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NotQuiteSane
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:41 am    Post subject: Few general PPC questions Reply with quote

Ok, noob here.

been using SuSE (x86) since just before 8.0 came out. I'm transitioning over to PPC, and on my brother's urging (family geek), i'm gonna give Gentoo a try. I'd rather have SuSE, but since they don't produce a non-enterprise version...

at worst, if I don't like it i can wipe the drive and stick debian on ther or something. or SuSE with Manfred's patches (brings it to 8.2 level)

So anyhow I've been doing research in the forums while i try to get a good deal on a g4 in ebay. I have questions on hardware upgrades.

I intend to start with software SCSI raid, and later upgrade to hardware raid. will this change require a complete re-install?

also, at some future point, i was thinking a 2nd mini lcd to show log messages would be nice. will adding that in (and a dualhead card) be any real trouble?

also, an installatian question. do I need to keep OS whatever? I like the PPC design, but not apple software (where the hell is the command line?). the only reason I can see to keep it is maybe some hardware upgrades will need to be "setup" in mac OS. but if i don't need it...

NQS
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autocrosser
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:45 am    Post subject: Command line in OSX Reply with quote

If you are setting up one of the "newer" macs (read the silver-side models)-then you'll get a flavor of OSX (10.1-10.2-10.3)--The command-line tool is brightly called "Terminal" --yea-no duh---The underside of all OSX is the Darwin project --you can call up the specs at Darwin.org---The Dual "Mirror-Door" Macs are about two years old & are a good buy on eBay--I've got a Dual 1.25 that still runs very well-The only mod I'd get for sure is the heat-tube heatsink from one of the Dual 1.42's--makes the "windtunnel mac" much nicer to live with-- :lol: I bought mine new--paid over $2500 for the tower--you can get the Dual 867's for sub-$1000 with a reasonable amount of memory--Good to hear from someone else in Jefferson State--I'm in Eagle Point---talk to you soon----got the 10.3 installs & a fair amount of OSX software---
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Tolstoi
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the newworld Macs you don't need to run a MacOS anymore. You can setup a Linux only machine. It only requires a small Apple_Bootstrap for yaboot.
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thedoc
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Few general PPC questions Reply with quote

NotQuiteSane wrote:
where the hell is the command line?


Urm, I am amazed you re transitioning to Mac PPC Hardware without knowing anything about OS X - it has an open source BSD Subsystem (i.e. POSIX compliant *nix variant, predates linux), which allows you to get to the command line (bash, no less) through the GUI by double-clicking Terminal. Not so different from opening up konsole or whatever? You can even boot into a root zsh shell in single-user mode if you want (single user mode)!
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NotQuiteSane
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tolstoi wrote:
On the newworld Macs you don't need to run a MacOS anymore. You can setup a Linux only machine. It only requires a small Apple_Bootstrap for yaboot.


Right, I understand that. but i'm seeing some hardware upgrades upgrades that claim to need MacOS toget them setup. or do they?

NQS
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NotQuiteSane
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Few general PPC questions Reply with quote

thedoc wrote:
NotQuiteSane wrote:
where the hell is the command line?


Urm, I am amazed you re transitioning to Mac PPC Hardware without knowing anything about OS X - it has an open source BSD Subsystem (i.e. POSIX compliant *nix variant, predates linux), which allows you to get to the command line (bash, no less) through the GUI by double-clicking Terminal. Not so different from opening up konsole or whatever? You can even boot into a root zsh shell in single-user mode if you want (single user mode)!


I do know of OS X. but I'm on a limited budget, and I can't guarentee I'll get a computer with it installed. I see copies for $50, buti'd rather go buy another drive or memory or something with that $50.

NQS
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autocrosser
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:49 pm    Post subject: Otherworld computing Reply with quote

Otherworld has specials on the OSX software close to new upgrade times--you can buy the full install OS for $10/$15 at those times--but, most newer macs will come with a OS installed--even from eBay--You normally just hook-up things to a Mac--thery just work--unlike PCs---I don't see many parts that would require the need for OSX--I normally "borrow" a friends PC & flash the few units that "need" it--- :wink:
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thedoc
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Few general PPC questions Reply with quote

NotQuiteSane wrote:
I do know of OS X. but I'm on a limited budget, and I can't guarentee I'll get a computer with it installed. I see copies for $50, buti'd rather go buy another drive or memory or something with that $50. NQS


That's cool - I have a family license of OS X (5 legal copies in one household) so I guess I don't have that problem! BTW http://www.macsales.com is the store you need for discount Mac things in US.

You shouldn't need OS X for anything if you buy a Power Mac G4 of any type. Technically it should be have better hardware compatibility than OS X, especially with stuff like hardware RAID PCI Cards.

Gentoo is the way to go with PPC Linux btw. Really, nothing is worse than a 'just works' distribution which 'just doesn't'. Go for Gentoo any time

Mike
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NotQuiteSane
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: Few general PPC questions Reply with quote

thedoc wrote:
You shouldn't need OS X for anything if you buy a Power Mac G4 of any type. Technically it should be have better hardware compatibility than OS X, especially with stuff like hardware RAID PCI Cards.


That's if I can get one. right now I'm using jbidwatcher to try to get either a AGP G4 (first choice) or a B&W G3 (second choice). if I get the g3, i see some upgrades may require being setup in MacOS

Quote:
Gentoo is the way to go with PPC Linux btw. Really, nothing is worse than a 'just works' distribution which 'just doesn't'. Go for Gentoo any time

Mike


I'm still skeptical about Gentoo. But i'm willing to retain an open mind and try it.

One of the great things about OSS is I don't have to use it. there are other choices.

NQS
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thedoc
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't buy a G3 really, especially if you mean to upgrade it - it is a total false economy. The original AGP Power Mac is a MUCH better choice for lots and lots of reasons.

Mike
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iTux
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NotQuiteSane wrote:
Tolstoi wrote:
On the newworld Macs you don't need to run a MacOS anymore. You can setup a Linux only machine. It only requires a small Apple_Bootstrap for yaboot.


Right, I understand that. but i'm seeing some hardware upgrades upgrades that claim to need MacOS toget them setup. or do they?

NQS


Sometimes Apple updates the OpenFirmware (~BIOS~) when OS X receives updates. I am not sure if this is what you are talking about with "hardware upgrades upgrades". I don't know either if these "open firmware" updates/fixes are absolutely necessary. I don't know if there are other ways to get them.

iTux
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NotQuiteSane
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedoc wrote:
Don't buy a G3 really, especially if you mean to upgrade it - it is a total false economy. The original AGP Power Mac is a MUCH better choice for lots and lots of reasons.

Mike


Only way i'll get one is if it's under $50.other wise I'll get a G4.

NQS
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