emerge --resume to switch to gcc-3.3.4 with gcc-config for this package was the workaround for me...

It's still not 100% done with "emerge -e system" but all other packages seams to compile fine with gcc-3.4.3

Wonder if that package will create future problems now =/ Oh well all I can do is wait
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lucifer: Be sure that you're using gcc-3.4.3-r1, not gcc-3.4.3.20050110. 20050110 has many problems with compiling various projects, and is now the default for ~x86 if you don't manually mask it in /etc/portage/package.mask. You'll have problems down the road if you don't change that now.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as mentioned before this guide is really 100% AMAZING

i just finsihed installing Gentoo few hours ago using it and emerged Xorg also and gonna emerge the rest tonight will sleeping

again and again and again THANKS a lot Bob P for this wonderful and clean guide and please keep it up2date for every new gentoo user or re-installer to be able to use it :)

thanks again :)
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DrWoland
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kimchi_sg wrote:
DrWoland wrote:
kimchi_sg wrote:
DrWoland wrote:
Every time I read this thread, I'm tempted to just re-install. MUST RESIST.

Give it up, your system will thank you for making it run faster. :-P


Ehhh It's pretty damn fast now man. I don't think anything's been significantly upgraded since my last install (2 weeks ago), so I'm just gonna wait probably till May, when school gets out, to start trying new stuff again.

Go put your system on edge...
  1. Try out emerge world with the CFLAGS I posted here
  2. Set ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86" and then emerge -uDv --newuse world


Already using your CFLAGS ;) except the packages that refuse to compile with them. Don't wanna do ~x86 because I use this computer for school and can't afford to have it out of commission at random.

It's plenty fast enough for me, since I did this install on Resier4 as well.
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Lucifeer
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arainach wrote:
Lucifer: Be sure that you're using gcc-3.4.3-r1, not gcc-3.4.3.20050110. 20050110 has many problems with compiling various projects, and is now the default for ~x86 if you don't manually mask it in /etc/portage/package.mask. You'll have problems down the road if you don't change that now.
damn gcc-3.4.3.20050110 is exactly the version I have. This should be noted in the guide :)


Sigh and I who thought I would be done with this soon =/


Last edited by Lucifeer on Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lucifeer wrote:
Arainach wrote:
Lucifer: Be sure that you're using gcc-3.4.3-r1, not gcc-3.4.3.20050110. 20050110 has many problems with compiling various projects, and is now the default for ~x86 if you don't manually mask it in /etc/portage/package.mask. You'll have problems down the road if you don't change that now.
damn gcc-3.4.3.20050110 is exactly the version I have. This should be noted in the guide :)


Yeah I'm probably waiting for 3.5 or at lesat like 3.4.5 to upgrade my toolchain.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lucifeer wrote:
Arainach wrote:
Lucifer: Be sure that you're using gcc-3.4.3-r1, not gcc-3.4.3.20050110. 20050110 has many problems with compiling various projects, and is now the default for ~x86 if you don't manually mask it in /etc/portage/package.mask. You'll have problems down the road if you don't change that now.
damn gcc-3.4.3.20050110 is exactly the version I have. This should be noted in the guide :)


Sigh and I who thought I would be done with this soon =/
I did the same thing; I got done compiling gcc when I noted the odd date flag, and sure enough I had the wrong version. 20050110 was hard masked for a LONG time; IMHO it still should be.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So a recompile of gcc-3.4.3 thru gcc-3.3.4 and then a emerge -e system would be enough? or would I need another day to begin from scratch? :(
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