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RageOfOrder
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LD wrote:

Burn the Heratict!


Heretic* :)

Yea.... I've suggest Ubuntu to several people I know that are sick of Windows. The funny thing is, most people do give it a shot, and the computer illeterates keep it, while those who are a little more competent sometimes don't even get passed loading the live CD before they decide it's not for them..
In which case I bring up Gentoo, but nobody ever wants to spend a few days trying to install something when Windows already "works".....

I had the same opinion about Ubuntu.. I just can't find any reason to use it over Gentoo. Nevermind the forums... Awkward layout, "ranks" based on coffee.... and horrid support.

If I google support for "Linux this or that" I almost always get either the Gentoo Wiki, or the Gentoo forums. Gotta love this community
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dresb
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo doesn't teach you anything, people who want to learn are more likely to choose a distribution with easy-to-find and down-to-earth documentation and transparent tools for the system administration, because it lowers the entry barrier for that kind of people, but to learn anything but configure basic stuff you will have to read the same manuals and do the same things than anyone else in any other distro has.

Having said that, "uninstall & reinstall" style of voodoo problem solving is was what drove me from windows, and it's going to keep me from ubuntu as long as I see it posted as a solution as often as I see it today.
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runningwithscissors
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't used Ubuntu as I have no reason to. However, if I did check out another Linux distro, it wouldn't be Ubuntu. Here are some reasons as to why:
- GNOME
- a default colour scheme that resembles a hot, parched desert.
- cheesy, repulsive marketing
- rubbish name
i.e. pretty much the stuff that makes 'Ubuntu'. Strip that away and its Debian. And I wouldn't mind using that.

Great for people who like it, though.
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Daemonax
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zencoder wrote:
Gentoo doesn't teach you anything, people who want to learn are more likely to choose a distribution with easy-to-find and down-to-earth documentation and transparent tools for the system administration, because it lowers the entry barrier for that kind of people, but to learn anything but configure basic stuff you will have to read the same manuals and do the same things than anyone else in any other distro has.

Having said that, "uninstall & reinstall" style of voodoo problem solving is was what drove me from windows, and it's going to keep me from ubuntu as long as I see it posted as a solution as often as I see it today.


Gentoo teaches you pleanty about configuring apps, as most Gentoo apps need it, where as with most other popular distro's things are configured well enough that there is normally no point to look deep in to config files.
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dresb
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luineancaion wrote:
Gentoo teaches you pleanty about configuring apps, as most Gentoo apps need it, where as with most other popular distro's things are configured well enough that there is normally no point to look deep in to config files.

As I said:
Quote:
but to learn anything but configure basic stuff you will have to read the same manuals and do the same things than anyone else in any other distro has.


Just to be clear:
Gentoo (and others) just make you do basic stuff that other distros do automagically, once you have to do something more advanced, you end up reading the same manuals as everyone else, which often (or I should say always) include the basic information anyway.
IMO it doesn't "teach", it serves as a stepping stone at best.
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RageOfOrder
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zencoder wrote:

IMO it doesn't "teach", it serves as a stepping stone at best.


A first time linux user installs Ubuntu. He knows nothing of any basic commands, and doesn't know what a console is, much less how to use it. Nevermind trying to figure out how the filesystem is organized, compared to Windows. Said user now has a working system and may not want to do any extra work should the need arise, and may opt to leave linux instead of reading up on this "console" thing.

A first time linux user installs Gentoo. He is forced to learn simple console usage, and gain at least some knowledge of how his system works.

In my book, that makes Gentoo a teacher, to the right audience of course.
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RaZoR1394
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once had Gentoo on all machines but I got sick of all the maintaining so I switched to Ubuntu, something that I would never thought of before. It works pretty ok on my X86 machines. The system is kind of "automatic" in some ways as it sets up many options by itself. However, everything has a darkside unfortunately; the amd64 version is pretty unsupported in terms of apps and libraries. It feels that Ubuntu's amd64 version is where Gentoo was 2 years ago. There is no package for Wine (you have to install it manually), several libraries are missing and so on. Generally Ubuntu repositories seem to lack several packages available in Portage. It's also not that updated that people say. You often end Ubuntu also only seems to support PowerPC, i386 and amd64 (probably also Core2duo 64bit and ia64) whereas Gentoo supports a load of architectures. i386 also feels a bit unoptimized for a P4. Firefox behaves very weird on all my Ubuntu installations as It sometimes opens up a new window when clicking a link which has no scrollbars, adressbars and so on. When you close that window the whole browser shuts down, very annoying :evil: . Ubuntu also has made Gnome much better than it is on Gentoo but I still don't like the way the file manager works etc.

I'm pretty lost here. I think I like Gentoo more but I don't know if I have the time to manage it anymore :( . Anyone knows if the situation has gone better? Is the "easy" install working correctly now?
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RuiP
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaZoR1394 wrote:
... Firefox behaves very weird on all my Ubuntu installations as It sometimes opens up a new window when clicking a link which has no scrollbars, adressbars and so on. When you close that window the whole browser shuts down, very annoying :evil: . Ubuntu also has made Gnome much better than it is on Gentoo but I still don't like the way the file manager works etc.

I'm pretty lost here. I think I like Gentoo more but I don't know if I have the time to manage it anymore :( . Anyone knows if the situation has gone better? Is the "easy" install working correctly now?


I never understand why firefox was so slow on ubuntu. I always use swiftfox (there are even a deb version for ubuntu) or the plain firefox from mozilla site... much better and always updated.

I don't quite understand what you mean by the "differences" the file manager work... i presume that you are talking about the way default options for mouse clicks are changed in Breezy. That has been put to normal on Dapper and on Edgy. It behaves like any other nautilus on any distro.
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boniek
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not using Ubuntu, but I have heard of very cool thing you can do with it, namely:
Code:
apt-get autoremove package

If it works as intended I may just install Ubuntu and play with it a bit 8) (at least till Paludis hits stable :))
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Kenji Miyamoto
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boniek wrote:
I'm not using Ubuntu, but I have heard of very cool thing you can do with it, namely:
Code:
apt-get autoremove package

If it works as intended I may just install Ubuntu and play with it a bit 8) (at least till Paludis hits stable :))
I'm not sure if this is a joke, but that's because Ubuntu inherits from Debian.
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cokey
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kenji Miyamoto wrote:
boniek wrote:
I'm not using Ubuntu, but I have heard of very cool thing you can do with it, namely:
Code:
apt-get autoremove package

If it works as intended I may just install Ubuntu and play with it a bit 8) (at least till Paludis hits stable :))
I'm not sure if this is a joke, but that's because Ubuntu inherits from Debian.
it must be, he wants to use paludis :roll:
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boniek
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kenji Miyamoto wrote:
boniek wrote:
I'm not using Ubuntu, but I have heard of very cool thing you can do with it, namely:
Code:
apt-get autoremove package

If it works as intended I may just install Ubuntu and play with it a bit 8) (at least till Paludis hits stable :))
I'm not sure if this is a joke, but that's because Ubuntu inherits from Debian.

It doesn't matter if it is inherited from debian. It is still present in ubuntu. Gentoo suits my needs, but with all that racket about ubuntu I just wanted to find at least one reason to try it :D
cokehabit wrote:
it must be, he wants to use paludis :roll:

Whats wrong with that?
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cokey
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boniek wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
it must be, he wants to use paludis :roll:
Whats wrong with that?
paludis is a joke, born out of politics more than necessity
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boniek
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
boniek wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
it must be, he wants to use paludis :roll:
Whats wrong with that?
paludis is a joke, born out of politics more than necessity

I think it is interesting in itself and I don't care if it was born out of politics. The more choice we have the better. If I won't like it after trying it out I won't use it. It's not like portage is perfect either.
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