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edudlive
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
asimon wrote:
And regarding compiling kernels yourself, well in 2005 95% of your typical users don't compile their own kernels, it's not needed. I can't understand why someone who wants to compile his own kernel can complain about a missing gcc.

How do you have a workable computer without configuring and installing your own kernel? I have never used a linux distro that worked perfectly, and supported everything I wanted it to without recompiling the kernel myself. It has been a while since I have tried one of the RedHat/Suse/Man* distros - are they actually that good now?


Ubuntu's did, everything worked fine. I needed to recompile to disable DRM to use the ATI binaries instead of the Xorg ATI driver for my Radeon 9000
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piercey
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

heh,

Code:

# apt-get install build-essential


No one else find it funny that you have to manually install a so called essential package? ::)
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regeya
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

piercey wrote:
heh,

Code:

# apt-get install build-essential


No one else find it funny that you have to manually install a so called essential package? ::)


Well, when you consider that Ubuntu is aimed at users, and that users aren't usually developers (how many OS X users elect to install XCode, I wonder?) it sort of makes sense, but yeah, it's kinda funny to see that on a Linux distribution.

If you want to see why it's called build-essential, though, take a look at http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/build-essential
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SNo0py
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edudlive wrote:

Read sometime, I heard it helps.
hehehe....

Yeah, read the manual and be open for other stuff. Hey, all Linux users say "I use Linux, because it's OPEN source"... but most of them don't have an open mind and accept others! Ubuntu, Gentoo, Suse, Redhat, ... - who cares? Everything is Linux and no Ubuntu-User has to be converted (back) to Gentoo, just because you like Gentoo more.

The same applies for beer - hey, I don't like this Budweiser, and I won't like it after some discussions with someone who likes it. The same applies for Linux. Yeah, I like Linux and I like beer, so why can this not be accepted by some users?

And: the same applies for the religous wars between vi&emacs, Windows&Linux, php&perl, .... - every language/tool/THING is fine for some purpose, but why the hell do people always try to enforce their opinion?
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edudlive
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SNo0py wrote:
edudlive wrote:

Read sometime, I heard it helps.
hehehe....

Yeah, read the manual and be open for other stuff. Hey, all Linux users say "I use Linux, because it's OPEN source"... but most of them don't have an open mind and accept others! Ubuntu, Gentoo, Suse, Redhat, ... - who cares? Everything is Linux and no Ubuntu-User has to be converted (back) to Gentoo, just because you like Gentoo more.

The same applies for beer - hey, I don't like this Budweiser, and I won't like it after some discussions with someone who likes it. The same applies for Linux. Yeah, I like Linux and I like beer, so why can this not be accepted by some users?

And: the same applies for the religous wars between vi&emacs, Windows&Linux, php&perl, .... - every language/tool/THING is fine for some purpose, but why the hell do people always try to enforce their opinion?


I don't use Linux because its open source, I don't know much C so it does me little good. I use it because its free and a good alternative to Microsoft Windows.

I do have an open mind, why else would I even bother trying Ubuntu...since I was perfectly content with Gentoo on my laptop? Gentoo encompasses more than Linux, it is also a BSD (kinda, more like a hacked FreeBSD). Each distro has its own specific purpose in mind, so I'm pretty sure everyone but you cares ;)
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SNo0py
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry edudlive, but this post was definitely not against you! Only the "hehe" was for you ;)

The post is even not against anyone, it's just my opinion....
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edudlive
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SNo0py wrote:
Sorry edudlive, but this post was definitely not against you! Only the "hehe" was for you ;)

The post is even not against anyone, it's just my opinion....


I know, I'm just the only one that seems to still be arguing. Gotta keep the flames alive somehow! :lol:
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cokey
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edudlive wrote:
SNo0py wrote:
edudlive wrote:

Read sometime, I heard it helps.
hehehe....

Yeah, read the manual and be open for other stuff. Hey, all Linux users say "I use Linux, because it's OPEN source"... but most of them don't have an open mind and accept others! Ubuntu, Gentoo, Suse, Redhat, ... - who cares? Everything is Linux and no Ubuntu-User has to be converted (back) to Gentoo, just because you like Gentoo more.

The same applies for beer - hey, I don't like this Budweiser, and I won't like it after some discussions with someone who likes it. The same applies for Linux. Yeah, I like Linux and I like beer, so why can this not be accepted by some users?

And: the same applies for the religous wars between vi&emacs, Windows&Linux, php&perl, .... - every language/tool/THING is fine for some purpose, but why the hell do people always try to enforce their opinion?


I don't use Linux because its open source, I don't know much C so it does me little good. I use it because its free and a good alternative to Microsoft Windows.

I do have an open mind, why else would I even bother trying Ubuntu...since I was perfectly content with Gentoo on my laptop? Gentoo encompasses more than Linux, it is also a BSD (kinda, more like a hacked FreeBSD). Each distro has its own specific purpose in mind, so I'm pretty sure everyone but you cares ;)
yeah but budweiser is fizzy piss anyway :P
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dual boot between Ubuntu and Gentoo. Gentoo is really for a control freak who wants (or in some applications needs) to tweak their distro easily. Ubuntu is basically Fedora the way Fedora should have been and proves (along with Xandros) that RPM needs to die.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edudlive wrote:
richk449 wrote:
asimon wrote:
And regarding compiling kernels yourself, well in 2005 95% of your typical users don't compile their own kernels, it's not needed. I can't understand why someone who wants to compile his own kernel can complain about a missing gcc.

How do you have a workable computer without configuring and installing your own kernel? I have never used a linux distro that worked perfectly, and supported everything I wanted it to without recompiling the kernel myself. It has been a while since I have tried one of the RedHat/Suse/Man* distros - are they actually that good now?


Ubuntu's did, everything worked fine. I needed to recompile to disable DRM to use the ATI binaries instead of the Xorg ATI driver for my Radeon 9000

I guess i Wouldn't call that "working fine". Typically, most things work, but there is always some little annoying gotcha, like video card drivers, that make you go through the hassle of re-compiling.
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edudlive
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
edudlive wrote:
richk449 wrote:
asimon wrote:
And regarding compiling kernels yourself, well in 2005 95% of your typical users don't compile their own kernels, it's not needed. I can't understand why someone who wants to compile his own kernel can complain about a missing gcc.

How do you have a workable computer without configuring and installing your own kernel? I have never used a linux distro that worked perfectly, and supported everything I wanted it to without recompiling the kernel myself. It has been a while since I have tried one of the RedHat/Suse/Man* distros - are they actually that good now?


Ubuntu's did, everything worked fine. I needed to recompile to disable DRM to use the ATI binaries instead of the Xorg ATI driver for my Radeon 9000

I guess i Wouldn't call that "working fine". Typically, most things work, but there is always some little annoying gotcha, like video card drivers, that make you go through the hassle of re-compiling.


The 9000 is supported by the DRM/DRI though, so it worked (including 3D). I just like to mess with the ATI drivers to compare to DRI
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edudlive
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
edudlive wrote:
SNo0py wrote:
edudlive wrote:

Read sometime, I heard it helps.
hehehe....

Yeah, read the manual and be open for other stuff. Hey, all Linux users say "I use Linux, because it's OPEN source"... but most of them don't have an open mind and accept others! Ubuntu, Gentoo, Suse, Redhat, ... - who cares? Everything is Linux and no Ubuntu-User has to be converted (back) to Gentoo, just because you like Gentoo more.

The same applies for beer - hey, I don't like this Budweiser, and I won't like it after some discussions with someone who likes it. The same applies for Linux. Yeah, I like Linux and I like beer, so why can this not be accepted by some users?

And: the same applies for the religous wars between vi&emacs, Windows&Linux, php&perl, .... - every language/tool/THING is fine for some purpose, but why the hell do people always try to enforce their opinion?


I don't use Linux because its open source, I don't know much C so it does me little good. I use it because its free and a good alternative to Microsoft Windows.

I do have an open mind, why else would I even bother trying Ubuntu...since I was perfectly content with Gentoo on my laptop? Gentoo encompasses more than Linux, it is also a BSD (kinda, more like a hacked FreeBSD). Each distro has its own specific purpose in mind, so I'm pretty sure everyone but you cares ;)
yeah but budweiser is fizzy piss anyway :P


Guinness and Fat Tire here bud, all the way :cool:
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SlicerDicer
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kubuntu rocks IMO I dont like gnome myself :) but yeah its replaced my main rig and perhaps may find a home on other rigs I dont quite know yet.
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Alighieri
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tamsco wrote:
I dual boot between Ubuntu and Gentoo. Gentoo is really for a control freak who wants (or in some applications needs) to tweak their distro easily. Ubuntu is basically Fedora the way Fedora should have been and proves (along with Xandros) that RPM needs to die.


Fedora's brokenness has nothing to do with RPM. This is a common myth. Having used Fedora/RH and Debian a lot (several years each), I can't say that Debian's package management is significantly better than yum + rpm. I do like Ubuntu though. Nice attention to detail. Fedora is pretty good too. I can't seem to give up Gentoo however. Guess I'm a control freak.
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zx2c4
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:57 pm    Post subject: (K)Ubuntu versus Gentoo Reply with quote

How does Ubuntu compare to Gentoo as far as proformance, usability, package availability, compatibility, customization, ease of use, etc...

mod edit: Merged here. --Earthwings
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papal_authority
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not as customizable, less packages available, but easier to install. With apt, it's just as easy to keep updated. I run both.
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zx2c4
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what about speed?
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frenkel
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zx2c4 wrote:
what about speed?

Speed is about the same. But I don't like apt not having something like depclean does with Gentoo.
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pinr
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have Gentoo on my main Desktop (AMD64) and Laptop and I Kubuntu on an older Pentium III. Both distros are good, but overall I prefer Gentoo. Gentoo is more highly configurable and customisable and new packages seem to be available much more quickly. Both seem to have large package collections, but personally I find Gentoo better in this respect although I believe you can add other repositories in Kubuntu. Both systems are easy to upgrade. The main advantage of Kubuntu is the very quick and easy installation plus quicker upgrades.
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zx2c4
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If ubuntu is just as fast, why am I using a source distro? Couldn't I get the customiziation out of arch linux and the update speed up ubuntu all in one?
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Lechium
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are we comparing the hardest distro with the easiest distro?
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codergeek42
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zx2c4 wrote:
If ubuntu is just as fast, why am I using a source distro? Couldn't I get the customiziation out of arch linux and the update speed up ubuntu all in one?
Sure if you wanted...it's probably more straightforward to achieve those customizations with Gentoo, however.
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zx2c4
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah true true. So gentoo is the power user's os and ubutnu is the normal users's os?

I'm an avid gentoo user but I can't help but notice the growing popularity of ubuntu.
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monkey89
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really know how one distribution could be less of a power user's distribution than another. They're all made up of the same configuration files and programs, and anyone who wants to and knows how can go into their system further and tweak all they want.

I currently use Ubuntu, and have used Gentoo for a while as well. As said above, speeds are comparable. The reasons why Gentoo is always tempting for me to switch back to are USE flags, probably a slightly more knowledgable community when it comes to more advanced problems, etc. But after having used Gentoo for so long, I really can't say I mind the tradeoff of slightly more bloat from the lack of USE flags for the sheer timesaving binary packages offer. I still keep control over the system by using checkinstall when I need to install programs by source, and I generally know enough about Linux to be able to (eventually) figure out why something isn't working when it doesn't. Ubuntu can be just as bleeding edge as Gentoo when using the development repository (and it breaks just as often as ~x86 :)).

To each his own. It's very possible that one of these days, when I have a week or so of time, I'll switch back to Gentoo. But with Ubuntu, things just work a little bit more, and little touches appeal to me greatly. I suggest trying both out and seeing where you feel more comfortable.

-Monkey
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plbe
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zx2c4 wrote:
Yeah true true. So gentoo is the power user's os and ubutnu is the normal users's os?

I'm an avid gentoo user but I can't help but notice the growing popularity of ubuntu.


Ubuntu has very nice integration and everything seems to just work out of the box from my experience
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