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gfuhrer
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:57 am    Post subject: Why use KDE or GNOME? Reply with quote

I just don't get it.. Huge, clumsy, senseless... They're no better than M$ Windows.. :)
Black/Flux/Open -box are much faster and more comfortable (IMHO)..
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inode77
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like something inbetween => XFCE4.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

inode77 wrote:
I like something inbetween => XFCE4.

Oh, yeah.. Nice one :) Forgot about it. Used it for couple of months but then returned to Flux again..
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is faster and what one is more comfortable with has a subjective component. I am faster and more comfortable with KDE than with any other desktop environment (I especially like apps like kate, kontact, konqueror, konsole, and kpdf). Therefor I use it, it makes me personally more productive. Does this make sense to you?
If not try because Black/Flux/Open -box are tiny, clumsy, senseless and are much worse than Windows.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

* I would use all the heavy GNOME apps anyway -- I use all of their features!

* Consistent look and feel.

* Nice integration touches: when I hit a "mailto" link, an Evolution draft window pops up -- no configuration required. The date widget in my panel brings up my Evolution calendar when clicked. My emails with attachments magically have launchers for Gnumeric, Abiword, etc. I look forward to GAIM and encryption integration, as well as Beagle for personal information retrieval.

No doubt KDE users see the same benefits.
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gfuhrer
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asimon wrote:
What is faster and what one is more comfortable with has a subjective component. I am faster and more comfortable with KDE than with any other desktop environment (I especially like apps like kate, kontact, konqueror, konsole, and kpdf). Therefor I use it, it makes me personally more productive. Does this make sense to you?
If not try because Black/Flux/Open -box are tiny, clumsy, senseless and are much worse than Windows.

It depends on the system you use. I suppose you've got a fast CPU.

P.S. I didn't say that K and G are _worse_ than Windows :wink: No better != worse. Since nothing can be worse. Hmm.. Except BeOS and Lindows. :)
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no idea, I love xfce, period ;)
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use kde (the 3.4 version) because I simply can't live without (in othat order):
1) konqueror
2) konsole
3) kontact
4) kate
5) amarok
6) k3b
7) kpdf

It's also very fast and responsive.

I tried fluxbox - simple and nice but lacking functionality and integration (and an easy way to configure it without messing with config files).
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i used fvwm2 but then unfortunately lost my config files :(. so had to switch to kde coz i was too lazy to write 'em again. the only thing i liked in kde was konqueror but other than that kde looked heavy. then i used opera and there was no need to use konqueror again. so i switched to gnome. gnome was nice, it was light but it gave some very dumb warnings which irritated me a lot.
so i am switching back to fvwm2, it lets me to do what i want to do

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like neither KDE nor Gnome to use as a DE. But I use lots of apps from each one (mostly kde) and so I used to always have them both installed. But then I realized the size of my / was nearing 10gb and so I did some cleaning, among others I killed all gnome packages I've never used and just kept stuff like gnome-terminal which I need.

I've been running xfce w/gnome-panel on both the desktop and the laptop for some time. Though I've tried other wm's, no other has proven quite as good for my liking.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it's one of those "to each his own" kinda things. Personally I prefer Fluxbox.

With the way KDE has now been broken down into smaller packages it's no problem to emerge and use the pieces of KDE such as konquerer or other KDE apps that you want without all the added bloat of KDE.

Fluxbox isn't hard to configure at all, and you can integrate whatever apps and features you like. It's fast and light which is what I personally like. But that's me. I don't have KDE or GNOME because I don't want the bloat. My poor (old) little laptop just doesn't need the added load.

Older Compaq Armada m700
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Literally held together with duct tape in places

Once I get healed up from the car wreck (broken hip) and get back to working again, I'm gonna save my pennies and finally break down and buy or build a new machine.

A lot of people use KDE and GNOME, I'm just not one them.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use KDE because it feels so integrated (how the apps interact with each other, especially the kontact suite).

And well.. if you use *box (or any other non-de), you need external apps, which results in longer app startup times (if you don't preload the libs). In my KDE, the necessary libraries get loaded at startup so the whole desktop feels really fast and efficient. So why not use the whole DE and benefit from the integration if you need the libs anyway?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many applications I like are KDE-based: Konqueror, Amarok, Kate, K3B, Kontact, and now the new KPDF, so it is logical for me to use KDE. The only downside I can find is compilation time, but I can put up with that.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a difference between using KDE apps and using KDE as your DE...
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Why use KDE or GNOME? Reply with quote

gfuhrer wrote:
I just don't get it.. Huge, clumsy, senseless... They're no better than M$ Windows.. :)
Black/Flux/Open -box are much faster and more comfortable (IMHO)..


Well, that's only you opinion. I tried Fluxbox, and I found KDE to be alot more comfortable and usable. Yes, Fluxbox loads instantly, whereas KDE takes few seconds. But that is not IMO important.

Seriously, the whole promise of this thread is pointless. "Why do you guys use <NAME OF GUI>? I like <NAME OF ANOTHER GUI>>, and I think that everyone should use it instead!". uh OK. thanks for telling me! I'll unmerge my KDE right away and install *box instead! It's a good thing you told me that I have been using wrong GUI all these years!

:roll:
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want to second Evangelion in thy way that i think most of those KDE vs GNOME, KDE == GNOME == bloat threads are quite pointless.
If the discussion would be on a more technical level it could get interesting.
But all those discussions about personal taste/preferences arent particulary interesting.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evangelion = Right on.

I use Gnome because I'd use all Gnome-based apps anyway. GAIM, Firefox, Thunderbird, GEdit, etc., and because I like how easy it is to customize. Other than that, I enjoy Fluxbox on my older machines.

~~ Andrew D.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i find this argument weird. i mean, even if someone uses a window manager or xfce instead of the main DEs, if hes a serious casual user hell probably use a set of either kde or gnome apps if not both (amarok or k3b, some groupware solution such as kontact or evolution, a decent pdf viewer, many ppl dont like xpdf)
so you get some loss in speed no matter what if you resort to using serious apps.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakub wrote:
I use kde (the 3.4 version) because I simply can't live without (in othat order):
1) konqueror
2) konsole
3) kontact
4) kate
5) amarok
6) k3b
7) kpdf

It's also very fast and responsive.

I tried fluxbox - simple and nice but lacking functionality and integration (and an easy way to configure it without messing with config files).


I'm continuely impressed with the speed of KDE. Every release gets faster while they add more features and make it look better. On my machine the speed difference between windows and KDE is now hardly even noticable.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the record: I don't use KDE or Gnome and don't have any of their apps installed. My wm is ratpoison, I use Opera for browsing, aterm as terminal, xpdf for pdf viewing, mplayer for videos and feh for pictures, moosic as Audio-player, Gnus as Mail-Client, emacs as editor, irssi for irc and bitlbee via irssi for icq-messages. If I haven't forgotten anything that should be all I use for typical desktop needs.

To pull this more on a factual level perhaps you could describe what Features you think you need e.g. from a PDF Viewer. You say most people don't like xpdf while I would say what more than Fit Page/Width, Prev/Next Page and free zooming could you want from one (other than general performance of course).

Or why do you prefer amarok over xmms or even a GUI-less player like moosic. I use moosic with exactly 3 hotkey-bindings in ratpoison, 1 for play, 1 for stop and 1 for next song and it is all I need for audio although I could understand if someone would miss the possibility to seek inside a mp3. So what is missing in XMMS for you to prefer amarok?

When you say Groupware I guess you mean mail-client and adress-database. While I agree that this is a highly personal choice which program you use for this there are lots and lots of programs out there to provide this, many without KDE or Gnome dependency, so what makes your program special? BBDB provides the adress-database part for me and one feature I like is the possibility to search for a regex over all fields of all entries and to define new entries on the fly. This makes adding custom information like e.g. IRC-Nicknames so much easier I think. So what is the special must-have feature of your groupware solution of choice?

I use irssi and bitlbee mainly because I use them through ssh/screen on my 24/7 server which allows me to have almost complete logs and I don't have to start so many programs when I start my pc. And from my experience there isn't a really stable and good graphical IRC-Client for Linux anyway. bitlbee is nice because it allows me to use basically the same interface for IRC and ICQ.

I use and paid for Opera because the highly integrated Interface provides lots of nice Features, here are just some of them:
- Mouse Gestures (without the alpha-software-feeling of the equivalents in Firefox)
- very responsive (Firefox feels just a bit too slow to me when opening menus, kind of like Java Programs)
- Crash-Recovery (reopens Windows that were open before crash; works if I reboot my PC and restart it too; and no it doesn't crash often)
- all Features integrated, no fiddling with lots of extensions
There are more but this shouldn't become a Browserwar-Thread so I will just say it is the best browser for me and the others just don't feel right, even though I regularly test Firefox (did that just today again) wether it has improved.

Emacs is just an Editor you can use for everything (programming in every language, system administration,...) and I like the maximum approach it takes more than the minimal approach vi, nano and similar editors use.

Perhaps I should end my post with a few words about ratpoison. After all Window managers are the original topic (although I think when mentioning KDE/Gnome you have to accept app discussions as on topic as well). Simply said I use ratpoison because I want a minimum-configuration window manager (after noticing Fvwm Configuration was too much work) , I use full-screen windows in all other Window Managers most of the time anyway and I don't like Eye-Candy. In ratpoison I don't need to think about Window Borders, Background Images, effects on minimize/maximize,...
The to my knowledge only app that does not run properly in ratpoison is The Gimp and I don't use that one. I really like the simple possibility to switch fast between two windows because I do that often when I e.g. watch a movie and nothing visually happens at the moment so I surf in parallel or I try some new tricks from this forum or another linux site and copy things to an aterm window. I also like the familiar interface as ratpoison uses basically the same keys as GNU screen for all similar functions. Just the prefix key is different.

I now want to ask you to present the reasons for your applications of choice in a similar way. There are reasons I didn't mention since that would have been a bit too long but I guess you get the idea. Perhaps with citing reasons one of us can convince other people why our program of choice is the best. With just stating "foo is the best. bar is shit" this won't be possible.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kai Hvatum wrote:
On my machine the speed difference between windows and KDE is now hardly even noticable.

That's supposed to be a good thing?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:04 am    Post subject: Re: Why use KDE or GNOME? Reply with quote

gfuhrer wrote:
I just don't get it.. Huge, clumsy, senseless... They're no better than M$ Windows.. :)
Black/Flux/Open -box are much faster and more comfortable (IMHO)..


i have never seen a more blatant example of flamebait.

i personally use blackbox, but as stated before, to each his own....


linux is about choice; let people choose kde/gnome /whatever else they want, and start a more meaningful topic.

like what linus had for breakfast :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andrewd18 wrote:
Evangelion = Right on.

I use Gnome because I'd use all Gnome-based apps anyway. GAIM, Firefox, Thunderbird, GEdit, etc., and because I like how easy it is to customize. Other than that, I enjoy Fluxbox on my older machines.

~~ Andrew D.


of that list, you realize that only one is gnome based :wink:

gaim, firefox, and thunderbird are gtk based....

and gtk is GIMP tool kit, not gnome toolkit... (common misperception)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still using command line. Haha. The best overall
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:20 am    Post subject: Re: Why use KDE or GNOME? Reply with quote

Evangelion wrote:
Seriously, the whole promise of this thread is pointless. "Why do you guys use <NAME OF GUI>? I like <NAME OF ANOTHER GUI>>, and I think that everyone should use it instead!". uh OK. thanks for telling me! I'll unmerge my KDE right away and install *box instead! It's a good thing you told me that I have been using wrong GUI all these years!

+1 from me.

Moved to dups in favour of https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=2676
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