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GNUtoo
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 12:50 am    Post subject: how good is an ibook 12" Reply with quote

Actual specifications wrote:

* 512MB DDR333 SDRAM built-in.............................................................Enough for some little(not an entire network) virtualisation(Uml,colinux...)
* 40GB Ultra ATA drive................................................................................I would remplace it anyway(i have already a 80GB one)
* 12-inch TFT XGA display...........................................................................Great!!!
* 1.33GHz PowerPC G4................................................................................???
* ATI Mobility Radeon 9550 w/ 32MB DDR video memory........................???
* Combo drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW).............................................................Great and can be remplaced
* AirPort Extreme built-in.............................................................................Suported by gentoo and will be integrated in 2.6.17 kernel
* Bluetooth 2.0 built-in..................................................................................usefull?
*Open Firmware..............................................................................................No more stupid bios bug
*No pcmcia port..............................................................................................
*~5H battery life............................................................................................


why i Prefer the ibook over others x86 laptop:
*Cheap for such kind of computer(ultraportable+battery)
*Long battery life and avalibility of batteries
*Good graphic card for such computer(ultraportable+battery)

What isn't that good:
*core duo are better
-2 cores
-shared cache(would be great under dragonflyBSD)
-virtualisation suport(i would be able to run a fake network with windows...lol)
*No pc card
*no 1000 nic and no pc card
BUT:
i don't know any computer that can compete with this one:
*core duo computer are too expensive
*See all the advantages of the ibook

i have some questions:
*how fast is the ibook at compiling.................................................................................................................................???
*Wich games are playable under gentoo(obviously free software games sych as nexzui)..........................................most,need more precision
*Is the wifi Range good?..................................................................................................................................................Usable
*IS the system stable with gcc4.xx...............................................................................................................................???
*Does evrything works well?..........................................................................................................................................Yes,wifi suport is not 100% but usable
*What doesn't work under ppc(Open source things that doesn't work on ppc,excluding OS)...................................???
*Is there any tcpa or problems with the processor(such as PIII serial number or xbox360's fuse)?......................No(for tcpa->x86 mac only),i supose the processor is clean
See also my last post

(order updated to be compatible with the response to the last question+easyer to read)


Last edited by GNUtoo on Sun May 07, 2006 3:28 am; edited 18 times in total
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nss
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your specs are greater than my tibook G4 and I am very satisfied with my machine.

Sometimes I wish I had flash but there may be a workaround I haven't tried (see ppc faq). I'm also having some trouble with .rm video but with some work that should get straightened out.
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JoseJX
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first question is subjective. If you're upgrading from a 300Mhz machine, the iBook is fast. If you're coming from a dual core G5, the iBook is slow.
Most 3D games are playable, but it's a Radeon 9550, don't expect it to be really fast.
The wifi is adequate, but the drivers are still not 100% complete. There are range issues in Linux with the 4318 chipset used in these laptops.
ppc in general works okay with GCC-4.1, I wouldn't bother with 4.0.x. We're going to probably be moving 4.1 into ~ppc soon (within the next month hopefully).
The modem is the only piece of hardware without any support.
The answer to the last question is no.
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the same model I've been using for a couple of months now and I can report that it's really very good under Gentoo Linux. Everything is working for me apart from the modem which I believe can be made to work using the manufacturers drivers and a bit of fiddling. I find that the 3D performance is very poor but that may be my drivers and the wifi range is also a little poor but works well enough to be useable. Both of these things will improve over time though I'm sure.

Mt favourite things about this machine are it's size, battery life, the touchpad which can do multi finger, scrolling down the side etc and the builtin bluetooth which alot of laptops still don't have.
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It all comes down to what you want to do with it really...

The machine is more than fast enough for doing development work on (compiles may take a little while, but it is about as good as any other ultra-portable notebook on the market).

Multimedia will be just fine, however the real deal braker may end up being its performance in any type of gaming...

Sure, you will be able to play tuxracer, chromium or other fairly simple games, but do not expect smooth sailing in UT2004.

Also, unless you plan on doing some real fancy powersaving configuration, you will probably only see around 3 hours on that system (I am basing that off of my 12" Powerbook, not iBook, so it may be a little different for you).

Now, onto some of your questions...

As far as support under BCM43xx, I only see ~85% the range in Linux as I see in OSX, still it means up to 100 ft through a few walls though...
Overall everything is fairly stable, however it does depend on what you pull down onto your system. if you stick with "safe" packages (not tinkering in unmasks), then everything should work just fine for you.

As far as TCPA goes, Apple did not include anything of the kind prior to the move to Intel systems, so you are safe there, plus Apple isnt quite a Microsoft...

As far as what doesnt work, the big thing will be some of the multimedia stuff... For example, there are several codecs where you are left out in the cold, flash doesnt work, and a few other misc other things... So, if under linux, you would normally need w32codecs, then you are out of luck as those are precompiled binaries stripped strait from windows.

Everything else is fine. Plus, you can transcode pretty damn fast into xvid if you have a diecent amount of ram...
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GNUtoo
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bobotoes wrote:
Your specs are greater than my tibook G4 and I am very satisfied with my machine.

Sometimes I wish I had flash but there may be a workaround I haven't tried (see ppc faq). I'm also having some trouble with .rm video but with some work that should get straightened out.

that won't change much,on my curent box(piii700) i don't have flash neither:
*i doesn't want to use the closed source flash
*I doesn't want to use the gnash on firefox because it could crash it
*i have no 3d aceleration=>no way to use gnash's player

by the way if you realy want flash there is MOL(mac on linux)
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoseJX wrote:
The first question is subjective. If you're upgrading from a 300Mhz machine, the iBook is fast. If you're coming from a dual core G5, the iBook is slow.
Most 3D games are playable, but it's a Radeon 9550, don't expect it to be really fast.
The wifi is adequate, but the drivers are still not 100% complete. There are range issues in Linux with the 4318 chipset used in these laptops.
ppc in general works okay with GCC-4.1, I wouldn't bother with 4.0.x. We're going to probably be moving 4.1 into ~ppc soon (within the next month hopefully).
The modem is the only piece of hardware without any support.
The answer to the last question is no.


I have the folowing machines(about speed):
*piii 700 with 320MB ram with no 3d aceleration(not working)
*sempron 2500+ with 256MB ram and radeon 7200se

the sempron 2500+ is very fast specialy for compiling but it's slow for games such as nexuiz
The sempron is great and i can compile upgrade thing as i want...
compared to my sempron machine what speed should i expect from the ibook

The piii 700 is too slow because i can't recompile something as i want...for example if i want to upgrade something such as X,kde or firefox it will take so long that i would only do it for very important reasons,and there is no 3d aceleration

if the speed is close to the sempron it would be great

Games
UT2004 like games is not so important for me but open-source games are...
(from board games to 3d hangry FPS such as nexuiz or the upcomming ones)
I will play online and use hardened gentoo(too much security problems in games specialy in gentoo) once i tryed to played a board game and a player was pretending to pirate people,well in this case i can never be shure because he was typing strange things and this could also be true(fuzz testing->strange result->attack)
but that won't prevent strings and logic attacks

The way the problem with hungry games are the use of new standard(http://www.oldblivion.com/)
There is a patch for obvilon that permit to play it on old computers
It works by downgrading the standard,because Pixel shader 1.1 and vertex shader 1.1. are too hangry

Others questions:
*Is this ibook noisy?(the fan because i already have a 2,5" hdd)
*is there a way to(mouse related question):

-make the touchpad left click
-make the the mouse buton right click
-change konsole(=kde's console) to paste using right click and use a keyboard buton to make the thing you were doing with the rightclick

i don't know much about java and i am confused with ajax eclipse ibm jdk,blackdows...
i read in the FAQ that there is a IBM plugin...is that the only plugin...and what is a plugin for?
is it for the browser?
i think that blackdown is the default under gentoo...does firefox use blackdown???

Just before Apple shift to X86 there were some inovation in the ppc world such as a low power G4,does the ibook use this one?

By the way as i plan to use only linux,Is there a way to switch to little endian(g4 can do both)
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magnum@paranoia
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

new_to_non_X86 wrote:
*Is this ibook noisy?(the fan because i already have a 2,5" hdd)

In my G4 iBooks, the fan only starts under heavy CPU load. Then the iBook also get's quite hot. My G3 iBooks instead get quite warm also while idling but do not get much hotter when under load. So overall I prefer the termal behaviour of the G4 iBooks. Compared to other laptop fans I heared the fan is not noisy.

new_to_non_X86 wrote:
*is there a way to(mouse related question):
-make the touchpad left click

Yes, this is the default. More than that: The recent iBooks have a USB trackpad and the only way to _disable_ tapping is to use the synaptics X11 driver. But this driver does not reset the dimming timer, so you have to press a key.

new_to_non_X86 wrote:
-make the the mouse buton right click

No, that's not possible.

Please visit my webpage about linux on the recent iBooks: http://cmr.forestfactory.de/ibook/linux/ibook_linux.html

cu, Magnum
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GNUtoo
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

great website
i didn't know that ibook had frequency scalling

by the way the java problem seems complicated:http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
i also read that there are a lot of different java implementations...
as my goal is to run only free software that would be hard...lol

as far as i understand there is only classpath that is free
and blackdown isn't that compatible(mabe that's the cause of some firefox crash)
i'll investigate
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IBM's java implementation is the only modern java implementation available for ppc. You don't really have a choice here.
PowerPC linux uses only big endian. Unless you want to write your own OS, there is no linux option for little endian PowerPC. It can do it, but nobody does.
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoseJX wrote:
IBM's java implementation is the only modern java implementation available for ppc. You don't really have a choice here.
PowerPC linux uses only big endian. Unless you want to write your own OS, there is no linux option for little endian PowerPC. It can do it, but nobody does.

Between the officialy suported version IBM is the only one avaliable for ppc because of security reasons(for blackdown)

But i was thinking about claspath
i haven't yet understood what is the standard virtual machine for classpath
i have posted here for java and classpath:
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-460380-start-0-postdays-0-postorder-asc-highlight-.html

By the way the migration to classpath is in the summer of code project
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the sempron 2500+ is very fast specialy for compiling but it's slow for games such as nexuiz
The sempron is great and i can compile upgrade thing as i want...
compared to my sempron machine what speed should i expect from the ibook


If it's socket A sempron, then I'd say only a little slower or equal. Clock for clock I'd say G4 is about at same level as Athlon XP, my old 2GHz A64 clawhammer compiled about twise as fast as my 1,42GHz G4, though I've never made any reliable comparisons and now after main system upgrade I can't do any fair benching.

Java for ppc sure is pain, I got pretty pissed with it lately when I did full upgrade on the system and found out that some genious engineer has made some bright decision that you need browser with java -- to download java off from ibm website.
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bluekkis wrote:
Quote:
the sempron 2500+ is very fast specialy for compiling but it's slow for games such as nexuiz
The sempron is great and i can compile upgrade thing as i want...
compared to my sempron machine what speed should i expect from the ibook


If it's socket A sempron, then I'd say only a little slower or equal. Clock for clock I'd say G4 is about at same level as Athlon XP, my old 2GHz A64 clawhammer compiled about twise as fast as my 1,42GHz G4, though I've never made any reliable comparisons and now after main system upgrade I can't do any fair benching.

Java for ppc sure is pain, I got pretty pissed with it lately when I did full upgrade on the system and found out that some genious engineer has made some bright decision that you need browser with java -- to download java off from ibm website.


great(i have a socket A sempron)
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a newer (about a year old) 12" 1.5 GHz Powerbook. The battery life should be better on the iBook, since it uses a CPU that consumes less power and a slower rotating hard disk.

My battery life right now is 2.75-3 hrs and you can expect more from an iBook.

Can't comment on any of the software issues as I am still running OSX with portage and working on getting Linux working.
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, lets see how iBooks or G4's etc. compare against my IBM ThinkPad X31 with a Centrino 1400 MHz processor.

Instructions and my own results may be found there:

https://stier.is-a-geek.com/~moinmoin/MarksWiki/CompilationBenchmarks/GentooFirefox

Please add your own so we can compare.
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

magnum@paranoia wrote:

new_to_non_X86 wrote:
-make the the mouse buton right click

No, that's not possible.

even with modification to the kenrel driver?

by the way how well is the r300 driver
can you play games with it?
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you would like to write a kernel patch to support this, I'm sure it would be appreciated. Yes, the r300 drivers are adequate, but not great for 3D gaming. They will be better in Xorg-7.1.
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoseJX wrote:
If you would like to write a kernel patch to support this, I'm sure it would be appreciated.

I wrote this because there are a lot of kernel patch lying around,an example is the low voltage patch for pentium M
It can also be easy to change it if it's well written and documented and mabe with a little help
But i am not a C hacker...i don't know well C/C++(i did know a little about long time ago)
Now i try to learn perl when i have the time,i could do a lot of things with perl(i have several projects that suit well that language)
By the way(for newbees that are reading) the kernel is not written in C/C++ it is written in s C like language
an example is printf
there is no printf
there is a printk instead that has some differences with printf
that's because the kenrel has his own function because he can't rely on libc that is in userspace


Last edited by GNUtoo on Sat May 13, 2006 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Linux kernel is written in C, not C++. You are correct that you cannot use the standard libraries (like libc) but those are not part of the C language.
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoseJX wrote:
The Linux kernel is written in C, not C++. You are correct that you cannot use the standard libraries (like libc) but those are not part of the C language.

oops i didn't look well at what i've written...lol C++ :oops:
that's corected now

by the way are 3d games like nexuiz playable under r300?

oh no,not again...the xorg 7.1 is hard maskered!!!
mabe that's a security flaw...
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xorg 7.1 is masked because it is not binary compatible with xorg-7.0. It isn't really ready for the average user yet, but r300 performance is better and less buggy.

I have not tried nexuiz on my r300, but for the simple games I play (crack-attack, tomatoes, etc.) the r300 is more than adequate.
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoseJX wrote:
Xorg 7.1 is masked because it is not binary compatible with xorg-7.0. It isn't really ready for the average user yet, but r300 performance is better and less buggy.

I have not tried nexuiz on my r300, but for the simple games I play (crack-attack, tomatoes, etc.) the r300 is more than adequate.

GREAT!!!
thank a lot!!!
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: how good is an ibook 12" Reply with quote

new_to_non_X86 wrote:
Actual specifications wrote:

* 512MB DDR333 SDRAM built-in.............................................................Enough for some little(not an entire network) virtualisation(Uml,colinux...)
* 40GB Ultra ATA drive................................................................................I would remplace it anyway(i have already a 80GB one)
* 12-inch TFT XGA display...........................................................................Great!!!
* 1.33GHz PowerPC G4................................................................................???
* ATI Mobility Radeon 9550 w/ 32MB DDR video memory........................???
* Combo drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW).............................................................Great and can be remplaced
* AirPort Extreme built-in.............................................................................Suported by gentoo and will be integrated in 2.6.17 kernel

Oh fine. I really think about switching to the next G4 generation as soon as AirPort Extreme is official. Since I'm doing all desktop work with this v machine the G3 has a bit too much load while emerging, ripping and using it. Then finally the G3 will become a 24h mini design server.
By the way the last G4 series should be cheaper since everyone wants a macbook.
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