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Bob P
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebigslide wrote:
I never use O3. It is slower than O2 in terms of interactivity because it makes things too BIG. O3 is only good on systems with TONS of RAM (1GB or more).

after benchmarking a collection of obsolete PCs with acovea, i agree with robmoss that outperformance by -Os on older processors is nothing more than a myth.

my experience has been that -O3 outperforms -Os even on lowly pentium systems with the recommended minimum amount of memory. the only time that this isn't the case is when you're dealing with extremely small embedded systems. but we're going off on a tangent again. this subject has already been beaten to death in Portage & Programming.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question, lead this guide to a complete system rebuild? You said if I have an other arch than x86 I should choose that. That's ok, but I wanted to try out an experimental 2005.0 Stage-3 x86 Tarball. But I have an athlon xp, so will everything be rebuilt?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Bob P
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:!: GUIDE UPDATED TODAY. :!:

- PDF sync'd with Installation Guide
- Revised Section 9.4 to clarify the installation of the Gentoo grub splash screen
- Revised Section 9.7 to add example of "wheel" group user
- Plugged the hielvc/MindEraser emerge wrapper
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to say thank you Bob P for a wonderful guide. Took me ~3 days, but I got it up and running. Still having some issues, but those are being slowly ironed out. Keep up the good work.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bob, thanks for that guide!! got it running easily w/o any problems!!! (even with heavy optimization flags)
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should truly thank Bob for taking the time to make this tutorial and letting me in on the Gentoo world. It took me roughly 6 days of trial and error but thank you nonetheless Bob :)
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Bob P
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:!: PLEASE NOTE: A new thread has been opened in the Installing Gentoo forum for the purpose of handling support requests for this installation method. The thread may be found here:

Stage 1 on a 2004.3 Stage 3 Tarball Support Thread.

PLEASE POST ALL SUPPORT REQUESTS TO THE SUPPORT THREAD.

No support questions should be posted here.
In addition, I will no longer respond to any Personal Messages asking for support.

Good luck with your installation, and Have Fun with your new Gentoo box! :D
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, this is a very nice howto.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Bob for your install method. I have already done 2 installs and it was flawless as long as you do eveything in the guide.

The only think I did not was I used standard safe CFAGS instead of the heavy optimized ones.

I beleieve that your method should be the standard method of installing Gentoo. Gentoo takes allot longer to install than other distros but you will have a very fast and optimized system to suite your exact needs.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Installed this today - thanks for the guide
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank's a lot, Bob P. This installation method is absolutely revolutionary, and as long as there is no "Gentoo-out-of-the-box" way to get the toolkit in this order on a new installation, I'd never use another installation method / stage1 installation again.

I performed my first "Stage1 on a Stage3 tarball" installation on my new IBM ThinkPad T42p, using Reiser4 as filesystem, and the full set of stacked-cflags + ldflags mentioned in this thread, and everthing worked out without a single problem. At first I was not sure if everything would compile with such an extreme level of code optimization, but I really can confirm, that this is the most stable system I ever set up until now:
Code:
# (choose optimization level)
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -O3"
#CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -O2"

# (use these only if -O2, they are included in -O3)
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fweb"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -frename-registers"

# (choose additional flags as appropriate)
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -march=pentium-m -pipe"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -mtune=pentium-m"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fforce-addr"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -momit-leaf-frame-pointer"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fomit-frame-pointer"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -ftracer"

# (optional CFLAGS suggested by kimchi_sg)
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -funroll-loops"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -falign-functions"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fmerge-all-constants"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -mfpmath=sse"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -maccumulate-outgoing-args"
CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fprefetch-loop-arrays"

# (CXXFLAGS: choose one)
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fvisibility-inlines-hidden -fvisibility=hidden"
#CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS} -fvisibility-inlines-hidden"
#CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"

LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1"

I use the additional O2 flags by standard, also I am on O3, since I remember to have read about ebuilds, stripping the O3 flag, so this only adds some redundancy as long as it stays on O3, but adds the extra benefit, if O3 should get replaced with O2 by an ebuild.

Concerning "-fvisibility=hidden": I have read, that KDE packages (up to KDE 3.3.2) can make troubles with this cxxflag, but as I have seen, this should not be the case for KDE 3.4, that's why I'm gonna try KDE 3.4 beta2 now with my set up flags.
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Bob P
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Master One wrote:
Thank's a lot, Bob P. This installation method is absolutely revolutionary, and as long as there is no "Gentoo-out-of-the-box" way to get the toolkit in this order on a new installation, I'd never use another installation method / stage1 installation again.

I performed my first "Stage1 on a Stage3 tarball" installation on my new IBM ThinkPad T42p, using Reiser4 as filesystem, and the full set of stacked-cflags + ldflags mentioned in this thread, and everthing worked out without a single problem. At first I was not sure if everything would compile with such an extreme level of code optimization, but I really can confirm, that this is the most stable system I ever set up until now:[code]# (choose optimization level)
...
I use the additional O2 flags by standard, also I am on O3, since I remember to have read about ebuilds, stripping the O3 flag, so this only adds some redundancy as long as it stays on O3, but adds the extra benefit, if O3 should get replaced with O2 by an ebuild.



thanks for your kind words. as i was reading your post i noticed that you had uncommented the -fweb and -frename-registers cflags, presumably because you knew about cflag stripping in ebuilds. i've looked into that and confirmed that there are quite a few ebuilds that strip cflags, and quite a few that replace cflags, so unmasking those two flags, is a good idea, even though it may seem redundant.

if anyone is wondering about how severe the cflag filtering problem turns out to be, here is a grep command that you can use to search the portage tree/ebuilds for flag stripping and/or replacement:

[code]
mkdir ~/tmp
find /usr/portage/ -name *ebuild | xargs -- grep 'O3' {} \; |sort |uniq >~/tmp/strippedflags
[/code]

if you look at the output, you'll see that the vast majority of ebuild developers take the easy way out and replace -O3 with -O2. very few of them actually strip out the individual cflags that are components of -O3 optimization, so its a good idea to uncomment -fweb and -frename-registers. if the ebuild doesn't replace -O3 with -O2, the flags will just be set redundantly, and if it does replace -O3 with -O2, you can restore some degree of optimization that would otherwise be lost.




Master One wrote:
Concerning "-fvisibility=hidden": I have read, that KDE packages (up to KDE 3.3.2) can make troubles with this cxxflag, but as I have seen, this should not be the case for KDE 3.4, that's why I'm gonna try KDE 3.4 beta2 now with my set up flags.


i can verify that many of the KDE 3.3.2 ebuilds will b0rk if the -fvisibility=hidden flag is set. k3b is another prime offender. its a pain in the ass to emerge those packages, as you always have to use package-specific CFLAG settings for them, and then set your CFLAGS back to your default settings when you're done.

i had not heard that the flag problem would be fixed in KDE 3.4. if that is indeed the case, then that is very good news, and KDE 3.4 is something that i will be looking forward to. if you try the beta package, please report back to us and let us know whether your tests were successful.

thanks! :wink:
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob P wrote:
i can verify that many of the KDE 3.3.2 ebuilds will b0rk if the -fvisibility=hidden flag is set. k3b is another prime offender. its a pain in the ass to emerge those packages, as you always have to use package-specific CFLAG settings for them, and then set your CFLAGS back to your default settings when you're done. i had not heard that the flag problem would be fixed in KDE 3.4. if that is indeed the case, then that is very good news, and KDE 3.4 is something that i will be looking forward to. if you try the beta package, please report back to us and let us know whether your tests were successful.

As expected, the emerge of kdebase-meta (3.4 beta2) worked flawlessly with "-fvisibility=hidden", so I could keep my whole set of flags :D

The only things to take care:

- latest "x86" version of aspell didn't like "-fvisibility=hidden", but latest "~x86" version (0.60.2) did
- fam didn't want to compile with "-fvisibility=hidden", had to "oneshot" it without that flag before starting the kdebase-meta emerge

This is very exciting, KDE3.4.0_rc1 has just been released today. The ebuilds for arts and kdelibs are already in portage, and I just upgraded these two packages. I do not expect any of the KDE 3.4 programs to cause any troubles with "-fvisibility=hidden".
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW I wanted to mention, that I use the following method in /etc/portage/package.keywords for nearly all "~x86" packages, which I emerge on my "x86" system:
Code:
# Toolkit
=sys-devel/gcc-3.4.3.20050110
=sys-devel/gcc-config-1.3.10-r1
=sys-libs/glibc-2.3.4.20050125
=sys-libs/libstdc++-v3-3.3.4

This way, I fetch the latest "~x86" version at the time I play arround with it, and then I don't have to care any more about those packages, until the next stable "x86" version becomes available (there should be no need, to perform the usually frequent updates in the "~x86" branch, as long as you don't experience any problems with the installed version). This makes it much easier, to concentrate on more important things. :wink:
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob P wrote:


i can verify that many of the KDE 3.3.2 ebuilds will b0rk if the -fvisibility=hidden flag is set. k3b is another prime offender. its a pain in the ass to emerge those packages, as you always have to use package-specific CFLAG settings for them, and then set your CFLAGS back to your default settings when you're done.

i had not heard that the flag problem would be fixed in KDE 3.4. if that is indeed the case, then that is very good news, and KDE 3.4 is something that i will be looking forward to. if you try the beta package, please report back to us and let us know whether your tests were successful.

thanks! :wink:


It is easy to use a file like /etc/portage/package.cxxflags to override cxxflags for specific offenders.


I also wanted to bring up a point that someone made on a previous page where it was stated that if both march and mtune were used in c/cxxflags that the last one asserted would be taken by the compiler. This information is INCORRECT and it is clearly stated in the gcc man page. One can optimize code like -march=pentium3 -mtune=athlon-xp to force sse and allow 3dnow if available, for example.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:02 am    Post subject: nooby question...toolchain philosophy Reply with quote

There are many questions that arises when puzzling through the labyrinth to build an optimized system. One question covers them but it might have been asked a million times (didn't spot this in this thread)

Doesn't hard optimization of the toolchain restrict the toolchain from building an optimized rest_of_the system or are we having a petbief for just making the toolchain faster ??

If building the toolchaing takes a nice heaps of hours what does it matter if a TRULY optimized system takes just that little longer to build if it really is done with less restricted toolchain??

Or is it that toolchain-optimization won't affect the output of the toolchain at all?

-------------
Maybe a silly question is allowed for a newbie.

PS. Following this quide to the detail
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:41 am    Post subject: Re: nooby question...toolchain philosophy Reply with quote

kailauro wrote:
There are many questions that arises when puzzling through the labyrinth to build an optimized system. One question covers them but it might have been asked a million times (didn't spot this in this thread)

Doesn't hard optimization of the toolchain restrict the toolchain from building an optimized rest_of_the system or are we having a petbief for just making the toolchain faster ??

If building the toolchaing takes a nice heaps of hours what does it matter if a TRULY optimized system takes just that little longer to build if it really is done with less restricted toolchain??

Or is it that toolchain-optimization won't affect the output of the toolchain at all?

-------------
Maybe a silly question is allowed for a newbie.

PS. Following this quide to the detail

:?: Your english is truly easy to understand.

That said, optimising the toolchain will make it faster. It will have no ill effect at all on the generated code.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:01 am    Post subject: ....toolchain philosophy Reply with quote

Vielen danke for a reply.
I thereby take it as a fact that the binaries will be made according to appropriate flags regardles of how the toolchain was optimized.

Compiling is going to be just that much more fun.

---the nyyb
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:32 am    Post subject: 3 to 1+ Reply with quote

quote " ... will equal or exceed that of any other Gentoo installation method..."

saved me an awful lot of time dealing with bootstrapping troubles...adding USE-flags one by one when dealing with dependencies, resulted in a unified , indeed nice and working result without one single unexpected error or misbehaviour whatsoever. Just what was wanted from linux at the moment.

Thanks for a great procedure that tributes the gentoo way

This I will back up now and maybe concider getting back to this business in 6 months from now...

...the happy pumpkin arctic neubie
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebigslide wrote:
It is easy to use a file like /etc/portage/package.cxxflags to override cxxflags for specific offenders.

Can someone explain, how entries in package.cxxflags should look like, please?

I could not find any info about this file in man portage, and I never heard of this possibility before.

I am still emerging kde-3.4.0_rc1, so far everything works fine, only kpovmodeler didn't like "-fvisibility=hidden".
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Master One wrote:
thebigslide wrote:
It is easy to use a file like /etc/portage/package.cxxflags to override cxxflags for specific offenders.

Can someone explain, how entries in package.cxxflags should look like, please?

I could not find any info about this file in man portage, and I never heard of this possibility before.

You need thebigslide's brilliant script for this to work: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-280748-start-0-postdays-0-postorder-asc-highlight-perpackage+cflags.html
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: ....toolchain philosophy Reply with quote

kailauro wrote:
Vielen danke for a reply.
I thereby take it as a fact that the binaries will be made according to appropriate flags regardles of how the toolchain was optimized.

Compiling is going to be just that much more fun.

---the nyyb
Correct. The output is the same; optimizing the toolchain simply makes it work MUCH faster, thus saving compile time.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about emerging ccache early on in the installation process?

Ccache is not enabled until you explicitly emerge it, on top of having "ccache" in FEATURES. :o
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