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gvs
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Cashing in my $0.02 Here... Reply with quote

buckminst wrote:
I tried Ubuntu as well, and this is how I feel about it.


I'm currently in the process of switching most of my machines to Ubuntu.

My experiences differs somewhat from yours, probably because of our perspective.

First off, Ubuntu stable will always lag behind Gentoo in package version, it is a fixed branch for 6 months. That means you get FireFox 0.9 today, and you still have it the day before the next release.
This is good and bad at the same time... I run an update about weekly to pull in security updates. Which takes me about 2 minutes (literally) every week, no breakage whatsoever.
On Gentoo, getting security updates often means upgrading to new versions, which takes compilation times of minutes to hours or days (KDE desktop was about 6-8 hours).
But the new versions often broke things (unexpected, so I would regularly spent an evening fixing after updates).

Ubuntu is a binary distro, installing it cost me 20 minutes. Add another 30 for creating a custom .deb for mplayer from source and get FireFox 1.0 from backports. I was up-and-running in about 1 hour, where a typical Gentoo install takes about 18-40 hours on most of my machines.

So even with fixing the mplayer thing and getting FireFox 1.0, Ubuntu takes about 1/20 the time to install and the same ratio to maintain.

This is not a flame against Gentoo, it is good at what it is designed for, a bleeding edge meta-distro.
Both are a trade-off. Gentoo cost me more time to maintain but was always up-to-date. Ubuntu is kind of static, and sometimes I'd like newer packages, but after initial install it requires little to no maintenance.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just took a look at the Ubuntu screen shots. They look exactly like my current xfce4/gnome desktop. Of course though I achieved mine by compiling and tweaking everything to my own tastes.

Personally, I have only had to complete redo Gentoo only once because I made of mistake of installing KDE and then not likeing it. So I tried emerge -e world and that broke so much that I just gave up. I also was tinkering with Gnome sources at the time and things got broken that I couldn't really fix to easily.

I am fairly impressed with Ubuntu as a distro. I might try it one day if my Gentoo system gets so outdated that I need to redo everything. That probably won't be for a long, long time.

I am still a newbie here at Gentoo, and Linux in general, but Ubuntu stops one thing that I find really important.

With Ubuntu you have precompiled packages and everything is already set up for you. I am gessing you can easily go into your package GUI manager and just click what you want installed.

With Gentoo you actually have to read that 40 page manual on how to install Gentoo. True, this is hard for the first time newbies like me. But after you have done it enough, it becomes easier. Essentially, Gentoo taught me how to really use linux. I don't think Ubuntu will facilitate that kind of learning.

Now that I have a lot of experience with Gentoo, and manually installing packages (not always emerge something) I feel more confident with linux. I still have many years to go before I catch up with the amount of knowledge I have for the windows OS. but at least gentoo got me started in the right path.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:06 am    Post subject: Switching from $DISTRO to $NEWDISTRO... Reply with quote

HecHacker1 wrote:

With Gentoo you actually have to read that 40 page manual on how to install Gentoo. True, this is hard for the first time newbies like me. But after you have done it enough, it becomes easier. Essentially, Gentoo taught me how to really use linux. I don't think Ubuntu will facilitate that kind of learning.


I can state from personal experience that this is most likely true. While any distribution can teach you how to make Linux do your every day activities, it takes distributions (or metadistributions, what have you) like Gentoo or Linux From Scratch to make you learn *Linux*, what Linux is, how Linux works, etc...

I remember when I went from Debian to Gentoo on my main server machine... I was so used to Debian autoconfiguring all of my daemons (mail, web, ftp, etc)... that when I got Gentoo finally installed, I had no idea how exactly to set up my mail daemon, or what I'd need to do to get mailman working with Apache 1, etc... I had to read lots of documentation and play around and break/unbreak things a lot to get things working as they were with Debian. While this was frustrating, it provided me with a lot of lessons and information and I felt I better understood my system afterwards.

Moral of the story: Not all hand-holding is good.

There are times, however, when I wish it WASN'T left up to the user so much... like Mailman for instance =)

I'm sure Ubuntu would be a great place to start users off with Linux... but I myself started with Slackware 3.0, way back when I first heard of Linux... and I did everything the hard way... and I think I became a more-knowledgable Linux user because of it.

This is one of the reasons why I oppose Microsoft's attempts at further dumbing down Windows, and why I (in a way) applaud Apple for switching to a Unix base. Sure, now Mac users have to deal with Terminal.app on occasion, but you know what? Command lines aren't all that bad =)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wtf is ubuntu??? stick to gentoo.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2lt.chronic wrote:
wtf is ubuntu??? stick to gentoo.


Whooo I give that the award for most useful post on this thread. :roll:
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sad part is that this person registered just to say that. Notice that this was the first post of this user. :roll:

Oh well....

:?: Here is a question to those familiar with ubuntu: What are the advantages of ubuntu compared to other package based distro's. Or maybe, to make this easier, what are the advantages of ubuntu over Debian? Any besides the "community" (forum) and ease of install (assuming that Debian is harder to install)?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:16 am    Post subject: Ubuntu with Apt-Aware Portage! Reply with quote

Using Ubuntu at home, have a CLI Gentoo box at work to do our "server stuff". By the time I get home from work, I don't want to be in the learning phase just to use some software quickly, and I like the look and feel of the chocolate brown distro.

But I sure do miss Portage! I haven't figured out how to compile with Debian packages, and would like to have that ability, just for a few apps.

<flight-of-fancy> I'd love to be able to quickly install a decent debian-based distro, and morph it over time to a sourced-based one as I have time to optimize my favorite apps. With an enhanced Portage (and Porthole) that would keep track of the debian apps as well. </flight-of-fancy>

Does this idea enthuse anyone?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: Ubuntu with Apt-Aware Portage! Reply with quote

jimcooncat wrote:
Using Ubuntu at home, have a CLI Gentoo box at work to do our "server stuff". By the time I get home from work, I don't want to be in the learning phase just to use some software quickly, and I like the look and feel of the chocolate brown distro.

But I sure do miss Portage! I haven't figured out how to compile with Debian packages, and would like to have that ability, just for a few apps.

<flight-of-fancy> I'd love to be able to quickly install a decent debian-based distro, and morph it over time to a sourced-based one as I have time to optimize my favorite apps. With an enhanced Portage (and Porthole) that would keep track of the debian apps as well. </flight-of-fancy>

Does this idea enthuse anyone?

apt-get build-dep whatever
apt-get source whatever
start tinkering
dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -b
dpkg -i whatever.deb

or take a look at
http://julien.danjou.info/article-apt-build.html
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I decided to try out Ubuntu a while back. I put it on my Laptop which is relatively slow and lacking in resources. So I thought it would be a good choice. I have since put Gentoo back on my Laptop but it wasn't really because I had any problems with Ubuntu. It's because the Laptop I have is just a "throw away" machine. I experiment with it all the time. I'll put OpenBSD it on, FreeBSD, etc... but anyway.

Ubuntu seems like a great distro for the times when you just need something right now. I think the only thing that really keeps me from putting Ubuntu on my second main machine is that Synaptic doesn't have as extensive of a software collection as portage does. There were at least a few things I couldn't find in Synaptic. The only one I remember right off the top of my head is gaim-encryption. Some people might be content to just go get the source code and compile by hand the one or two things they need.

But if I'm going to run a binary distro, I don't want to have to compile *anything* - otherwise it defeats the purpose in my opinion. Libs and compilers take up a ton of disk space. So if I have to compile even 1 thing, I might as well just use Gentoo and have the bennefits of compiling everything with the USE flags I want.

Also - the mirrorupdate tool for Gentoo is amazing. A long time ago when I ran Mandrake, I hated the fact that I had to manually find mirrors and update them by hand. Ubuntu needs a mirrorupdate-like tool. I don't want to have to search the web for package sources.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

after praising Gentoo in this thread eariler, a few day's ago my Gentoo root partition died (Reiser4, my fault I know).

Now I have an excuse to use Ubuntu. I am going to give it a chance and see what it is all about. I am downloading the live development iso to try and get the latest stuff.

I'll report back here from an Ubuntu installation. Heresy!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to mention that I have tried to use todays install iso (note that you cannot use the live iso to do an install), and it froze on me. Guess that means I should try a more "official" iso of Hoary (itself being still 'beta') which was added a few days ago. Also, this was under qemu so it might just be due to qemu and might not have been the fault of the iso.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, i just tried posting from my new Ubuntu installation.... and after typing about 400 words it crashed! :evil:

btw, i installed using the devel. install cd from today (2/7/05) i didn't freeze on me.

My first impressions:

1. I really hate the brown color theme. It reminds me of something else. :?

2. The installation went very fast. About 20 minutes.

3. don't bother with the "expert" installation. It just causes problems and doesn't add any functionality at all.

4. As far as I can tell, all of my devices were detected!. That is a first for me and linux. And, installating my printer only took two clicks in the gui.

5. Most of the default configs were fine. My mouse wheel even worked (mx510). Although it was missing some buttons. my monitor detected fine and the right resolution was set up.

6. Ubuntu was definately less reponsive than my previous highly optimized Gentoo. Things had a perceptible "lag" on them. Although it had a lag, i do have to admit that the programs did start faster (and X). But I rather have a lagless system instead of a fast booting one.

7. I couldn't get nvidia-glx to work with the Synaptic's program. It complained about not being able to find the nvidia kernel module. Unfortunately, I had nvidia-kernel-common installed, so something was wrong with Ubuntu.

8. It seams like all the packages were compiled using i386 and nothing else. I tried going to the 686 k7 kernel for my processor, but it didn't add any speed.

9. I like the default Gnome config that they set up. Actually, it isn't any different from the normal development Gnome (2.99) plus the ubuntu specific things.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HecHacker1 wrote:

6. Ubuntu was definately less reponsive than my previous highly optimized Gentoo. Things had a perceptible "lag" on them. Although it had a lag, i do have to admit that the programs did start faster (and X). But I rather have a lagless system instead of a fast booting one.


On my system:
2 sata 160 Gb HDs
Pentium4 3.2

Gentoo:
/ reiser4 linux raid0, at begining of both HDs
CFLAGS="-O3 -march=pentium4 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -fPIC"

Ubuntu:
/ ext3, 30 GB single partition *at the end* of 1 disk.

I was surprised to see that ubuntu was not slower than gentoo. It even seemed to me that ubuntu was faster, but this maybe because of Gnome being lighter than KDE ? (I'm using KDE in Gentoo, don't have gnome).

Openoffice.org starts faster in ubuntu than my P4 optimized OO in gentoo (geez... how many hours have I lost compiling that ?).

To my experience, ubuntu is in no way slower... and it is running on an ext3 partition at the end of 1 disk, whereas gentoo is on a reiser4 raid0 at the begining of both disks.... :!:

The lag you experienced could be caused by the absence of the nvidia drivers. Xorg was much more responsive after I installed the ATI drivers (Readeon 9800XT).

HecHacker1 wrote:

7. I couldn't get nvidia-glx to work with the Synaptic's program. It complained about not being able to find the nvidia kernel module. Unfortunately, I had nvidia-kernel-common installed, so something was wrong with Ubuntu.


You need to install "linux-restricted-modules", which contains the kernel module.

HecHacker1 wrote:

8. It seams like all the packages were compiled using i386 and nothing else.


The i386 in the package name does not mean that its compiled for the i386 processor. A P4 is a i386 class processor.

Ubuntu packages are compiled for i686,k7 with the compiler directed to work best on P4 -> this means that it will run on all i686, but will work best on P4. Also, you gain nothing by adding flags to compile for 3dnow, sse2, etc... as most sources don't use it; and the sources who need it call the functions directly through asm at runtime (ex mplayer, etc...). so no need to compile for that. I didn't realy believe this, but the results are here on my system to prove it.

Search the ubuntu forums if you want more info on this.

My question now: Why waist so much time to compile everything, and then still don't have an OS that is plug-and-play ready which leads to more lost hours trying to make hardware work ? I'm seriously considering moving everything to ubuntu.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My question now: Why waist so much time to compile everything, and then still don't have an OS that is plug-and-play ready which leads to more lost hours trying to make hardware work ? I'm seriously considering moving everything to ubuntu.


I'm quite impressed with Ubuntu myself. Just one question ... is there anything like "mirrorupdate" for Ubuntu? I can't stand looking around for software repositories every time the repositories I had been using are no longer available for one reason or another. I delt with that with Mandrake for months and it was infuriating.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blixel wrote:

I'm quite impressed with Ubuntu myself. Just one question ... is there anything like "mirrorupdate" for Ubuntu? I can't stand looking around for software repositories every time the repositories I had been using are no longer available for one reason or another. I delt with that with Mandrake for months and it was infuriating.


I don't know as I have only been trying ubunto for a few days. Maybe you could post on the ubuntu forums about this.

But you can have a look here for more repositories: http://apt-get.org

Also, I've just seen that a new ubuntu group called MOTU (Masters of the universe) was formed to move packages to the ubuntu universe repositories, so that packages are as uptodate as possible.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jowilly wrote:
blixel wrote:

I'm quite impressed with Ubuntu myself. Just one question ... is there anything like "mirrorupdate" for Ubuntu? I can't stand looking around for software repositories every time the repositories I had been using are no longer available for one reason or another. I delt with that with Mandrake for months and it was infuriating.


I don't know as I have only been trying ubunto for a few days. Maybe you could post on the ubuntu forums about this.

But you can have a look here for more repositories: http://apt-get.org

Also, I've just seen that a new ubuntu group called MOTU (Masters of the universe) was formed to move packages to the ubuntu universe repositories, so that packages are as uptodate as possible.


Does anyone know where I can get the ISO for the beta pre-release of the upcoming version? I checked on ubuntu.com but all I could find was warty-release
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blixel wrote:

Does anyone know where I can get the ISO for the beta pre-release of the upcoming version? I checked on ubuntu.com but all I could find was warty-release


Will you believe me if I tell you that these guys are releasing a new iso every day (install cd and also live-cd) for their development branch ?

And this for x86, ia64 and PPC ? :)

-> ftp://ftp.ubuntu.com/cdimage
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But its probably best to get the last official beta release (Array-4), instead of the daily ones.

Here ftp://ftp.ubuntu.com/cdimage/releases/5.04
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jowilly wrote:
But its probably best to get the last official beta release (Array-4), instead of the daily ones.

Here ftp://ftp.ubuntu.com/cdimage/releases/5.04


Yeah - that's what I was thinking. I'm getting it from here right now - I assume this is the latest "stable" beta.

http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hoary/current/
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did have a very long and elaborate post within Ubuntu, but it froze on me! THis is like the 4th time. Now I am typing this in my windows partition. My computer is stable, so something is wrong with Ubuntu.

Anyways, I am going to try and recreate my post:

I did finally get The nvidia glx and kernel to work after having to manually set up everything. Ubuntu is great for binary installs, but when you have to do it manually, it takes forever.

Most of the time was spent compiling the newer kernel (40 minuets) just to get nvidia support. Because Ubuntu is so generally configured, everything in the kernel was selected, and I left it that way because that is what the instructions said. Until during the middle of compiling the kernel the scsi segfaulted on me, so I had to manually go in and fix the kernel.

Anways, after 1 hour and 30 minuets i finally got Nvidia support working.

There is much less lag than before, but it still can't be compared to my Gentoo Gnome installation that I used to have. In my gentoo installation everything was instant, without any perceptible lag. Ubunutu is pretty fast, but the menus and other dialogs are a little slow to open.

I still give Ubuntu credit for loading up very fast, and for programs launching very fast. However, I think this mainly has to do with the fact that Ubuntu is compiled probably with default i386, and that results in unoptimized, smaller code. In my Gentoo partition, i would normally compile with O3 and other flags that tend to make code bigger, hence slower loading. But after they load, the optimizations make the programs much faster.

Overall, I am not very happy with Ubuntu yet because it is hard locking on me for no apparent reason, no log files to explain. After 10 minuets of X usage the computer just dies (it's not heat related either, windows xp is just fine doing Folding@Home while I game with DoomIII for example).

I have went through the xorg.conf and everything should be okay. At least it was with my Gentoo partition.

Perhaps my lock ups have been because I used the development version of Ubuntu. Even then however, I have always used development versions of all my software on Gentoo without any problems.

I am not done with Ubuntu yet however, I am going to give it a chance for a week. If I can fix the hard lock ups, maybe I'll do some programming on it. If I can't, then I'll probably try out some other distro's while I'm at it. I do admit that Gentoo takes forever to get up and running (takes me 3 days to get a full Gnome development 2.9 and xfce4).
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HecHacker1 wrote:
I did finally get The nvidia glx and kernel to work after having to manually set up everything. Ubuntu is great for binary installs, but when you have to do it manually, it takes forever.

Most of the time was spent compiling the newer kernel (40 minuets) just to get nvidia support.

Looking at the nVidia installation instructions, I don't see any references to compiling the kernel. Why exactly did you feel that you had to do this? The instructions consist of exactly two commands, "sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx" and "sudo nvidia-glx-config enable".

HecHacker1 wrote:
Because Ubuntu is so generally configured, everything in the kernel was selected, and I left it that way because that is what the instructions said. Until during the middle of compiling the kernel the scsi segfaulted on me, so I had to manually go in and fix the kernel.

Anways, after 1 hour and 30 minuets i finally got Nvidia support working.

I wish I could help, but I've never had to recompile my kernel with Ubuntu.

HecHacker1 wrote:
Overall, I am not very happy with Ubuntu yet because it is hard locking on me for no apparent reason, no log files to explain.

Which log files were you looking for? Do other distributions create logs on hard locks that I don't know about?

HecHacker1 wrote:
After 10 minuets of X usage the computer just dies (it's not heat related either, windows xp is just fine doing Folding@Home while I game with DoomIII for example).

This happens to me, too, but not so much any more. It was always due to known bugs in the Radeon drivers before. Sorry.

HecHacker1 wrote:
Perhaps my lock ups have been because I used the development version of Ubuntu. Even then however, I have always used development versions of all my software on Gentoo without any problems.

Exactly how development are we talking? Development as in the daily Ubuntu ISOs, or simply using Hoary repositories?

HecHacker1 wrote:
I am not done with Ubuntu yet however, I am going to give it a chance for a week. If I can fix the hard lock ups, maybe I'll do some programming on it. If I can't, then I'll probably try out some other distro's while I'm at it.

Which other distributions do you plan on trying? :)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, this question of speed is very interesting.
I too find gentoo faster then ubuntu, the fact is the only reason i am trying to use gentoo. But there seems to be a lot of people here saying that Ubuntu is fast and snappy. Ubuntu is all that but compared with other distros. Compared with gentoo shouldn't be that way, at least in theory. What are you opinions/experiences, users of both?

@HecHacker1
Hello, it seems that a lot of confusion goes to your ubuntu trial. I don't understand what you do. Nvidia as nothing to do neither with kernel nor linux. You don't make it work by compiling kernel, since is not part of kernel code, neither you can get the code, since it's closed and property of nvidia. Kernel driver (inside it) for linux are an open project (part of xfree?) but is slower then nvidia and don't have 3d accel. To use it you can compile as module or inside your kernel, but it's called "nv" not "nvidia", so you must change your XFConfig according.

If the usual ubuntu how-to-nvidia fails you could try the binary directly from nvidia. download and run sh /NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-6629-pkg1.run from a console, then, modprobe nvidia. Thats all. I prefer this way even if deb versions works, since they give me fast glxgears results.

About your X frozen, that seems to be a well known problem. A conflict between agpgart from the driver and agpgart from kernel. You could disable kernel agpgart option and use the nvidia version, it seems that give better performance, but i can never make it work... or you can add to your xfconfig:
Option "NvAGP" "0" #| disabled
#Option "NvAGP" "1" #| use NVIDIA's internal AGP support, if possible
#Option "NvAGP" "2" #| use AGPGART, if possible
#Option "NvAGP" "3" #| use any agp support (Default)

and comment out one line at time to see wich solve your problem. "0" should work just fine with agpgart, "3" is the default it's the same that you have none selected. Note too that with 6629 version you should comment out:
# Load "dri"
and
# Section "DRI"
# Mode 0666
# EndSection
they are not compatible with driver (sorry if you know all that, just in case...).

Another thing that some times seems to conflict with nvidia is drm inside kernel, not as module or disabled... at least i read a lot about it. But i never had problems with that. Dont' forget that you should search ubuntu foruns. They are full of help and are a nice community.

About compile kernel. You shouldn't accept the default for any distro! Whats the point in compile it then? If you are happy with your gentoo kernel, just copy the .config file from the equivalent version (or close) and you get more or less the same. Or start with an empty config and just add what you need. Is the same as gentoo (or any other linux) You can even follow Gentoo Handbook sugestions if that make you feel more confortable ;)
(Of corse then compile times should be close to the ones you get with gento)

good luck. Keep us informed about you experience with speed and system response.

Oh! and there are kernel compiled for any flavor, from i386, i586, i686, k7, amd, w/ and w/out SMP, 2.6 and 2.4, etc. They are good start point before you solve the nvidia question. I don't think the other binarys are compiled for i386. How can they manage to get one of the fast distro around with that flags? then "compete" with gentoo, mepis and yoper for speed, not redhat! I'm curious... i think i'll will post a question on that on ubuntu foruns.
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HecHacker1
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Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 213
Location: UCSD

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is the HOWTO i used for getting my nvidia driver working.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=12823

I realize that nvidia is closed source, but in order to get it working you have to integrate the nvidia kernel files with your kernel and then compile it. You also have to disable certain features that nvidia doesn't like (like RivaFB).

I also have a pretty good understanding of Xorg. I was a Gentoo user after all. I checked all the cofiguration. Everything should be fine. But it still locks up.

I used the daily install iso to get Ubuntu working. The known bugs shouldn't affect me.

Quote:
About compile kernel. You shouldn't accept the default for any distro! Whats the point in compile it then? If you are happy with your gentoo kernel, just copy the .config file from the equivalent version (or close) and you get more or less the same. Or start with an empty config and just add what you need. Is the same as gentoo (or any other linux) You can even follow Gentoo Handbook sugestions if that make you feel more confortable Wink
(Of corse then compile times should be close to the ones you get with gento)


Well, for a gentoo installation normally you would tweak everything to your taste. But for Ubuntu, i believe they are purposely trying to prevent you from having to do manual configuration.

I tried using the Athlon port of the kernel, but it really didn't make anything any faster.

My own kernel that I had to compile to get nvida drivers to work was probably the fastest.

ttyl
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RuiP
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Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 643

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
HecHacker1 wrote:
here is the HOWTO i used for getting my nvidia driver working.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=12823

It don't says you NEED, it's suggested. Check the first comment, from a person who prefer not to.
Quote:
I realize that nvidia is closed source, but in order to get it working you have to integrate the nvidia kernel files with your kernel and then compile it. You also have to disable certain features that nvidia doesn't like (like RivaFB).

Modules can be added to a kernel without kernel compilation. Under any distro (it's a kernel feature). It's the point of that 1st. comment.
See:
http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/compile-kernel-module
About RivaFB, they just mean that you should remove any rivafb line from /etc/modules (equivalent of gentoo's /etc/modules.autoload.d/kernel-2.6)

Quote:
I also have a pretty good understanding of Xorg. I was a Gentoo user after all. I checked all the cofiguration. Everything should be fine. But it still locks up.

I presumed you have. I said "just in case". This is not the right thread or even the right forum for this, i just give that sugestion, because i had the same problem when i buy my new nvidia card 2 month ago. Just adding:
Code:
Option "NvAGP" "0"

solved the problem.

Quote:
I used the daily install iso to get Ubuntu working. The known bugs shouldn't affect me.

If it's not a agpgart conflict, then this is probabily the cause. Installer is under heavy development.
Don't look at apt lightly (gentoo users usually do), *in is own way* it's as powerfull as emerge. Just use the most conventional version available, i'll suggest official warty CD, then if you want the latest things add hoary main and universe (and restricted and multiverse if you wish) to sources.list, and do apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade. You'll get the same versions of the dailly iso but upon a stable installation.

Quote:
... But for Ubuntu, i believe they are purposely trying to prevent you from having to do manual configuration.

I don't know where you've got that idea. I'll recomend to anyone to burn (on fire) any distro that will in fact recommend that (it's very anti-Linux-spirit). Same for default config. They add the maximum stuff for default to make it run on every machine available... but whats the point in compile modules for hardware that you don't have or put inside your kernel support for thing that you don't have (i cut all tape, pcmia, isa, lvw, raid support and check preempt and smp+ht support for my own box). Any way where some links to ubuntu wiki on How To Compile Kernel (I don't find any warning or anything trying to prevent manual configuration):

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KernelHowto
http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KernelByHandHowto
http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KernelCompileHowto

Quote:
I tried using the Athlon port of the kernel, but it really didn't make anything any faster.
My own kernel that I had to compile to get nvida drivers to work was probably the fastest.


Well that sould prove to you that, no matter what recomendations are, compile, in your case, is a good point.
I must confess that under fast computers cpu>2.6GHz i can't notest any speed improvment from a generic kernel to a skinny personal kernel, just less space occupied in disk.
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kraylus
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Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 648
Location: ft.worth.tx

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Ubuntu vs Gentoo Reply with quote

RuiP wrote:
One nice application for newbies is synaptic. It's a GUI to apt that allows to browse to available apps (and they description, sizes, versions, ...) and install the desired ones with 2 clics. Very stable, simple and good to find new things. (Gentoo had one of the kind, porthole, but seems not to much loved by users...)


nahhh, gentoo users love it. they really do! just that the problem is, it's not really *cool* for them to love it. so they pretend to despise it so that they look cool in front of the other gentoo users. they says things like, "i'm old school man!" or "i'd rather type commands at a command line than let some fancy, easy-to-use *graphical* interface do it for me" and even "i'd rather push my ford than drive your chevy!"

well... maybe not so much the last one. but gentoo users are elite, and doing things with a gui is considered to be NOT elite. i hope that clears things up ;) i wish gportage were still being developed. quite possibly one of the best front-ends for portage ever.

don't even get them started with a graphical installer....

ryan
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I used gentoo BEFORE it was cool.
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