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soujirou
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when playing video in macos it buffers -_-
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why I installed Gentoo Linux?

I was having some issue with Debian GNU/Linux and I was thinking about switching OS eventually. Why Gentoo? One reason is that Gentoo was one of the first OS to have a LiveCD for PowerPC so I gave it a try. Then I installed it.

Why I kept OS X?

I played with it early and I was using it as a test platform. I initially allocated half the space early. Then it went down to 6GB or so. I think I recently broke its installation and I will probably not reinstalled it. Video mirroring is not supported on my hardware (iBook G3) in Linux so I might have to reinstall it eventually if I have to give presentation -- but I don't see any presentation in the distant future. For the wireless, I have the non-extreme on that machine. I would actually not buy an Airport Extreme computer or others that don't have wireless support... Using Mol might be a temp solution... but there have been no wireless drivers for a long time now -- like 3-4 years...


NB: OS X does not supported the correct French Canadian keyboard (with dead keys) only the weird French Canadian keyboard. So, I don't think it has good local supports from my point of view. I actually bought one with an English keyboard and remapped the numpad ENTER to AltGr...

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:35 pm    Post subject: Why? Reply with quote

Because macosx is not free software. (Free as in freedom, I don't drink beer).
And I think GNU\Linux is more resource friendly, more flexable and suites my needs and desires better.

OSX is all eye candy and complexity, to much destraction for me anyway.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Ruben

Your post is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the time

Quote:
So, now i have an iBook G4 1.33Ghz 512Mb RAM and since (a) i'm rather busy lately and (b) this laptop's hardware is not fully supported on linux... i didn't want to waste time messing around to get my system going with linux. So i've been using Mac OSX Tiger for the last 2 months. I did install the X server and darwinports to be able to install GNU emacs on X and tetex and some other stuffs like gv and so on.


This are good news. I am employing gv and tetex all the time, and other stuff... I hope I can get everything to work without much trouble.
Quote:

Also, i really can not live without virtual desktops, so i'm using VirtualDesktopPro for that now. During the time i've been using Tiger, i've start to know OSX better, and there's several things i like about it, but also a whole number of things that i don't like.


I didn't know about this VirtualDesktopPro. Another thing I don't understand is how Tiger works without an X server... How is it possible, if it's based on freeBSD? Or is this a too stupid question?


Quote:
Probably the most important thing i like is the ease of use. No more messing around. I don't know why, but lately i'm more in the "i just want it to work" kind of mentality on linux. I've for example also installed Ubuntu on a machine just for this reason. Messing around with things on linux is great... it's fun.. it's challenging and it gives a sense of accomplishment when you get something working exactly the way you want it. Yeah, you /can/ make things the way you want them. On the other hand, you probably get things done on Mac OSX a lot faster, without messing around, which leaves you more time for other things... This is especially the case when your hardware is not (yet) fully supported. Then it can be frustrating that you can not get something to work and that it just makes you waste time.


Again... I feel much better after having read these lines... It's nice to see there are other people with the same problems/solutions and opinions...
Quote:

... the fact that OSX feels a lot slower than linux.


What do you mean with this? Does it take for instance much longer for gv to be started than under linux?

Quote:
I don't know whether i'll be installing linux on this laptop in the future... i'd like the ease of use (easy configuration, stupid thing like automatically detecting whether an ethernet cable is connected and configuring the network interface, stupid thing like detecting wireless networks and automatically connecting) and support (full hardware support, software support for things like flash and java) from macosx out of the box on linux.


I don't know either. I am just waiting for the silly administrative machine to get my powerbook. I will give MacOSX a chance... maybe about a couple of weeks and if I feel I am paying too much for just getting the "candy eye" I'll drop it and install an easy linux distro, like Ubuntu. I don't want to spend DAYS or WEEKS configuring my laptop. I have more important things in life, like a child... I don't care about airport extreme... I've employed wireless about two times in my life. I can leave also a 10 GB partition there for Tiger, since I ordered a 100GB powerbook 12"... There is room for both things...
Quote:

Note.. i do know about "free" software, and i do share the feeling. I also prefer an "open" system with "open" technology, with access to the sources. When you start to think about closed source systems, DRM and big companies like Microsoft and Apple.. it just gets scary what they can force upon their users.


Yes... I share the same opinion. I've been all my life an iron defender of open source, but I will not steal a single hour of play/fun to my son and employ it with a boring kernel...
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ruben
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pau wrote:
This are good news. I am employing gv and tetex all the time, and other stuff... I hope I can get everything to work without much trouble.

I personally used Darwinports and didn't have any trouble with it, but Fink has a bigger repository and has binary packages. In darwinports, you just have to type a command like "port install tetex" and it will download, compile and install tetex and all it's dependencies.
pau wrote:
I didn't know about this VirtualDesktopPro. Another thing I don't understand is how Tiger works without an X server... How is it possible, if it's based on freeBSD? Or is this a too stupid question?

VirtualDesktopPro is commercial, but "DesktopManager" is an open source program which also provides virtual desktops. Mac OS X uses Quartz (Extreme) as the primary means to display something on the screen. Native programs are shown on screen using Quartz (see it as "instead of an X server"). But Apple includes an X server (on the install dvd), which allows you to run applications made for X (for example GTK applications), or run X applications remotely (visualizing applications which are running on a linux machine for example).
Quote:
Quote:
... the fact that OSX feels a lot slower than linux.

What do you mean with this? Does it take for instance much longer for gv to be started than under linux?

No, actually what i said is probably a little exaggerated: it's not about the program startup time, or the program running time, it's more like the system reacts a little slower when you interact with it. It might be more of a feeling than anything else though. What i have noticed however, is that Tiger *eats* ram... when i work (couple of xterms open, a compile, browser, email client, gv, emacs, adium for im, maybe Dashboard), it will hit swap. My iBook has 512Mb ram, and when i have all those things running, i'll have in the range of 300-400Mb swap in use, which you notice when you switch applications. At my work, at least 2 other people are running Tiger on their powerbook, and both of them ordered 1Gig extra to up the ram to 1.5Gig because it seems needed to run Tiger smoothly.
Quote:
I don't know either. I am just waiting for the silly administrative machine to get my powerbook. I will give MacOSX a chance... maybe about a couple of weeks and if I feel I am paying too much for just getting the "candy eye" I'll drop it and install an easy linux distro, like Ubuntu. I don't want to spend DAYS or WEEKS configuring my laptop. I have more important things in life, like a child... I don't care about airport extreme... I've employed wireless about two times in my life. I can leave also a 10 GB partition there for Tiger, since I ordered a 100GB powerbook 12"... There is room for both things...

Well... I'd also spend time with my child instead of messing with the computer. I think it's a good idea to give MacOSX a chance, in the end if you don't like it, you can always install linux and by that time, the support in the kernel will probably be better.
Quote:
Yes... I share the same opinion. I've been all my life an iron defender of open source, but I will not steal a single hour of play/fun to my son and employ it with a boring kernel...
And i think you're right, and i guess your son will agree too :P
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electroarts
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do a lot of soundwork on my 15" G4 Powerbook using such apps as:

*Pure Data
*JACK Audio Connection Kit
*Qjackctl
*Jack-Rack
*Jack Timemachine
*JackEQ
*LADSPA plugins (MCP, REV, BLOP, CAPS, CMT, SWH, TAP)
*Jamin
*Ardour
*Freqtweak
*Sooperlooper
*Rezound
*Supercollider3
*Asynth
*AMS
*DSSI
*Whysynth
...etc etc

I still feel my Gentoo PPC installation is a bit shakey, but I've already spent more than a week tuning it up---and I've got performances to do, dammit! Several of my usual apps (PD, SooperLooper, JackOSX, Ardour) have DMG installers for OSX that more or less work, so I though just to migrate my whole workflow over. But after spending three days in Gentoo/Darwinports/Fink/OSX hell failing to get the other missing pieces of the puzzle in place (notably most LADSPA plugins, Rezound, Jack-Rack and Jamin), I decided it was better to stick with Linux for those. Looking for non-free/commercial alternatives for these apps was distasteful at best, and extremely expensive at worst. I really resent the way that sound software companies try to rip you off every step of the way with closed formats, dongles and making themselves completely incompatible with other hardware and software (see ProTools as a good example... an "industry standard" multitrack program that only runs with Digidesign/M-Audio hardware!)

For me, the biggest part missing besides Airport Extreme is the accelerated graphics. I need all the CPU I can get for audio processing, so it's annoying that X takes more than it needs to render waveforms visually, etc etc. I've tried the tutorial for the open source r300 drivers, and that was another three days running around the tree for nothing unfortunately.

Why keep OSX? Airport Extreme, mostly. I'm still waiting for MOL to support Tiger so I can at least get the WLAN stuff worked out. And SuperCollider3, which has a proper GUI on OSX. Also if I want to use some fancy commercial audio app like Ableton Live--which I rarely do, actually, but why limit yourself? ;-) Everything else I'm used to using from the Linux world runs better on Linux. Go figure!

Last reason to keep OSX is a bit circular. I formatted my /home partition HFS+ so I could access it from both systems. But if Linux crashes (say, from a failed restart after suspend-to-RAM or some other buggy thing about PPC), then Linux will only remount the drive read-only. This means I need to boot OSX long enough for it to correct the disk errors, then I can reboot back to Linux. A problem which creates and fixes itself... Someday I hope that the little bumps in PPC will get smoothed out and I'll start trusting it a bit more.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Degustibus non est diputandum :lol:
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

electroarts: Just a FYI, the ~ppc version of MOL has supported Tiger for quite some time now. In the pre3 version it also supports Tiger acceleration.

As for the hfs+ fsck issue, yeah, there's an open bug on it: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46342

I just haven't had time to fix the bugs in my port. :p
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
why are you installing gentoo on Mac?
Because I can?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why I installed Gentoo Linux?

soooo... I work with Gentoo since Version 2004.2 on PC-Architecture. I love Gentoo, so why not on Mac. First of all I got my PowerMac Dual G5 @ 2.7GHz tomorrow. The first thing I do is installing Gentoo on this machine.

Why I want to keep OSX?

It is on this Machine. Wheather I work with it. that will be shown. But I think it will be like on my PC's. No Windows, so no OSX, so only Gentoo. :wink:
I love the edge existence! :P

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Sewulba: Don't eat at the chinese restaurant close to the Bismarckplatz in the side of the Kopfbrücke, it's horrible!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do it because I can.. I like tweaking and it's fun =)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because I can :)

And also because I use Linux on my home and work PC's. That way I have the same GUI and the same apps on all three computers and can easily transfer data between them.

Why Gentoo? Because it's one of the few distributions that (at the time of buying my PowerBook) run on x86 and ppc.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:57 pm    Post subject: Gentoo vs OS X Reply with quote

I've just switched my work Thinkpad from XP to Gentoo, and frankly I'm not sure it was an overall win. I've certainly had fun setting everything up, but package stability is a noticeable issue. Audio doesn't seem to be buffered particularly well, Evolution crashes on a regular basis, the system (or KDE...either way I have to hard reset) freezes a couple times per week, and generally the machine feels like an extremely well-polished laboratory project rather than a solid, production-class workhorse.

I would only install Gentoo on Apple PPC hardware under one of two circumstances:
1) old machine to be used in some server capacity
2) the joy of experimentation

For a lot of what I do in OS X (audio), there is no comparable software available for Linux. For the rest of what I do on OS X (wireless, bluetooth, web browsing, ssh, scp, postgres/jdbc, eclipse, latex), I just want everything to work as expected, all the time, and I don't really care about whether I'm getting "ideal performance" out of the hardware.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: Gentoo vs OS X Reply with quote

feralchimp wrote:
I've just switched my work Thinkpad from XP to Gentoo, and frankly I'm not sure it was an overall win. I've certainly had fun setting everything up, but package stability is a noticeable issue. Audio doesn't seem to be buffered particularly well, Evolution crashes on a regular basis, the system (or KDE...either way I have to hard reset) freezes a couple times per week, and generally the machine feels like an extremely well-polished laboratory project rather than a solid, production-class workhorse.

I would only install Gentoo on Apple PPC hardware under one of two circumstances:
1) old machine to be used in some server capacity
2) the joy of experimentation


I miss my dead thinkpad, too, but it hasn't been THAT bad for me. Linux does not support my machine that well and that makes the ongoing job of trying to get everything to work a little frustrating. However, it does stay up once it gets going. Things are a little different here, because I tend toward UI & aesthetic minimalism, i.e., no KDE or gnome or anything like that, and because my work on the machine involves no more than watching dvds, writing latex files, and sending them. It's fine for that -- except for the airport extreme problem.

My feeling is that the Gentoo primarily offers control over an up-to-date system with a well thought-out and fairly easy to use tools. Gentoo is pretty solid for me, but there are always things you have to sacrifice. If rock solid stability is what you're after, maybe some other distribution would be better. Debian stable is pretty conservative and Slackintosh is just a ppc recompile of Slackware.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is a lot of person using mol(mac on linux)
most of them for compatibility reason such as:
web browsing:
->java
->flash
video:
->no w32codecs
->browser integration

but there are all avaliable under linux
java->there are slower but open-source java
flash->there are open-source alternative
w32codecs->most of theses codecs are avaliable in gpl as stand-alone codecs or in vlc(video lan)
there are also browser integrations

so...Why not making an howto in gentoo-linux wiki website

by the way the G4 cpu is bi-endian (=>it can od little endian)
so is it possible to run linux in little endian mode
and is it possible to run darwine under linux ppc little-endian?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why i keep OXS
1) AIrport
2) Flash
3) 32wincodec


Why i use gentoo on ppc arch?
1) FREE
1) <BR>Nothing better to do</BR> believe that we can tweak better than macosX team crew
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm using gentoo on ppc because my mac is too old to upgrade with os x, and i don't feel like shelling out the money. so i stick with os 9 and get left behind software wise. i decided to try out gentoo and its worked out pretty well so far.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pau wrote:
@Sewulba: Don't eat at the chinese restaurant close to the Bismarckplatz in the side of the Kopfbrücke, it's horrible!


!!!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:36 pm    Post subject: How about why I DON'T use Gentoo? Reply with quote

Personally, I use OS X on my Powerbook - I had gentoo installed/reinstalled like 4-5 times, and always ended up uninstalling it, as I need a system that I can rely on "somebody else" to fix. I.E. - if an OS upgrade kills my machine, Apple will fix it.

The look/feel has nothing to do with it - I used to run an X server under OSX exclusively, and run Windowmaker full-screen. It wasn't that much different than being on a linux box. Oh... except for the directory structure was a little different. And I could hide the X server and be back in OS X.

Also - no video-out support in linux, and with OS X most stuff "just works" - which is what I am looking for on my laptop.

My servers/desktops are a totally different story, though.... I will ONLY run gentoo on my server/desktop boxes, because it's organizational structure is "Easy for me to understand", so when errors DO occur, it's really quick for me to fix 'em. And I usually put em' behind a NetBSD firewall...

Uh oh-- I said the *BSD word in a linux forum!!! 8O
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having not used OS X much, could somebody tell why some people swear by it, especially version 10 and say that it's far better than anything else?

Other people are are Linux, but probably only because it's GPL (Thanks again Richard) - sure I love GPL stuff cos it's kinda politics to support it.

I don't get it, what's all the fuss, either you want prettier OS X which comes working so you use it, or you want rough round the edges but free so you're in control?

Also, somebody at work has told me that OS X has great features? Anybody verify this? (I'm prepared that OS X might be at a disadvantage in this forum).
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MacOSX is one of the best operating systems I've ever seen. It looks good, it's usability is grrreat - simple, but very powerful, with some very good ideas like the dock (best. feature. ever.). Besides the look & feel (and I'm not talking about eye-candy), it's UNIX-based, so it has all the advantages of a stable and already proven technology.

But I don't use it because it's not Free. And i've already paid for it when I bought my iBook. :D
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, that's what some other people say too.

Also, Linux Format admitted to using Macs to do all their publishing (talk about contraversial) but they said they were unstable and crashed often. guy at work thinks it was cos they were using 9s which aren't good apparently...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simple : Linux is the best OS for developpement (Python, C...) and portage is the best packages manager, no way..

Maybe OS-X is a BSD like, but the X11 emulation sux, the Konsole sux, Darwin sux, Panther is very greedy for a poor 256Mo/G3/500/ati Rage/10Mo.

I hate the directory structure, I wast my time to search and destroy the patch downloaded by the updater.

Apple/ Steve jobs has chosen the BSD architecture because the BSD-licence allows him to make money with embedded open-source where GPL do not.
They sell CUPS, X, BSD, etc.. ffs !!!!!!

XFCE4 rocks, urxvt rox, Gentoo PPC rocks, and my ibook is really sexy.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@humbletech99:
There is a world of difference between OS9 en OSX, these are in fact two completely different operating systems, consider it like the same kind of difference between respectively DOS and Linux for example.

I consider Mac OS X a very nice operating system. But personally, after using it for a couple of months, i found out it's not really for me. Linux (or maybe even a BSD) with a typical free software setup is more my thing. But several people really love Mac OS X, and that is both 'normal' people (excuse the expression :P) and programmers. It's good for having a no-hassle computer, where you can focus on getting stuff done instead of getting your system to work. That's what I hear from osx-users. They also think that a lot of the decisions Apple has made in OS X are in fact not that bad at all, and help those people to be more organised. In addition, OSX comes with a number of nice applications. And I think OSX is very user-friendly and a nice OS for people who are not that handy with computers. However, I found that in my case, it's totally not compatible with my way of working. And like I said before, X is a second class citizen in OSX, and in the end i just installed Linux on my iBook. I did try OSX because linux support for my ibook was not good when I got it and also because it's always good to have a bit of experience with another OS (which gives you the ability to give an informed opinion about it).

@Frelon:
First off, it's actually perfectly legal to ask money for giving someone a GPL application. I put Emacs on a nice DVD with a cute GNU on the front for you and I ask you money for that... nothing wrong with it.
Second, they don't ask money for Cups, BSD, X... you want those? You can download them for free at http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/.
Third, in the way you see it, Steve Jobs is actually also charging you for a (several) GPL application(s): if you've used OSX, you probably have noticed that it includes gcc, which is actually one of the projects started by RMS himself. As far as I know, Apple made improvements on the code generator for ppc64 in gcc and gave those improvements back too the gcc project, like they should (and you can always download the source of their gcc version from the aforementioned site).
Everyone has the right to hate or love Apple, but at least if you're commenting on OSX, then base your comments on something.
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