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Gherald
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

soldreth wrote:
Perhaps I should try "emerge girlfriend"
better yet... hot-babe

*ducks*
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soldreth
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:38 am    Post subject: One more thing... Reply with quote

Does apt have all the neat little gimmicks, such as rss-glx? How about xsimpsons? I just can't believe that apt has everything that portage does! Portage is so BIG!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apt has the largest package repository on the face of the planet

if it helps you understand things, Gentoo 1.0 was released in 2002 whereas Debian was founded way back in 1993
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psyqil
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just yesterday I showed in another thread that debian has 17819 packages. Now, some of them are splitted from what is one ebuild in portage, but that is really BIG! :D
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:53 am    Post subject: Alright, alright... Reply with quote

...so it's got a big repository. Okay, let's make that MASSIVE.

That's a definite plus. But how up to date would my Ubuntu system be? I didn't stick with it long enough to know; but as for Gentoo, I know that I can emerge sync once a week and upgrade software with ease. And it's no trouble to get the latest JDK either (although in this case I unmasked something marked as dangerous so I'll probably be crying in a few days when something explodes.)

It's not really that hard to install the latest binaries, is it? I mean... I can always just download the newest version of Firefox or JDK-1.5.0_01 - but what's better for a laptop? It might be strenuous on my little CPU to compile large software programs, but doesn't the optimized result make up for it over time?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

psyqil wrote:
http://packages.debian.org/testing/interpreters/drscheme

You just need to set up the right repositories for Ubuntu, I doubt there's much in portage that's not available as a *.deb.



One nice thing about source-based distros is that they avoid some licensing and distribution restrictions placed on binary-based distros. There are restricted video formats, for example, that don't exist in any Ubuntu or Debian repositories due to legal issues. You have to search for a .deb or a .tar.gz on the web, download it, and install it manually. Or, you have to add some unofficial repository to your sources.list that may or may not break your system. Either way, it's not handled seamlessly.

Gentoo avoids all these problems, and handles these situations more elegantly. All Gentoo distributes are ebuilds with instructions on where and how to download and install software. Packages aren't actually downloaded from Gentoo servers themselves, so restrictions are avoided. And, through the magic of portage, everything is handled automatically in a consistent/elegant way.

Is this a very big deal? No. Are there an extensive number of packages that fall under this category? Probably not. But, it's still a nice feature. :)
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curtis119
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:49 am    Post subject: Re: One more thing... Reply with quote

soldreth wrote:
Does apt have all the neat little gimmicks, such as rss-glx? How about xsimpsons? I just can't believe that apt has everything that portage does! Portage is so BIG!


One of the things that Debian doesn't have in the official repository is mplayer. I have no idea of what could be causing debian not to include it. You have to add an un-official apt source to get it.
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psyqil
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curtis, when there's something you have no idea of, I get curious, and a good starting point seems to be here:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/05/msg00625.html


Last edited by psyqil on Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gherald
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is very strange, seing as mplayer is more popular than the linux kernel. ;)
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psyqil
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

freeix wrote:
That is very strange, seing as mplayer is more popular than the linux kernel. ;)
That's probably because the kernel actually ships with debian! :P
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

psyqil wrote:
freeix wrote:
That is very strange, seing as mplayer is more popular than the linux kernel. ;)
That's probably because the kernel actually ships with debian! :P
Linux doesn't always shipped with Debian. There are some exceptions ;)
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curtis119
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

psyqil wrote:
Curtis, when there's something you have no idea of, I get curious, and a good starting point seems to be here:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/05/msg00625.html


Good find pysqil!! Very interesting reading indeed. I knew gentoo had a problem with mplayer devs and optimizations (CFLAGS). When bug reporting(the mplayer ebuild strips EVERYTHING from your flags) the mplayer devs won't even look at the report if even one single custom flag has been included in the build. I had no idea of the debian problems though. Don't get me wrong, I use mplayer and love it but the devs are kinda snooty, whinny bitches if you ask me. Oh well, I don't have to interact with them to use their software.

I really liked this quote from those mailing lists

gabucino@mplayerhq.hu wrote:
Just as Linus said on dri-devel, it would be better to go and _include_ things
with unclear legality (S3TC), and see if it matters to anyone, than go and
whine in the corner.


:lol: :lol:

He really socks it to the debian devs left and right. I wonder what the gentoo devs have to say about mplayer? hmmmmmm.....


Well, after a half hour of searching I couldn't dig up any really juicy stuff about mplayer on any of the gentoo mailing lists. The mplayer mailing lists actually have a bunch of *good* comments about gentoo. They seem to like us. :D

Jan Knutar had this to say:

Jan Knutar wrote:

I was refering mostly to the stereotypical Gentoo smart-idiot type user,
that spends an afternoon hacking the scripts to make them accept his
insane CFLAGS, and then complain when the resulting binary is totally
broken ;-)

Gentoo has probably the least-broken distribution package of MPlayer
these days, so no offence was meant towards you guys ;-)


Cool, we have the best mplayer package. And when he says "least-broken" he means that as a really good compliment. Those mplayer people are harsh as hell to every other distro's package maintainers as I have ever seen on a FOSS mailing list. I mean HARSH. They cut up every distro on the planet and roast them alive. Their even harsher than ciarnm!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I just put Ubuntu on a "bits-and-pieces" box I'm setting up for my lady as a resplacement for Win98.
Looks the goods - just what is wanted for a Windows person.

Tried (unsucessfully) to build a module for a rt2500 based ASUS proprietry wifi@home card. Got the source tree down, but the /lib/modules/.../build was missing.
What the hell, I'll just throw a standard PCI wifi card at it instead.

Some-one asked what kernel - I put in the stable release, and it rolled up to 2.6.8 as part of the install. No bad - there are still a lot of people at lower than that in the world.
Pretty slick all up.

I can see Gentoo and Ubuntu co-existing in our household - on separate boxes.
Only concern I have is the involvement of Canonical. After the Redhat "free" back-down that begat Fedora, I have little faith in promises of corporate largesse.
But we can always move to another distro if that happens again.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

freeix wrote:
Have you tried GRP? I doubt that would take 12 hours...

VidaLinux looks cool but I'm waiting for it to mature, Knoppix gives me a quick fix when I need it.


Actually no. I don't even know what that is. :oops:
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MdaG wrote:
freeix wrote:
Have you tried GRP? I doubt that would take 12 hours...

VidaLinux looks cool but I'm waiting for it to mature, Knoppix gives me a quick fix when I need it.


Actually no. I don't even know what that is. :oops:


Gentoo's Universal LiveCD + Package CD


The package CD is not available on every mirror though. You have to search through them to find it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, ok. Then that's what I've been using all along 8) Still takes time though.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MdaG wrote:
Oh, ok. Then that's what I've been using all along 8) Still takes time though.

Then you haven't been doing it right. The whole point of the GRP disk is that there is no compiling, except the kernel. It simply installs a pre-compiled binary. It can't take longer than any other install that uses binaries.

If you choose things that are not on the cd then, indeed it will need compiling (unless you download other pre-compiled bianries - there are a couple of sites offering them).
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MdaG
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm true. I guess it's the emerge --update world that does it...

But then I don't see a reason not to use VidaLinux. I can still uninstall all the crap that goes with that right? I really don't like all that typing in the console before I get my WM up and running. VidaLinux automates everything.... right?


Right now I'm using a stage 3 and genkernel. basically I'm not doing anything. The only reason I like Gentoo is because of Portage and that it's fairly up to date. It's also "tweakable" if I should ever want to tweak something. The only thing I miss is an easy installer that does everything for me. I want it to create a clean small system (with a working kernel that supports all my hardware) and I'll take it from there.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I am aware Vidalinux does, indeed, automate everything. I've never atually used it though.

Give it a go. I like to install new Linux distros on a spare partition I have. I always end up back with Gentoo very quickly . My longest foray away was with Arch Linux and that was a whole two weeks, LOL.

I tried Ubuntu but didn't like it. Simple as that really, plus a lot of stuff was out of date (and I know about the extra repositories you can use) but then try to uninstall something ('Can't uninstall forefox, it is a system critical file!).

Amyway, do give it a go. It's on my list of ones to try out.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to try and install a new distro but I do not want to mess with my partitions: is there a way to install a new distro in a sort of chroot or loop type thing where it reside on the same partition as my current distro? I use ReiserFS as my FS, btw.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AgenT wrote:
I want to try and install a new distro but I do not want to mess with my partitions: is there a way to install a new distro in a sort of chroot or loop type thing where it reside on the same partition as my current distro? I use ReiserFS as my FS, btw.


You could use VMWare. That is really the only way to install and use a GUI in the new OS, unless I am missing something.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any other *free* option? :)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AgenT wrote:
Any other *free* option? :)


lol well I guess your kinda out of luck. One "free-er" option is to find an old hard drive that is in some decrepid old computer and use that to test on. I have done that more than once.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AgenT wrote:
Any other *free* option? :)



User Mode Linux

It's free.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could sign up for the Beta version of VMWare 5. I was using it for a bit and it proved quite nice.

There is also Bochs
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