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pau
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:31 pm    Post subject: why are you installing gentoo on Mac? Reply with quote

I have a question to all of you (I already posted this but in the middle of another subject and I think nobody read it)...
In general this goes to everybody in this forum with dual boot gentoo/OSX... I have realised that there is a lot of people with dual boot...

What makes you keep OSX on your box?

If what you want is a unix system, well then you have OSX working perfectly... If not, maybe you want to go for the free thing and then linux/gentoo is the best choice but again... why do you keep OSX on your hard disk? Especially now that there's the possibility to make extreme airport work under linux

In my case it's just a question of ethic (I don't like any closed system) and language support... My mother tongue is Catalan and Apple is not supporting it, although we're about 11 million speakers, they decided not to include Catalan in their OSX and, even though I can manage more or less in English (as you see) and in other languages, I kind of stick to Catalan... They're supporting Norwegian or other languages spoken by less than three million people (like Danish) because... well "it's the money, idiot, it's the money!" :) And I don't like it
I will delete OSX totally and let the whole disk for gnu/linux...

But what about you? ... Just curious

Pau
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dcstimm
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

when I had my 700mhz ibook g3, linux just ran much faster than 10.1 / 10.2 at the time, when I sold my laptop and upgraded to a powerbook g4, I was runing 10.3 and then upgraded to 10.4 and its hard to go back to linux because OSX is running so smooth, but I still do. I cant stand how there isnt a plugin for safari or firefox that allows mpg or avi or wmv files to play full screen. I have this with linux with mplayerplugin and its very useful. I also like mythtv, and it runs better in linux. But airport extreme keeps me using osx.....

Linux just has far more ways to customize it. All OSX boxes look the same..
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:31 am    Post subject: OS X isn't great on OldWorld hardware... Reply with quote

I use Gentoo on a beige PowerMac G3/266MHz with 512Mb RAM. Although large compilations such as KDE 3.3 take a long time (around about 6 days IIRC!), once they are installed it makes the machine usable again. The same isn't strictly true for OS X.

I find OS X slows down quite a bit once the machine is being used frequently, with increasing hard disk thrashing and greater appication load times every day. This doesn't happen anywhere near as much when I use a nicely tuned Gentoo installation with ext3 or ReiserFS.

To put the final nail in the coffin, OS X hasn't been supported on my G3 since 10.2. Quite a bit of software is starting to require 10.3 as the minimum. This isn't an issue with Linux.

OS X is great, and if the latest versions were supported on my hardware I would probably stick with that and put up with the slowness, but as it is, Gentoo breathes new life into an old system.

My 2c.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, on linux the 3d-acceleration is not really usable ....(i only have tuxracer and quake2 running, quake3 will come soon i think)
so for games it is best to boot mac os x !!!

and airport-extreme is not working under linux, there is a hack to use it via mol (and a installed mac os x).
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I installed Gentoo Linux on my Powerbook because I can :-)

Linux provides me with a greater range of software for pen testing/forensics than OSX currently has. I installed MOL cause I want Airport extreme wireless access via Linux. I rarely boot into OSX nowadays and when I do it's usually to use something like Video Lan to play dvds.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like linux. and if i needed a more supported OS i have osx. i refuse to use winblows.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need iTunes to buy music (but then I synchronize using gtkpod).

I have an iBook and using OSX DVD player gives me twice the autonomy compared with Xine or Mplayer.

Also, there is no java plugin for firefox and I need this.

I have no flash plugin under LinuxPPC so sometimes I fall back on OSX for that.

That's pretty much it.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, for Japanese, neither Linux nor OS X are perfect. OS X has a good kanji server for Japanese. For me, it hits the right kanji more often than canna or wnn. The Japanese fonts are also much nicer on OS X. I know, I should port them over to the Linux side, but dealing with fonts in Linux is like wrestling with a 1000 arm giant sea squid. I'm procrastinating.

Airport. The penalty for forgetting to turn off the airport before quitting MOL can be as high as an OS X reinstall. That's a big price to pay in my opinion. I'm a distracted person with a lot on his mind. and I know I'm going to forget. I think we'll get a linux driver one of these days. Until then, I'll use the OS X side when I need to use wireless. When a linux driver comes out for the airport, I'll probably get rid of the Mac partition.

Printer output is better on the Mac side. This is a bit surprising to me considering I'm printing the same latex-generated stuff with the same texlive setup on the same printer, but it's ragged on gentoo. (And this is on a laser printer!) The same printer is hooked up to a pc running x86 Slackware and the output is just fine from there. The gentoo setup needs a little tweaking I guess.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mostly use OS X and not Gentoo on my PowerBook - but I have a desktop AMD64 machine at the office that runs Gentoo exclusively. The best reason I can give for installing Gentoo on the Mac at all was simply to see it could be done and show it to a number of friends :wink:

OS X still does lots of things that Linux has no solutions for or at least solutions that require a lot more everyday work. Japanese support is one, printing another, iTunes has also been named, I'd like to add Indesign, for which there is no real replacement under Linux. But what I like best is the extremely tight integration of software under Mac OS X. iTunes now syncs music, photos, address book and calender simultaneously on an iPod - this involves four applications under OS X.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Gentoo on my Powerbook 12" G4

There are three reasons for me, to let OS X a bit of space on my Powerbook

1. missing Nvidia Drivers for 3D Acceleration
2. missing Airport Driver
3. not all software for linux-ppc-architecture available and usable (pcsx, crossover-office, ...)



thats why i used to let my OS X online :-)
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run it on two b&w g3's b/c I just want stripped down console only boxes to run web or ftp or dev work.

I have a 12" powerbook and a mini i use for my desktop machines, but I like clean console for all my server and dev stuff.
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Massimo B.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fact I never use the OSX I still have on my 20GB. But for the fact I should need the iBook for a presentation I need VGA-Out.
There are even things that are not working with Linux: VGAout, TVout, Modem,..uh thats all.
Concerning VGAout and Modem I read some rumours in IRC that it should be possible.

Concerning OSX: It's the same as with Windows. For getting software, you have to browse some no standard web pages, looking for a download button, just to get some basics such as IRC, IM, videoplayer,. and lot's more. That is not comfortable at all (as my friend claims), and uninstalling is always different. Gentoo just connects with 100MBit to the local university ftp. Linux is like talking with you computer.
And when it comes to me, ok, I want to have control over every device, to control the fan, the suspend behaviours,..It's not that I do that the whole day, but I know what I want. And Linux forum is really talking about computers, not about apple synonyms or shady updates.
Maybe osx looks better than windows looks better than linux? What does linux look like? Mine looks as I want to.
And in detail: I don't like panther's window manager. You can't really maximize, vertically, make sticky, hide the frames. And the filebrowser is even worse then Windows Explorer.
Look at the newest KDE with real transparency, it's marvelous, but still too much for my iBook. But every emerge it becomes better.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that's a lot of answers... thanks

I was just wondering whether you think like me... I am a Stallman-thing fan and I agree with his way of thinking about free software etc etc... I've always said that linux is the only OS one should employ but then there are this kind of issues you've already mentioned... fan, wireless, suspend to X etc etc

I have a fujitsu siemens centrino which I bought because I had been told it's extremely quiet... I installed gentoo on it (took about a couple of days) and I was left with a laptop whose fan was working almost all time. I spent A LOT of time trying to solve this problem, you can believe me... and I somehow reduced it but still the fan is coming on too often for my taste. Another problem I have is the wlan card... It only worked with the 2.6.13 kernel and still the connection is breaking each X minutes, which is quite annoying if you're down/uploading something (even if I use rsync for that and it can resume).

And then I learnt I could choose a laptop paid by my home institute... I spent a lot of time thinking about that and visited a lot of forums asking something like "what's the quietest and lightest laptop you know? Money doesn't matter" (to use with linux only) And you'll not believe it but I didn't get a clear answer. Some people claimed this ibm thinkpad is fine blablabla but an external screen has the wrong resolution. Others recommended me another brand but it was noisy according to a third party and so on and so forth...

And then the powerbook came on: Somebody showed me it and it was NICE: *nix (a derivative of freeBSD), a solid core, expose, suspend to X, no fan noise (almost), port (linux software) etc etc

And so my troubles started... using a closed system (even though the kernel is free and open source, darwin -apple is not stupid approaching to the open community-) is just against all my principles... on the other hand EVERYTHING is working really and literally "out of the box" and you can even install the gnome-terminal on it if you don't fancy the default terminal (I'm working all time with a terminal), which I think doesn't offer things like tabbed sessions etc.

So... what to do? I would really love to install linux on it and show that you don't need to pay for a hidden software to work without problems BUT, as a matter of fact, extreme airport, suspend to X etc etc is -almost- not working. I would really love to show to that people who are so proud of owing a wonderful and flashy mac that I deleted the OSx and installed linux to work with but, on the other hand, I do not have any time at all! I cannot afford to expend more than, say, two weekends on this because I have a lot of work and I have a son, and I feel like a b4stard "playing" with my mac trying to install linux on it only to show people that the world can be different and see that my child is bored and looking at me with asking eyes "will you play with me??" I don't want to expend such a priceless time with a XXXX laptop, I prefer to play with him... it's much more fun

That's why I asked all of you... Are you in such a kind of situation? Or are you revoted, radical open source users who wouldn't ever employ something closed like OSx?

I know that there's not a clear answer to this and there's no need for it either, but I just wanted to vomit this out of me...

Pau
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:33 pm    Post subject: to experiment & explore & see how it works Reply with quote

I actualy will run linux on recycled/given PowerMac 4400/2oo to actualy explore that machine & experiment a bit in one linux workshop we have here in Zagreb at net culture club "mama" http://tamtam.mi2.hr/razmjenavjestina/.
It allready have OS 8.1 installed, but I"m planning to put 8.4 GB hard for both if possible. I"m thinking of buying new PowerBook and will run X.4, Linux and BeOS(Zeta) on it. Even on AmigaONE I would never limit myself to one solution, but rather have choices (AmigaOS 4.0, LinuxPPC, Free/NetBSD, BeOS, MorphOS(PegasosPPC).
Alternative is a state of mind.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am an open source supporter/fan, and I also have a bunch of PPC machines running Gentoo at home (my wife's and my machine) and at school (a G5 doing some server and development duties). I have these PPC machines because I really like the PPC architecture. I use Linux on all of these because of various reasons, including
  • I find OS X slow, in fact much slower than Linux. This is especially manifested in multi-threaded applications.
  • I am much more confortable with Linux administration and use. I do not have time to learn new operating systems if I can prevent it, and I do so by just running the OS I am already comfortable with.
  • I hate booting, so in a dual-boot environment one operating system is virtually never used.
  • My hardware is slightly older and is fully supported in Linux. I used to have to wait for the things to work (especially on my laptop) but this is a thing of the past by now.

Addd to this my preference for open source and this is why I have rarely used OS X. I am not however a zealot, so the above reasons should also be considered as part of my decision. In all, for me PPC is really fun and also comfortable; Linux is really fun and also comfortable. So my question would be rather why swicth, not why I am running what I am running.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pau wrote:
That's why I asked all of you... Are you in such a kind of situation?
Of course, Airport is an important question. Think about getting the latest G3 with Airport 1. I mean what about 800Mhz G3 with 640MB, you can work with that.
Concerning hardware I never take the newest stuff lokking at the prices. Concering linux I want the newest shit :) because it's mostly faster/better.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Powerbook is the first MAC I've owned. I purhcased it becuase I was curious about the OS. I'm dissapointed with Apple that they have taken something from the "free" BSD community and not given anything back! Unless I'm mistaken or someone can enlighten perhaps they have given back something that has benefited such a "free" open source community.

I also choose the Powerbook 12" cause it is small, the OSX is stable for the use I had in mind, wifi and dvd etc but with the option also of being able to utilise the power of Linux.

It does piss me off about some of the hardware, especially in respect of Broadcom not releasing device spescs. I also own other laptops/devices based on Broadcom chipsets. Personally I think this is grave short sightedness on behalf of these manufacturers, perhaps someday this will be addressed, one day they will be at a commercial dissadvantage, I'm sure of it.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

echo6 wrote:
I'm dissapointed with Apple that they have taken something from the "free" BSD community and not given anything back! Unless I'm mistaken or someone can enlighten perhaps they have given back something that has benefited such a "free" open source community.

Might want to take a look at OpenDarwin.org. Darwin, the core of OS X, has an open CVS repository. OpenDarwin is developed directly from the same source code that goes into OS X. Check out the site for all the details.

Apple most definitely gives back, even if it's under the Apple version of a free software license.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nightmorph wrote:
Might want to take a look at OpenDarwin.org
Ah!..good point, perhaps I should look closer at this Open Darwin before shooting my mouth off!!

:oops:
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e-ipi
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha. My daughter slams the lid of the computer down when she wants me to read a story or to play with her.

I share your free software zealotry. That's why I really didn't want a Mac or the machine I got (12" pb6,8), which I knew I would have problems with. (But not as many as expected). Unfortunately, given the constraints of the local retail market and my desires, we were stuck with each other. OS X is a unix, I can live with it, I thought. I did for a few months, but then I got annoyed with Emacs.app freezing up on me, so I installed linux. Emacs works better. Other things are easier on linux, because that's what I'm used to. I do miss suspend functionality (I can't get kernels >= 2.6.12 to boot so nothing works) and wireless, so I use linux at home and Mac on the road.

I know I would have been happier with a Thinkpad X-whatever, but I had to compromise or stick to pen and paper. It sounds like you have more options but the same demands on your time. For that reason, I'd recommend something with more out-of-the-box linux compatibility.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, apple is not a fairy godmother, you know? :evil:

The Darwin thing is nice but it's just a trap door with something behind it...

Read this

http://www.figuiere.net/hub/blog/?m=200410#14

Of course, strongly discouraged means "fired out"
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I develop Perl-Gtk2 apps, and it's a major PITA to do this under OS-X. You have to get X going, then somehow compile Gtk2, then the Perl bindings, and by the time you've gotten that far, X mysteriously stops working, and you've got nothing to show for all your work.

Apple's marketing department tells you that you've got unix underneath all the glitter, but that's not really true. You've got a gutted, castrated shadow of unix hiding underneath the glitter. It's great for surfing the net or copying music onto your ipod, but for serious development, you need Linux. I found it easier to get a Perl-Gtk2 development environment running under Windows 2000 than under OS-X - and I've been using Linux for 8 years, so I like to think I know what I'm doing by now.

Linux also has far superior software, and much more choice ( I don't have to tell you about the wonders of portage ) - with the only exception being idvd ... which is also the only reason I have OS-X still on my powerbook. If you've got a digital video, haveing idvd really makes a difference.

Oh yeah. And Enlightenment-0.17 kicks OS-X's arse. I can't stand OS-X's window manager and it's focus policy, etc. You can't alt-drag to move windows around, for example. WTF? And you can't middle-click to paste! See my above comment re: OS-X being castrated.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I can't stand OS-X's window manager and it's focus policy, etc. You can't alt-drag to move windows around, for example. WTF? And you can't middle-click to paste! See my above comment re: OS-X being castrated.


These are bad news for me... I didn't know that. I mostly work all the time with a terminal. Isn't it possible to install, say, the gnome terminal on the osx? You mean that the osx policy prevails over it?

Then I'm going to have to go for the linux thing on my powerbook... when I get it (in about three weeks)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Isn't it possible to install, say, the gnome terminal on the osx? You mean that the osx policy prevails over it?


You can install gnome terminal ... or at least you can try. I did have gnome kinda running in OS-X, but it was pathetically slow, and many things were not working. You can use fink or darwin ports to install open-source apps, much like portage. The difference is that portage works beautifully and gives you a nicely optimised app that works. For example, I *finally* got nautilus working, but I could never get any icons to work ... it was like I was running nautilus on another desktop ( say E17 ) without running gnome-settings-daemon - everything that should have had an icon instead had a little red X in place of the icon. Looked like barf. This really leads back to one of my pet hates of Apple. Why did they have to castrate their graphics server so that it no longer ran X apps? Why did they have to make it so hard to run OS apps? There was no need to do that, and it means that people have to run an additional graphics server on top of OS-X's. Apple like trumpeting the fact that they make extensive use of open-source software, but it's only when this suits their purposes. When they're after vendor lock-in ( desktop ), you'll find it quite hard to run open-source apps - it's possible, but you have to jump through hoops. It's not like Apple had to go out of their way to produce something that was compatible with OS. As they say, they started with an OS base, including an X Server, and removed the parts that they didn't want people to have.

Examples of where Apple have intentionally omitted OS apps to achieve vendor lock-in:

- no X ( yeah you can install X on top of OS-X, but it sucks, and it's only because so many people kept asking for it )
- no GTK+ / QT
- no transcode / ffmpeg / mencoder
- no ogg support

Take iMovie. You would think that with the Apple realising the wonders of open-source software, they would include some open-source video encoders, right? Don't think so, buddy. You can encode to quicktime. If you want divx, you have to buy a plugin. If you want mpeg, you have to buy a plugin. You can install ffmpeg yourself, but it doesn't get integrated into iMovie. You can't, for example, open a config dialog and say "use *this* custom command to encode, please". You have to encode to quicktime, and then exit iMovie and fire up your open-source encoder and re-encode to divx / xvid / whatever. And then, of course, when you want to burn to a dvd, iDVD doesn't support anything other than ... quicktime! Jesus!

Maybe it's too much work for Apple to support GTK+ / QT / encoders / etc? If 100s of distros such as Gentoo, Fedora, Debian, etc can do it, then Apple can do it. They just don't want to.

Anyway, back to answering your questions ...

Yes, you can install gnome-terminal, BUT, this will not give you either middle-click-to-paste, which is a function of the X Server ( which doesn't work, even if you're running X on top of OS-X ... from memory, anyway ), and it also doesn't give you alt-drag to move windows, which is a function of the window manager. Sad but true. You'll most likely want to use OS-X's terminal app, because it's relatively fast, doesn't require a 2nd graphics server, and supports transparency. You'll have to deal with the rest ... until you throw in the towel and install Gentoo, that is :) When you do, you'll find that Gentoo is far more configurable, far more comfortable, doesn't get in the way of what you're doing, and does things much faster than OS-X.

The only thing OS-X used to have over Linux was it's app launcher. But now there are a plethora of OS-X-like app launchers, such as Engage from E17. I still like iDVD though. But to be honest, the only reason I keep OS-X on here is in case I want to play Warcraft III / UT2004 against friends, and also I need OS-X to run some tax & related software ( I do some contract work - Perl-Gtk2 development work ). I did download a beta version of Komodo for OS-X when they announced it, but before I actually got around to installing it, I discovered Eclipse and the Perl plugin, EPIC. I've never even fired up Komodo in OS-X yet! But to be brutally honest, the most common reason I fire up OS-X is to show off to people that I can run OS-X inside Linux, via Mac-On-Linux. That's impressive...
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

e-ipi,

The thing you mentiond about printing on linux. You might have to try to change the ghostscript you're using... i think there are 3 different versions: gnu, gpl, and another one. I changed that too when things didn't look great with one of them. Can't tell you which one was the good one though, but i'd say you should try to change it. (best to make a package from the one you have currently installed, so that you can easily reinstall the old one in case it's not getting better)


VanDan,

You have links/references that Quartz and Quartz extreme is based on some sort of Xserver? I seriously doubt that the native graphical interface in MacOSX is based on software which included X capabilities. But that's just my guess, i don't know the origins of quartz.
I also doubt about your arguments that Apple intentionally omits OS apps to achieve vendor lock-in. Apple wants to give the user an easy to use computer, with a consistent interface. Why should they care about including X, GTK, transcode, ffmpeg, mencoder, and so on? Their (main) target audience does not care about that. The target audience wants a nice, consistent desktop which lets them do their stuff with ease. GTK and X apps just don't "fit in" on a Mac system. They are and will probably stay 2nd class citizens on a Mac. Indeed, "it's not like Apple had to go out of their way to produce something that was compatible with OS".... but why would you expect them to do that in the first place?
But coming back to your arguments:
* X MacOSX Tiger definitely does come with an X server, and it works just fine. You can copy-paste between X apps with select and double-click. You can copy-paste between X and native Mac by using the X menu and selecting copy. It's not very handy, but as i said, X is a second class citizen. In addition to the X server from Apple, you can also find an xorg server in fink, if i'm not mistaken. The X server from Apple is not installed by default, but is available on the install dvd.
* QT There is a native QT port, for example the open source "Psi" uses this.
* GTK Only available through the X server afaik.
* no ogg support? well... no ogg support in iTunes, allthough solutions for this are available. Indeed annoying.
* no transcode/ffmpeg/mencoder in iMovie... well, of course they want you to use their encoder...
As for middle-click-to-paste in gnome-terminal.. it will work between X applications. And nope, you can not use Alt-drag to move windows... allthough you can do that with X windows when you run for example xfwm as window manager instead of the Apple supplied window manager.
Another comment is that open-source is not limited to X, GTK or QT. There are also excellent open source native mac applications available. I use for example Adium, which is a really nice im-client based on libgaim. I also use Shiira, which is a webbrowser based on Webkit, but faster and with a number of interesting features. I also use Fugu and Cyberduck. Oh.. and also Growl which is a really nice "notification system". Those are all open source native mac applications and from very high quality. After using those, you wish that there was something like Growl on linux, or small things like Adium which logs you out when you put your laptop to sleep...


Pau,

Before, i had a iBook G3 800Mhz 640Mb RAM. That was the *perfect* linux laptop. It may have taken some time before i got everything working, but all hardware was supported perfectly, including 3d, sleep, wireless,... I had macosx jaguar on the laptop but i never used it. At start i installed it because i wanted to have some experience with macosx... in the end, i was used to linux and knew how to do things with linux like installing an nfs server and stuff like that. So, in the end i just kept using linux. Only problem was that the laptop had a problem with its logic board, and it had to go in for repair several times.
So, now i have an iBook G4 1.33Ghz 512Mb RAM and since (a) i'm rather busy lately and (b) this laptop's hardware is not fully supported on linux... i didn't want to waste time messing around to get my system going with linux. So i've been using Mac OSX Tiger for the last 2 months. I did install the X server and darwinports to be able to install GNU emacs on X and tetex and some other stuffs like gv and so on. Also, i really can not live without virtual desktops, so i'm using VirtualDesktopPro for that now. During the time i've been using Tiger, i've start to know OSX better, and there's several things i like about it, but also a whole number of things that i don't like.
Probably the most important thing i like is the ease of use. No more messing around. I don't know why, but lately i'm more in the "i just want it to work" kind of mentality on linux. I've for example also installed Ubuntu on a machine just for this reason. Messing around with things on linux is great... it's fun.. it's challenging and it gives a sense of accomplishment when you get something working exactly the way you want it. Yeah, you /can/ make things the way you want them. On the other hand, you probably get things done on Mac OSX a lot faster, without messing around, which leaves you more time for other things... This is especially the case when your hardware is not (yet) fully supported. Then it can be frustrating that you can not get something to work and that it just makes you waste time. Another thing is Flash and java support. I don't like those things on websites, but sometimes you need it to view a website. Of course, i also like the BSD basis that Mac OSX has..
The things i don't like about OSX... probably the Mac mentality of Applications instead of windows... the fact that i don't have virtual desktops... the fact that everything X is just second class... the fact that i can't (easily) run my favorite linux applications... the fact that OSX feels a lot slower than linux.
I don't know whether i'll be installing linux on this laptop in the future... i'd like the ease of use (easy configuration, stupid thing like automatically detecting whether an ethernet cable is connected and configuring the network interface, stupid thing like detecting wireless networks and automatically connecting) and support (full hardware support, software support for things like flash and java) from macosx out of the box on linux.

Note.. i do know about "free" software, and i do share the feeling. I also prefer an "open" system with "open" technology, with access to the sources. When you start to think about closed source systems, DRM and big companies like Microsoft and Apple.. it just gets scary what they can force upon their users. Still, i do understand that people need to make a living with software, and i'm definitely willing to pay software developers for decent software (even if that software is "closed"). Maybe/probably because i'll be working in the same area.
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