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tparker
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 10:31 am    Post subject: Gentoo vs. Yellowdog Reply with quote

I'm not new to linux or gentoo, or the Mac, but i'm new to installing Linux on a Mac.

I notice that YellowDog is based on Red Hat - as far as Linux on a PC is concerned, I dislike Red Hat and prefer Gentoo due to its flexibility. However, when it comes to Macs, I have no idea. What is everyone else's opinion?

Have people tried YellowDog? Is it any good? Would it be a better starting point? My main concern with installing Gentoo on my G5 is that I wish to install it to a spare partition on my second hard drive, NOT install it in front of my OS X. I do not wish to reinstall my OS X nor swap around the hard disks - I know YD can handle this straight out the box ; for Gentoo, I have not really found anything relevant in the install instructions as they all assume one is installing Gentoo on a fresh drive only, or replacing OS X altogether. Is the yaboot process easy enough for me with Gentoo?

The other issue is Mac-on-Linux... on YD this works out the box too. How is it in Gentoo?

Any further insight would be greatly appreciated!

Terence
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antrix
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I installed yellowdog on my ibook a couple of months back.

I don't recommend it, it did *not* work "out of the box" for me. The X server did not work out of the box, and the people in yellow dog forums were unable to help even though I asked a well formulated question.
So I fixed the x config file myself after fiddling for a couple of hours and then posted the solution on the boards. But no feedback was given whatsoever, even though other people were having the same problem.
(Perhaps their mailing lists are better).

I then had a working linux install, but I then yum gave me a *lot* of hassle.

To cut a long story short:

You *could* try it, it may work out for you.

But my personal recommendation for your MAC is:

1. Gentoo 2005 ppc, or
2. Ubuntu/Kubuntu ppc (not tried this myself but very promising)

My ibook is currently running Gentoo 2005 with latest packages, including kde 3.4, ~ppc amarok, 2.6 kernel etc.
Working extremely well, and would definately recommend it if you have the time to configure it.

Hope this helps.
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| 2.6.9-gentoo-r13 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2000+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux | (My desktop PC, which needs an update world)

| 2.6.11-gentoo-r6 PPC 7447A, altivec supported PowerBook6,5 GNU/Linux | (My iBook G4)
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JoseJX
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you're asking which is better on our forums, so obviously, Gentoo. :)

It really isn't hard to set up dual booting, yabootconfig and/or the example yaboot configurations provided with yaboot should be more than adequate to set it up.

Right now, MOL only works in 32bit userlands. Since I don't have a G5, I can't really tell you how to set that up, but I do know that the 32bit G5 kernel isn't well supported.
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DrZoidberg
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@tparker

You don't have to reformat/reinstall OS X to dual boot. Boot from the Gentoo minimal CD and use the included parted utility. parted can NON-DESTRUCTIVELY shrink your OS X partition to make room for gentoo.
Make sure you turn off HFS+ journalling using the Disk Utility in Mac OS X before resizing.

I have done this w/o problems on an iBook G4 1.2GHz and an old Pismo powerbook. Nothing terrible happened, and I saved a lot of time and hassles. Be careful with parted. It will not stop you from doing dumb stuff, but it isn't too hard to use. Of course, make a backup just in case things go wrong.
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Solra Bizna
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have Yellow Dog 2.3 on my Clamshell iBook. Getting X to work was a pain, and required a hack. Other things worked pretty well. I'm also running Yellow Dog 3.0 on my Mac server.
Those are the only two machines I've installed YDL on and had it be usable.
-:sigma.SB
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sktrdie
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrZoidberg wrote:
@tparker

You don't have to reformat/reinstall OS X to dual boot. Boot from the Gentoo minimal CD and use the included parted utility. parted can NON-DESTRUCTIVELY shrink your OS X partition to make room for gentoo.
Make sure you turn off HFS+ journalling using the Disk Utility in Mac OS X before resizing.

I have done this w/o problems on an iBook G4 1.2GHz and an old Pismo powerbook. Nothing terrible happened, and I saved a lot of time and hassles. Be careful with parted. It will not stop you from doing dumb stuff, but it isn't too hard to use. Of course, make a backup just in case things go wrong.

i have a powerbook with OS X, and i want to intsall Gentoo on it (it doesnt matter if just gentoo, or a dual-boot, i just wanna be able to use gentoo), the problem is that i dont have time/resources to back-up the files i have on it.. so ive read your post abt parted... i wanna be sure this works, and how it works exactly b4 using it... if it will save all my files.
Lets say i have just 10 gb out of the 40 gb HD that i want to save (documents, movies ec...)
Now on my pbook i only have 1 partition, the partition on which Mac os X is isntalled... with this parted i will be able to actually divide the partition in 2 and be able to shrink it to 10 gb, so the rest can be used to intsall gentoo?
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paddler
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 2:40 am    Post subject: gentoo ppc Reply with quote

I wasn't a newcomer to linux but like you I was a newcomer to linux on a Mac. In fact I had never used a Mac before. I installed YD but wasn't overly impressed. It seemed slow but there was nothing definate I could put my finger on, maybe it just wasn't much of a challange (it actually did pretty much work right out of the box for me except for the sound and a minor hack to get x working).

I did a stage 1 Gentoo install on my Mac Mini and have run into nothing that I couldn't solve through my own efforts or with the help of this forum. I have kde 3.4, xfce, sound, cd burning, in fact there was precious little that I wanted that I didn't manage to get installed.And its fast even on this little box. I was dual booting OSX for a while but I found myself never using it so when I upgraded the HD I restored my gentoo installation from backups (was back up and running in 20 min) but the Apple OS isn't with me anymore.

It did take me a lot longer to get Gentoo to where I wanted it but thats probably because this was the first time I ever used it and I had to go out and install everything manually that I wanted to run. If you already know Gentoo you should have no problem. Try the install on the second drive, I can't see why it wouldn't work and if its a spare partition you have nothing to lose. The Mac OS will co-exist happily with it
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tparker
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies.

Well YellowDog is now up to version 4 - it seems most people have been trying 3 and earlier, and I gather significant differences have been made since then. That said, I wasted four CDR's on YellowDog because installation complained about CRC error on my 2nd CD even after re-downloading and re-burning it (albeit from the same mirror). So now i'm taking the plunge with Gentoo....

One thing I do find is that the installation guide doesn't seem entirely consistent with what really happens - maybe because PPC architectures differ a lot? After giving up compiling gentoo-sources with PPC sound support (i've disabled it for now), I now can't seem to run yabootconfig without it complaining :

Quote:
yabootconfig: Cannot find a kernel, please locate one
Enter path to a kernel image: /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.11-gentoo-r8
yabootconfig: Could not determine necessary information, aborting...
yabootconfig: Are you using chroot yabootconfig instead of yabootconfig --chroot ?


The kernel, I notice, is 7mb... which seems a lot compared to the usual 1mb x86 kernel. Install guide says to use 'vmlinux' file for kernel - surely it should be arch/ppc64/boot/bzImage (like the x86 equivalent)? But there's no bzImage in there... Why the inconsistency?

Anyways... i've decided Gentoo now, so will see if I can get it running.

Thanks again!

Terence
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JoseJX
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've picked up on on one of the differences between x86 and PPC, PPC uses uncompressed kernels (vmlinux) instead of the compressed kernels (bzImage) to boot. It's not an inconsistency, just a different way of doing things.

As for yaboot config, are you running it from within your chroot? If so, you'll need to exit from the chroot before running yabootconfig. If you still can't get yabootconfig working, a manual configuration is pretty easy, all of the needed settings are in /etc/yaboot.conf. Once you have set up yaboot.conf, run
Code:
mkofboot -v

to write your yaboot configuration to the bootstrap partition.

Sound support on the G5 is still not very complete, but without knowing what your exact problem is, I can't really suggest a solution.

Feel free to let me know what else could be changed to make the documentation more clear.

Good luck!
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tparker
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for your helpful replies. I've come across a few more problem actually - but i'm not sure whether it's better to start new individual topics for them (easier for people to search in the future?) or just to reply here... so that I don't get flamed for posting a million times.

(For the record, I did try searching these, but the phpBB search algorithm is rather lousy and didn't turn up anything useful!)

I've finally got linux to boot - albeit with many problems:


1. Can't boot back into OSX. I keep having to zap my PRAM to get OSX again. My current yaboot.conf reads:

Code:

#ofboot=ultra1:
boot=/dev/sdb2
device=/ht@0,f2000000/pci@7/k2-sata-root@c/k2-sata@1/disk@0:
timeout=20
default=macosx
install=/usr/lib/yaboot/yaboot
magicboot=/usr/lib/yaboot/ofboot

image=/boot/kernel-2.6.11-gentoo-r8
        label=Linux
        partition=5
        root=/dev/sdb5
        read-only

macosx=hd:3


The device was auto-detected. One thing the documentation all assumes is that i'm /dev/sda - but my Linux is in /dev/sdb5 ; my MacOS is /dev/sda3. I've tried using that for the macosx= clause.


2. Still on yaboot... i've tried recompiling my kernel to change some settings, as well as fiddling with yaboot.conf. I copy the vmlinux file over again as normal and run 'yboot'. But when I next reboot the computer, it won't even go into linux - yaboot claims it's an invalid filesystem. I presume yaboot is like lilo in the sense 'yboot' must be run? I even tried running 'mkofboot' - but to no avail. I only managed to get linux working again after re-running the full yabootconfig. Normal?


3. All output is on my secondary monitor, not my primary one (I have a dual monitor setup). Is there no way to reverse them? Or is there any support to have both monitors utilised?


4. Following is output from compiling G5 sound on the gentoo-sources kernel tree:

Code:
CC [M]  sound/ppc/powermac.o
CC [M]  sound/ppc/pmac.o
sound/ppc/pmac.c:36:25: asm/feature.h: No such file or directory
sound/ppc/pmac.c: In function `snd_pmac_dbdma_alloc':
sound/ppc/pmac.c:67: warning: cast from pointer to integer of different size
sound/ppc/pmac.c:68: warning: implicit declaration of function `virt_to_bus'
sound/ppc/pmac.c: In function `snd_pmac_free':
sound/ppc/pmac.c:832: warning: implicit declaration of function `release_OF_resource'
sound/ppc/pmac.c: In function `snd_pmac_new':
sound/ppc/pmac.c:1131: warning: implicit declaration of function `request_OF_resource'
make[2]: *** [sound/ppc/pmac.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [sound/ppc] Error 2
make: *** [sound] Error 2


This happens for both modules and non-module.

Thanks again for all the help. It's MUCH appreciated!
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ryanCD
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RE: yaboot; you can modify the yaboot.conf on /dev/hda2, yaboot should find and use it when you reboot without you doing anything else.
I'm using a g3, so I don't know about any of the g5 specific stuff, but the gentoo installation handbook has a pretty handy yaboot.conf example with comments, you might try a modified version of that.
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoseJX wrote:
You've picked up on on one of the differences between x86 and PPC, PPC uses uncompressed kernels (vmlinux) instead of the compressed kernels (bzImage) to boot. It's not an inconsistency, just a different way of doing things.


Why is this JoseJX? I thought the gentoo 'way' was to have a consistant way of doing things across the architectures.
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