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ectospasm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:03 pm    Post subject: iPod: hfs+ vs. vfat Reply with quote

I've done some testing with using both hfsplus (hfs+) and vfat (fat32) formatting on my iPod (5th generation 30GB video iPod). I noticed something remarkable: when transferring my entire library over(over 2400 files), it took nearly two hours when it was vfat formatted, but less than twenty minutes when it was hfs+ formatted. This was all with the same hardware, same USB port, same USB bus. I've decided to keep my iPod formatted hfs+, for this very reason.

There are some caveats to using hfs+. First, as far as I know a Windows PC cannot read or write to these iPods. Also, the current state of the hfs+ driver in the kernel (I'm using 2.6.15-gentoo at the moment), if there are journal entries to be replayed, it will only mount the iPod read-only. This is obviously not desirable. One workaround is to use the "force" option in your mount command (or in /etc/fstab), like I did, but this could potentially lead to a corrupted filesystem. Since I've already reformatted my iPod a few times, I am willing to take the risk. There are also ways you can use a MacOS X computer to turn off journalling, but I couldn't figure out how effective that would be. YMMV, as always.

I'm not so sure that this post belongs in Documentation, Tips, and Tricks, but I didn't think it belonged in Multimeda, or Kernel & Hardware since I'm not requesting support.
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F.Ultra
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are there no fsck.hfs+ that you can use in order to replay the journal? That you have journals to replay does to me indicate that you have not cleanly unmounted your iPod(?) I have no iPod myself and has never used hfs+ so I might be guessing here, but it does looks like you have pulled the iPod from the usb-port while there was data to be saved thus leaving the filesystem in a invalid state.

There is ways to access hfs+ under windows, for example with this application suite that is also availble under Linux: http://www.mars.org/home/rob/proj/hfs/
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ectospasm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

F.Ultra wrote:
Are there no fsck.hfs+ that you can use in order to replay the journal? That you have journals to replay does to me indicate that you have not cleanly unmounted your iPod(?) I have no iPod myself and has never used hfs+ so I might be guessing here, but it does looks like you have pulled the iPod from the usb-port while there was data to be saved thus leaving the filesystem in a invalid state.


The kernel posts a message in /var/log/messages (or was it dmesg?) that basically says run fsck.hfsplus or use the force option, or something to that effect. I have yet to find a suitable program, not in hfsplusutils, or hfsutils, or anything else. I actually hosed the partition on my iPod once by inadvertantly converting it to HFS. I'd assume that as soon as there's a suitable fsck program, the kernel will have the ability to replay the journal directly shortly thereafter.

And I properly ejected (or at least tried to) when the problem occurred. Of course I was having trouble with that, I'd eject the iPod and it would return "no such device" or something like that after a long wait. And then I couldn't remount it, so I just disconnected it. The only alternative to that would be to totally shutdown my workstation and do it that way, but I don't like that idea. Since I've reformatted HFS+ again, and I'm using the force option, it ejects properly, or at least it did the last time I tried it.
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Houdini
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are cheap shareware programs to read HFS+ from Windows. Back in the day when I had an iPod and a Windows box, that's what I used. I think I spent ~$20.
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ectospasm
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Houdini wrote:
There are cheap shareware programs to read HFS+ from Windows. Back in the day when I had an iPod and a Windows box, that's what I used. I think I spent ~$20.


You are obviously new here. (-; Why would I even want to boot Windows?
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Houdini
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: iPod: hfs+ vs. vfat Reply with quote

ectospasm wrote:
There are some caveats to using hfs+. First, as far as I know a Windows PC cannot read or write to these iPods.


Make up your mind?
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CHAOSACES
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I gathered from this link http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_hfsplus in the Gentoo wiki, and from googling around, the hfs+ volume on an iPod is only journalized when an Apple with OSX is used to initialize it.
My girlfirend recieved a Nano for christmas from her brother, and he had already loaded some music on it using his iMac. I re-formatted the third partition (sda3) to hfs+ without a journal and now I can read/write to it with Gentoo.
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ectospasm
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: iPod: hfs+ vs. vfat Reply with quote

Houdini wrote:
ectospasm wrote:
There are some caveats to using hfs+. First, as far as I know a Windows PC cannot read or write to these iPods.


Make up your mind?


Windows still cannot read or write HFS+ natively, or can't do it at zero cost. I don't like paying for software if I can avoid it. The HFS+ driver in Linux will eventually be able to replay the journal, for free (in all senses of the word).

And when I wrote that originally I didn't know that there was third-party software available for Windows to read/write HFS+ volumes. I stand corrected, but it's still an unsavory solution, because it involves Microsoft software.
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