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SirLD
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:33 am    Post subject: PowerMac doesn't boot Reply with quote

hey everybody!

i recently installed gentoo on a powermac. but before i could install quik somebody turned it off. well, i thought, no prob. i created these debian boot floppies and did reset the powermac (alt+apple+r+p). but my powermac doesn't like the boot floppy. whenever i turn it on with the floppy inserted, the mac ejects it and displays a floppy with a cross. after a while it displays a floppy with a question mark. when i insert the floppy again, it again ejects it.

can anybody help me? i just need to boot linux and do changeroot.
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panyo
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:42 am    Post subject: Re: PowerMac doesn't boot Reply with quote

If you have a floppy drive, then we are probably talking about an OldWorld machine?
You will not be able to boot of your Debian floppy.

How did you do your installation? If you have BootX already installed, you can boot
with the ram disk, as you would for an installation, and break into a shell from the X based
installer and continue your work. It have been a while since I have done it, but you know
what to search for.
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SirLD
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hm, thats a pity. is there a chance to boot my powermac anyway? it is indeed an old world machine. i think its a ppc 7300 or 7600, cant remember exactly (its at home and i dont have inet there, yet... until my ppc works ;) :D )

ok, i have only one scsi hdd installed. so i had to delete macos. unfortunately. ok, and this is how i did it:

1. i downloaded and burned the gentoo ppc universal cd on another computer
2. i downloaded aladin expander and extracted bootx on my ppc
3. i booted the apple kernel with the apple.igz ramdisk and defined the image.squashfs on the cd as root device.
4. i did the installation of gentoo as te handbook says
5. until the bootloader. did what the handbook says except for installing quik via quik -v -C /boot/quik.conf

at this point the ppc had been turned off. when i turned it on it stayed blank without doing anything.

i did the reset thing from the handbook: apple-key + alt-key + r + p
and now i have that questionmarkdiskthing.

so, do you see any way i could complete the quik-installation or to boot linux or maybe to install macos again and then install linux again (hm... big effort but if its the only way it works....)

thanks for the answer :)

sirld

p.s.: bootx is only for booting from inside macos, isn't it? so it has actually nothing to do with the boot process itself?
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hawaiian717
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On an Old World machine, you need to keep Mac OS. So first step is to reinstall it. Version 8 or 9 should work (I use 9.1 IIRC). Once that's done, reinstall Gentoo; don't remove Mac OS, you need to keep it around and boot Mac OS first, then switch to Linux. You can set Linux to be the default so that when BootX runs on startup, it unloads Mac OS by default and boots Linux.

Old World machines expect to find Mac OS on startup, thus you need to keep Mac OS around. The NetBSD install directions do give a method to run that OS without Mac OS that could probably be applied to Linux, but I wasn't able to get it to work on either system as getting an Open Firmware prompt can be tricky.
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panyo
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SirLD wrote:
hm, thats a pity. is there a chance to boot my powermac anyway? it is indeed an old world machine. i think its a ppc 7300 or 7600, cant remember exactly (its at home and i dont have inet there, yet... until my ppc works ;) :D )

ok, i have only one scsi hdd installed. so i had to delete macos. unfortunately. ok, and this is how i did it:

1. i downloaded and burned the gentoo ppc universal cd on another computer
2. i downloaded aladin expander and extracted bootx on my ppc
3. i booted the apple kernel with the apple.igz ramdisk and defined the image.squashfs on the cd as root device.
4. i did the installation of gentoo as te handbook says
5. until the bootloader. did what the handbook says except for installing quik via quik -v -C /boot/quik.conf

Ok, I have Gentoo on exactly such a machine so it can be done.
I am not sure what you mean by 3. You mean you had Macos on the 7600, installed BootX, then used BootX to reboot into
the Gentoo installer? I think that is what you mean.
Be sure you are following the right install guide. It has been a while, but there are some quirks to building a kernel that boots
on your machine. Search the powerpc forum for discussions on this. You are correct that quick does not apply to you, but I wonder if your are following the right install guide if you are seeing that.
Now- here is what may be the key to your current issue:
Quote:

p.s.: bootx is only for booting from inside macos, isn't it? so it has actually nothing to do with the boot process itself?

No- bootx is how you will boot into Linux from now on.
Old world machines need to boot into Linux from MacOS. There was a trick at some point involving fake files renamed as finder and system (maybe that was LinuxPowerPC?), but you still need the mac partition. You can set it up so that it reboots automatically into Linux, but you will always have a small partition with a stripped down MacOS and BootX to boot from. If you re-partitioned your drive and did not make a little HFS partition (30 or 40 meg was enough if I recall correctly) onto which you copied/installed MacOS and the BootX control panel and your kernel, then that is your problem. You need a minimum finder/system/enablers, the appearance control panel and maybe the startup disk control panel. A version of MacOS 7 is available for free on line, though having an install CD that boots your machine is very helpful.
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SirLD
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

panyo wrote:
am not sure what you mean by 3. You mean you had Macos on the 7600, installed BootX, then used BootX to reboot into
the Gentoo installer? I think that is what you mean.


ya, this is what i meant.

unfortunately i had to delete the mac-os partition to be able to create other partitions.

i talked to other people via irc and they told me a few tricks but none worked. i couldnt even get into the OF promt :(

i think i have to reinstall mac-os. i found floppy images but dont know how to handle them:

http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/German/Macintosh/System/Full_Installs/System_7.5_Version_7.5.3/

i have only access to linux machines. how do i create floppies from that? dd doesnt work (obviously ;) ) or how can i install mac-os?

and: am i able to repartition the hdd during installation of mac-os?
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panyo
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SirLD wrote:


i couldnt even get into the OF promt :(


You have an Old World machine. It does not have an OF prompt.
You need to get a system and finder onto a disk of some kind, floppy, CD, external SCSI
or internal SCSI. As for dd, I am not so sure that it would not work. It depends on what the
apple floppy image format was. If it was just a file dumped by dd, the dd would work. No harm trying if
we are only talking a floppy.
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JoseJX
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As it says in the readme file for those disk images, the provided files are a self extracting Disk Copy images. You must unpack them on MacOS.

Old World PowerPC machines do actually have open firmware, it's just an older version that has a lot of bugs. Your best bet is to find an OS8 or OS9 Install CD.
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SirLD
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hm... ya, does anybody have an install cd or an image i could burn?
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nixnut
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The copyright on those cd's make it illegal to share them and trading in them is therefore not allowed on the forums. I'm afraid you'll have to try your luck elsewhere. Perhaps miboot can help you.
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SirLD
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what is miboot?
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SirLD
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey, thanks nixnut for the image. it works... until i have to insert a root floppy... none of what i found worked :(

ok, what i did now: i used my neighbours ibook to extract the networkaccess floppy from the apple ftp server. i then went to university to write the .image file (dd if=blabla of=/def/fd0 conv=sync) to a floppy. but it doesnt boot. is that normal?!
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