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Sunnz
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:27 am    Post subject: Visual Basic? Reply with quote

Anyone uses a Visual Basic like IDE on Linux?

I always have missed the easiness of VB on Windows where I can build small silly programs in a blink... I know this can be done with shell scripting as well, but it just isn't as natural when you are working with a browser and wanted soem calulation results in a text box...
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out Kommander which could be the future of desktop development ;) It's supposed to be easy to chuck a basic form together.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's Gambas
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wait for MonoDevelop to come out. Then you guys will really know what RAD is. Of course, it's pretty much Gtk# only, but it's still cool.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Just wait for MonoDevelop to come out. Then you guys will really know what RAD is. Of course, it's pretty much Gtk# only, but it's still cool.
Any word on whether or not you'll be able to import firefox/opera or openoffice spreadsheets into an application written in Mono? I found this feature particularly useful with .Net (where I could import IE and Excel into an application).
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:42 pm    Post subject: Real Basic Reply with quote

You might be interested in Real Basic, I hear it's supposed to be easy for simple apps, it uses GTK. Only problem is it is proprietary, the basic version for linux is free but it is limited in certain ways such as it can only make apps for linux, Pay for it and you can compile for Linux, Windows and Mac OS X. http://www.realbasic.com/. It's been discussed on the Linux ActionShow podcast.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh ffs just use a real language.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChristyMcJesus wrote:
Oh ffs just use a real language.


Nothing wrong with Basic, for the stuff that it's intended to be used for.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really care what language it is in, as long as it is something similar to c/java/haskell/ada/basic... I just thought it would be nice to have something like Visual Basic where you just draw buttons and stuff and just click put codes into the buttons and quickily "hack up" a simple GUI.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's too bad that Borland abandoned Kylix.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChristyMcJesus wrote:
Oh ffs just use a real language.

++
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok - here's a challenge (and I know I've knocked it myself, albeit in jest) - but what exactly is wrong with Basic ? For the stuff that it's intended for it's pretty darn good - no farting about with a seperate GUI toolkit, + quick and easy frontends. IMHO it gets a bad rap mainly cause of sucky design, which is possible any any language.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
but what exactly is wrong with Basic ?


m$ and dot net. :lol: :lol:
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
Ok - here's a challenge (and I know I've knocked it myself, albeit in jest) - but what exactly is wrong with Basic ? For the stuff that it's intended for it's pretty darn good - no farting about with a seperate GUI toolkit, + quick and easy frontends. IMHO it gets a bad rap mainly cause of sucky design, which is possible any any language.

Besides, ROM BASIC was the first programming language many of us learned (taught ourselves actually). Nostalgia has got to count for something. :)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bah humbug.

You've never used Basic unless you first had to load it from a paper tape. :D

.. and to do that, you had to enter a short bootstrap program using binary switches!

(Believe me, fat-fingering a bunch of binary gave you a special incentive for "uptime!")
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunnz wrote:
I don't really care what language it is in, as long as it is something similar to c/java/haskell/ada/basic... I just thought it would be nice to have something like Visual Basic where you just draw buttons and stuff and just click put codes into the buttons and quickily "hack up" a simple GUI.

I recommend you try kommander; it has a simple syntax for interface logic (cf VB), but mostly you use it to control other progs, which can be in any language (eg Python which would be useful, Perl, C/C++, Java, Haskell etc.) Since that's the basic UNIX philosophy (lots of little apps, with extensive command line configuration, which can be linked together in any combination) you have control of pretty much anything.

Getting back off topic;):
Personally I think BASIC is great for it's purpose: teaching Beginners imperative programming. In terms of language design I think C and its derivatives (C++, Java, PHP etc at least syntactically) are frankly ugly and a PITA to type. (NB I code a lot of C at the moment.)
The curly brackets and semicolon statement delimiter are from a time when compiler writers were up against real memory restrictions. Nowadays boxen can easily keep all the code in RAM.

I also think any programmer should have to have done at least one Assembler language, preferably- at least on a basic level- more.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
Sunnz wrote:
I don't really care what language it is in, as long as it is something similar to c/java/haskell/ada/basic... I just thought it would be nice to have something like Visual Basic where you just draw buttons and stuff and just click put codes into the buttons and quickily "hack up" a simple GUI.

I recommend you try kommander; it has a simple syntax for interface logic (cf VB), but mostly you use it to control other progs, which can be in any language (eg Python which would be useful, Perl, C/C++, Java, Haskell etc.) Since that's the basic UNIX philosophy (lots of little apps, with extensive command line configuration, which can be linked together in any combination) you have control of pretty much anything.
COol, I'll give it a try!!

steveL wrote:

I also think any programmer should have to have done at least one Assembler language, preferably- at least on a basic level- more.
Well I have done some at school... but on a virtual machine thingy... so it is rather limited and unrealistic...

The teachers has talked about asm for x86 and sparc, and how go compile them with gcc...

But how do one actually go learn about how x86 instructions work?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sundialsvc4 wrote:
Bah humbug.

You've never used Basic unless you first had to load it from a paper tape. :D

.. and to do that, you had to enter a short bootstrap program using binary switches!

(Believe me, fat-fingering a bunch of binary gave you a special incentive for "uptime!")


Amen.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing wrong with BASIC, except for the fact that it was the first language I was taught, and I don't think I wrote many working programs in it. Couple that with the fact that teachers are absolute bastards to the less than bright students, and BASIC fills me with rage thinking of those days.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunnz wrote:
Well I have done some at school... but on a virtual machine thingy... so it is rather limited and unrealistic...

Hmmm. Was it IBM 360 assembler using the ASSIST or ASSIST/I emulator?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like the way it deals with memory, arrays, variables, variable types, functions, error handling, file I/O, or libraries. They're all hackish add-ons that don't fit the concept or syntax of the language very well, interfere with code reuse, and are pretty inflexible in general. It's also got so much "legacy" stuff rattling around in it that you can hit by accident -- $DATE (or was that DATE$) set the date in the original IBM PC BASIC, and still does now, so do not use it as a variable name. It's also about as portable as a post that's been concreted into the ground. Which... doesn't really leave a lot for me to like about it.

I also dislike that it's trained a whole generation of future programmers to make everything event-based and GUI-based. It's a great style of programming for interfaces, but horrible for application design.

It's all well and good to make a GUI interface, but the logic should be seperated from the frontend, not an inseperable part of it. What if you wanted to use that code again? It'd be easier to rewrite it from scratch than to peck out the essential bits piece by piece from their random scattering in various onclick()'s.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunnz wrote:
But how do one actually go learn about how x86 instructions work?


http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/AoA/Linux/index.html
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stelth wrote:
Sunnz wrote:
But how do one actually go learn about how x86 instructions work?


http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/AoA/Linux/index.html
Cool, I'll have a look at it!!! Thanks!!!

(It is kinda funny that I asked for a BASIC-kind thing and end up looking at assembly!!!)
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corona688 wrote:
I don't like the way it deals with memory, arrays, variables, variable types, functions, error handling, file I/O, or libraries. They're all hackish add-ons that don't fit the concept or syntax of the language very well, interfere with code reuse, and are pretty inflexible in general. It's also got so much "legacy" stuff rattling around in it that you can hit by accident -- $DATE (or was that DATE$) set the date in the original IBM PC BASIC, and still does now, so do not use it as a variable name. It's also about as portable as a post that's been concreted into the ground. Which... doesn't really leave a lot for me to like about it.

I also dislike that it's trained a whole generation of future programmers to make everything event-based and GUI-based. It's a great style of programming for interfaces, but horrible for application design.

It's all well and good to make a GUI interface, but the logic should be seperated from the frontend, not an inseperable part of it. What if you wanted to use that code again? It'd be easier to rewrite it from scratch than to peck out the essential bits piece by piece from their random scattering in various onclick()'s.
Couldn't you just put the code that does the real work inside a function or class and solve the particular aspect of reuse or am I missing something?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadow Skill wrote:
Couldn't you just put the code that does the real work inside a function or class and solve the particular aspect of reuse or am I missing something?


You could, but the culture of VB doesn't encourage it. The emphasis seems to be on quickly cobbling together something that works. As Corona mentioned, the facilities to do this nicely are also hacked on and not aesthetically pleasing.
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