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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:53 am    Post subject: gwn of today makes me angry (11/14) Reply with quote

Hi,

so, the reason stage1/2 is 'deprecated' are stupid asses (like the animal) are too stupid to follow some simple instructions.

IMHO this is totally wrong!

If someone is to dumb to follow the instructions s/he should not use gentoo at all, because 'it' will be too daft to use gentoo in a proper way too.

Instead, people who are clearly retarded should get a nice email, telling them, that they should use ubuntu or mandrake or suse or something else.

What is the next step? Making gentoo binary-only, because some idiots are using silly use/cflags?

Why has everything adapted to the lowest denominator?

I say, screw this guys and let them out in the rain, instead of hindering the people that are smart enough to READ and FOLLOW simple instructions!

And the instructions are simple - if someone is not able to follow them, it is a clear sign, that s/he is not ready for using a computer at all or braindead. Do we really want those?

Do we really want more aol-lusers, who hear 'cflags' and 'useflags' and start to drool, even if they do not know, what this flags are and what they are doing?

Once again, gentoo has taken the wrong step. Like strip-flags and filter-flags for helping --ffast-math users. This guys deserve to suffer - but no, everything has to be done, to make it comfortable for the dumb part of the population.

Thank you very much.
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pitcrawler
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's not as bad as it sounds. The stage 1 and 2 methods are apparently still in the FAQ, but the handbook now recommends a stage 3 then optional system recompile afterwards. This would result in a machine which is the equivalent of a stage 1 install. If you're a newbie then this encourages you to take the easiest option first, instead of going for stage 1, breaking stuff, posting silly threads on the forums then giving up Gentoo if they get stuck.
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richk449
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh? They changed the instructions to start with a stage 3, since it is easier. They didn't get rid of stage 1 and 2. You can still spend days installing it, and be an uber-hacker. What exactly are you upset about? That you will lose street cred?
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pitcrawler
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
Huh? They changed the instructions to start with a stage 3, since it is easier. They didn't get rid of stage 1 and 2. You can still spend days installing it, and be an uber-hacker. What exactly are you upset about? That you will lose street cred?
Maybe he's scared that Gentooists will get labelled as AOLers for having such easy install instructions :P
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richk449
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pitcrawler wrote:
richk449 wrote:
Huh? They changed the instructions to start with a stage 3, since it is easier. They didn't get rid of stage 1 and 2. You can still spend days installing it, and be an uber-hacker. What exactly are you upset about? That you will lose street cred?
Maybe he's scared that Gentooists will get labelled as AOLers for having such easy install instructions :P

I have never understood this. I use Gentoo because it is so easy. Before it, I ran RedHat, Suse, and Slackware, and they were all much much harder to get working properly and keep up to date.

Anyways, what makes a Stage 1 install the perfect starting place? If Stage 1 is better than Stage 3, then doesn't it follow that LFS is better than Stage 1? Perhaps the Genoo handbook should just describe how to write assembly code, and let the noobs write their own damn kernel?
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cokey
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh my god, another user who has no clue as to why a bootstrap should and shouldn't be done. You try and fix unknown errors which in the end turn out to be because they made a mistake or used a wrong option and 3 months down the line problems occur.

The fact is, stage 1 is redundant; the only reason people use it is to say "oh look i've done a stage 1!!!" :roll:
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richk449
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
oh my god, another user who has no clue as to why a bootstrap should and shouldn't be done. You try and fix unknown errors which in the end turn out to be because they made a mistake or used a wrong option and 3 months down the line problems occur.

The fact is, stage 1 is redundant; the only reason people use it is to say "oh look i've done a stage 1!!!" :roll:

Go back to thinking of curtis119 in a pvc cat-suit, coke.
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cokey
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
oh my god, another user who has no clue as to why a bootstrap should and shouldn't be done. You try and fix unknown errors which in the end turn out to be because they made a mistake or used a wrong option and 3 months down the line problems occur.

The fact is, stage 1 is redundant; the only reason people use it is to say "oh look i've done a stage 1!!!" :roll:
Go back to thinking of curtis119 in a pvc cat-suit, coke.
you are not the person i was thinking of when i wrote that, anyway, go play the game :D
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truekaiser
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
oh my god, another user who has no clue as to why a bootstrap should and shouldn't be done. You try and fix unknown errors which in the end turn out to be because they made a mistake or used a wrong option and 3 months down the line problems occur.

The fact is, stage 1 is redundant; the only reason people use it is to say "oh look i've done a stage 1!!!" :roll:


and what are the unkown errors you speak of without giving a example of?
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/dev/random
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-401237.html Consult the thread this is a dupe of.
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richk449
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
richk449 wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
oh my god, another user who has no clue as to why a bootstrap should and shouldn't be done. You try and fix unknown errors which in the end turn out to be because they made a mistake or used a wrong option and 3 months down the line problems occur.

The fact is, stage 1 is redundant; the only reason people use it is to say "oh look i've done a stage 1!!!" :roll:
Go back to thinking of curtis119 in a pvc cat-suit, coke.
you are not the person i was thinking of when i wrote that, anyway, go play the game :D

I know that you wern't talking to me - I just thought it would be more fun to spread the game over multiple threads.
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cokey
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

truekaiser wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
oh my god, another user who has no clue as to why a bootstrap should and shouldn't be done. You try and fix unknown errors which in the end turn out to be because they made a mistake or used a wrong option and 3 months down the line problems occur.

The fact is, stage 1 is redundant; the only reason people use it is to say "oh look i've done a stage 1!!!" :roll:
and what are the unkown errors you speak of without giving a example of?
mostly toolchain errors from building gcc with non standard options. Any libraries are particuarly suceptable to sensitive deviations, glibc, ulibc... Introducing variables into the backbone of any system will only create problems and seeing as how it's people like me who try and sort them out then i'd rather not spend my time on it.

I mean, what is the point of pissing about with GCC when there is no need? Ub3r0ptimizzZZati0ns
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truekaiser
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
truekaiser wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
oh my god, another user who has no clue as to why a bootstrap should and shouldn't be done. You try and fix unknown errors which in the end turn out to be because they made a mistake or used a wrong option and 3 months down the line problems occur.

The fact is, stage 1 is redundant; the only reason people use it is to say "oh look i've done a stage 1!!!" :roll:
and what are the unkown errors you speak of without giving a example of?
mostly toolchain errors from building gcc with non standard options. Any libraries are particuarly suceptable to sensitive deviations, glibc, ulibc... Introducing variables into the backbone of any system will only create problems and seeing as how it's people like me who try and sort them out then i'd rather not spend my time on it.

I mean, what is the point of pissing about with GCC when there is no need? Ub3r0ptimizzZZati0ns


makes even less sense now, how does recompiling these same programs not once. not twice, but three times(acording to the latest stage 1 on 3 guide) fix these problems?
not to mention this causes some rather nasty strain issues(we are talking 3+ days stright running compileing code) when it comes to laptops. which i happen to be useing.
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cokey
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

truekaiser wrote:
makes even less sense now, how does recompiling these same programs not once. not twice, but three times(acording to the latest stage 1 on 3 guide) fix these problems?
not to mention this causes some rather nasty strain issues(we are talking 3+ days stright running compileing code) when it comes to laptops. which i happen to be useing.
who mentioned stage 1 on 3? i wouldn't emerge -e systen for at least 4 weeks when i know exactly what settings i want from it. By then i would have thought about possible future packages (whether i planned to change GCC versions and whether there was a major glibc update on the horizon) and could have engineered my system accordingly. THAT is how to optimise a system, not building possible problems into gcc.
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truekaiser
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
truekaiser wrote:
makes even less sense now, how does recompiling these same programs not once. not twice, but three times(acording to the latest stage 1 on 3 guide) fix these problems?
not to mention this causes some rather nasty strain issues(we are talking 3+ days stright running compileing code) when it comes to laptops. which i happen to be useing.
who mentioned stage 1 on 3? i wouldn't emerge -e systen for at least 4 weeks when i know exactly what settings i want from it. By then i would have thought about possible future packages (whether i planned to change GCC versions and whether there was a major glibc update on the horizon) and could have engineered my system accordingly. THAT is how to optimise a system, not building possible problems into gcc.


if you read all of both of the threads they keep telling people like me who liked doing stage 1's to do the stage 1 on three or emerge -e world.
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abaelinor
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe its just my opinion but if u frequently do gentoo stage 1 installs, you might be using the wrong distro. i thought the idea was that you can update real easily, and not have to worry about re-installs unless you seriously wreck something. its not like gentoo stage 1's (or even 3's for that matter) take only an hr.

only way i could see 'frequently' installing gentoo for is if u have a bunch of comps lying around that are all diff.
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WTFman
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, why the fuck does it realy matter anyways? My first install was a stage 3 and I used lilo cause after all the time it took to install, I didn't feel like fucking around w/ grub trying to figure out how it worked. I have since reinstalled using 1/3 and I still don't know why the hell a stage one is any better or worse, all I know is that it runs alot faster now. Does it really make that much of a difference what the hanbook recomends for the default installation? I think not.
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Muso
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A stage 3 install followed by an emerge -euD world will give you a "stage 1".
What's the big deal ?
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amne
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

/dev/random wrote:
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-401237.html Consult the thread this is a dupe of.


Moved from OTW.
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