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darklegion
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HecHacker1 wrote:
Last time I checked Hans was fighting with Linus over coding styles... but since Hans isn't maintaining this code anymore?


Hans Reiser was convicted for murder recently, so I doubt he'll be working on the code any time soon.However, the rest of Namesys is still working on it.Mailing list here:
http://marc.info/?l=reiserfs-devel&r=1&w=2
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HecHacker1
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

darklegion wrote:
HecHacker1 wrote:
Last time I checked Hans was fighting with Linus over coding styles... but since Hans isn't maintaining this code anymore?


Hans Reiser was convicted for murder recently, so I doubt he'll be working on the code any time soon.However, the rest of Namesys is still working on it.Mailing list here:
http://marc.info/?l=reiserfs-devel&r=1&w=2


yeah i know, thats why i was asking. Also, www.namesys.com has been down a long time (who's gonna pay the bills?)

I want to have the performance of reiser4, but I rather not use it if there is no guarantee that one day it will simply stopped being maintained.

I guess I'll have to ask the current developers their plans for the future? Since it seems nobody else has really addressed the issue with direct questions?

damn.. if only i never tried reiser4!
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rmh3093
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HecHacker1 wrote:
darklegion wrote:
HecHacker1 wrote:
Last time I checked Hans was fighting with Linus over coding styles... but since Hans isn't maintaining this code anymore?


Hans Reiser was convicted for murder recently, so I doubt he'll be working on the code any time soon.However, the rest of Namesys is still working on it.Mailing list here:
http://marc.info/?l=reiserfs-devel&r=1&w=2


yeah i know, thats why i was asking. Also, www.namesys.com has been down a long time (who's gonna pay the bills?)

I want to have the performance of reiser4, but I rather not use it if there is no guarantee that one day it will simply stopped being maintained.

I guess I'll have to ask the current developers their plans for the future? Since it seems nobody else has really addressed the issue with direct questions?

damn.. if only i never tried reiser4!
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why not try btrfs
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
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Must...resist...Nina Reiser jokes...
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's some recent reiser4 status info from the list http://marc.info/?l=reiserfs-devel&m=120173123713322&w=2 :
Those patches of mine were merged in the 2.6.25-mm1 or so timeframe, everything else is more/less true.
Quote:
Current status of Reiser4 (Jan 31, 2008).


I. Todo for inclusion:


This is an update of the following version:
http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:tzvFNZjSsNYJ:pub.namesys.com/Reiser4/ToDo

#10,11: Cleanups. There are 74 pending patches prepared by Dushan:
http://marc.info/?l=reiserfs-devel&r=1&b=200710&w=2
which are supposed to be reviewed by another person and pushed to
the current -mm as a big single patch _before_ the next portion of
cleanups.

#3 There is a pending patch to review/merge:
http://marc.info/?l=reiserfs-devel&m=119316601418489&w=2

#9: I don't see any leaked jref there. Perhaps we need to rewrite this
portion of code to make it more clear.

#1,2,4: Here we need to explain why the pair igrab/iput (igrab in
reiser4_writepage, iput in entd()) won't hummer inode_lock. Actually
we need to pin inode for entd, as inode can be reused, or evicted from
memory at the moment when entd starts to process the request. Entd is
a kernel thread, which performs an "active" response to every memory
pressure notification (writepage). IMHO this is not a good design.
Getting rid of entd would address #1,2,4 automatically (currently I am
working on this).

#5: Here should go detailed comments how do reiser4 respond to memory
pressure notification (writepage, see above). If mainline vm experts
will be unhappy with this, then, I guess, we'll need eflush back, plus
a eflush port for cryptcompress file plugin. Eflush (emergency flush)
is a "passive" response to writepage(), which pushes dirty pages to
temporary location on disk. Eflush code for default (unix-file) plugin
has been dropped ~1.5 years ago in accordance with Hans' direction in
order to stimulate better solutions.

#14 Should be marked as "not done" and needs to be addressed.


II. Longterm todo


Here are some technical details for the items listed in this document:
http://lwn.net/Articles/226251 (see Appendix D, 11.2-11.4).

Xattrs support (listed as #12 in the previous todo, but not necessary
for inclusion) would be a serious project which requires only
knowledges of VFS/Reiser4/Reiser4progs internals. I think that xattrs
should be implemented via special reiser4 stat-data extensions.
However, currently reiser4 supports only "solid" stat-data items (an
item is "solid", if it consists of exactly one unit, i.e. can not be
split into two or more mergeable items). It means that amount of
information contained in file's xattrs will be restricted by ~4000
bytes (blocksize - size-of-node-header - size-of-item-header -
size-of-standard-stat-data-extensions (for i_size, i_mtime, i_ctime,
i_mode, etc..)). I don't know if it is enough to integrate reiser4
with Selinux. If not, then we'll need one more stat-data item plugin
to support "not solid" stat-data items.

As per encryption support: current reiser4 kernel module and
reiser4progs are pretty aware about this, so IMHO we just need an
integration with some existing key manager (I would take a look how
things are going in eCryptFS). Also we need a fast IV generator for
chaining cipher modes. I have proposed a simple one based on iv-seed,
which is calculated as object's id (i_ino), but not sure if it is
stable against watermark attack.

ECC-signatures support should be implemented via a new node41 plugin
(i.e. we need to define proper node format and plugin methods that
take into account space for per-node signature storage (for example,
if we use an adler32 checksum as ECC-signature, then we need 4 bytes
per node). Supporting such signatures allows to increase robustness.
Currently reiser4 performs data (not metadata) checksumming for files
managed by cryptcompress file plugin. However, metadata protection is
not a less important feature. I think, that we need something like
Reed-Solomon signatures rather then checksums, because all modern hard
drives already perform checksumming. I believe there are reasonable
GPL's libraries that implement RS-arithmetic which can be interesting
for us.

All reiser4 documentation has been performed as comments in the source
code. Also there are links to some useful stuff:

reiser4 transaction design document:
http://lwn.net/2001/1108/a/reiser4-transaction.php3

whitepaper:
http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:EwK-ZBZaSxwJ:www.namesys.com/v4/v4.html

Trees in the Reiser4 Filesystem, Part I,II:
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6267
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6569

Thanks,
Edward.
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MageSlayer
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just tested new Nvidia 93.43.05 patch for >2.6.25 (using 2.6.26-rc2-zen1)

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=223907

Seems like everything works. Maybe some of zen maintainer would commit it to zen git? Gentoo "officials" do not want to do that.
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dodo1122
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Included in zen-overlay. Thanks :)

Also, latest wireless-testing merged into master. Hopefully it'll fix iwl4965 for some people.

dodo
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Mr. Tao
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reiser4 is literaly fscked up in recent zen kernels.
  • I've been using some older revisions of 2.6.24 without problems, then I reinstalled system and moved to recent zen and I keep receiving:
      reiser4 panicked cowardly: reiser4[pdflush(212)]: reiser4_handle_error (fs/reiser4/vfs_ops.c:232)[foobar-42]:
      Kernel panic - not syncing: reiser4_handle_error (fs/reiser4/vfs_ops.c:232)[foobar-42]:
    Same with 2.6.26-rc4-zen1.2.
  • Moreover it take ages to mount block devices as well as loops.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We use the patch provided by upstream - http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/edward/reiser4/reiser4-for-2.6/ . This patch works for me personally (i have reiser4 /usr/portage with cryptcompress and gzip1 compression). We also tried the one from -mm, but that doesn't work at all. If you have a better patch, please let us know :P

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dodo1122 wrote:
If you have a better patch, please let us know :P
I'm not sure which one SystemRescueCD uses, but it seems to be working best for me.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reiser4 has been the fastest piece of crap since it first came out, its not any better now than it was 6 years ago, all you reiser4 users must have been dropped on your head too many times as children, reiser4 will never be in a vanilla kernel, i have no idea why anyone would put up with afilesystem issues every other kernel, so what if its fast, its annoyingly broken, you guys must love using old kernels

... reiser4 should be banned, if that is possible
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yes, you wrote this so many times. What comes next? Is it btrfs you suggest? With this attitude there would have never been access to ntfs partitions in linux. With such an approach there wouldn't even be linux itself.
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rmh3093
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Tao wrote:
Oh yes, you wrote this so many times. What comes next? Is it btrfs you suggest? With this attitude there would have never been access to ntfs partitions in linux. With such an approach there wouldn't even be linux itself.


i actually was all for r4 when it came out, but a fucked up hardisk and lost data a few times and i never went back to it, and its not like i have something personal against r4, but it has exited for almost as long as I have been using linux and they havent gotten into a vanilla kernel yet, the devs of r4 refused to implement any suggestion made by any of the real kernel devs so its just turned into the biggest pet project ever

ntfs support is a whole other issue, i mean nfts in windows exits and isnt going anywhere, so good attempt at making a port for linux will have many people behind it working on it, plus there is a genuine need for it, where as r4 is just a want....
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Tao wrote:
Oh yes, you wrote this so many times. What comes next? Is it btrfs you suggest? With this attitude there would have never been access to ntfs partitions in linux. With such an approach there wouldn't even be linux itself.

If I had my way, zen-sources would not even contain reiser4, as it is dead upstream, incomplete, and broken to the point where unbreaking it and making it suitable for production work would take an inordinate amount of time.

The fact that it is included at all is a testament to the doggedness of reiser4 users.

Edit: NTFS partition support was originally provided by a FUSE driver which used ntfs.sys itself to provide an interface to the partitions in a fairly trivial fashion. Linux was written as a hobby, and was never intended to be anything bigger than just an alternative to Minix. We have a saying: He who writes the code chooses the programming language.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MostAwesomeDude wrote:
Mr. Tao wrote:
Oh yes, you wrote this so many times. What comes next? Is it btrfs you suggest? With this attitude there would have never been access to ntfs partitions in linux. With such an approach there wouldn't even be linux itself.

If I had my way, zen-sources would not even contain reiser4, as it is dead upstream, incomplete, and broken to the point where unbreaking it and making it suitable for production work would take an inordinate amount of time.

The fact that it is included at all is a testament to the doggedness of reiser4 users.

Edit: NTFS partition support was originally provided by a FUSE driver which used ntfs.sys itself to provide an interface to the partitions in a fairly trivial fashion. Linux was written as a hobby, and was never intended to be anything bigger than just an alternative to Minix. We have a saying: He who writes the code chooses the programming language.


I second that, the only reason its in the kernel is because Dodo uses it for portage, but i dont care if 'emerge -s' takes 2.8s or 3s, and he uses it on trivial data, he dont dare use it on his rootfs...
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
As one of reiser4 masochists I'd like to ask you if you could please send r4 errors you got with latest -mm or latest stable patch and ways to reproduce them to reiser4 m-l (reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org) as I couldn't make it fail with my setup using 2.6.26-rc2-mm1 so that developers could repair it :).

Thanks in advance
Dushan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try patching the vanilla kernel.I was having issues with zen-sources and reiser4, but then I switched to vanilla 2.6.25.3 + reiser4 + tuxonice and a few other small patches and haven't had any problems since (2 week+ uptime).This is with compression enabled, too.Although I've only had problems with my amd64 desktop, my laptop works fine with zen.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The patch sysresccd uses for reiser4 are exactly the same ones as we use, so there shouldn't be anything weird happening. As i said before, it works perfectly for me with cryptcompress and gzip1. I'm also on x86_64.

Quote:
Hi
As one of reiser4 masochists I'd like to ask you if you could please send r4 errors you got with latest -mm or latest stable patch and ways to reproduce them to reiser4 m-l (reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org) as I couldn't make it fail with my setup using 2.6.26-rc2-mm1 so that developers could repair it :).

Thanks in advance
Dushan


It only failed when using cryptcompress, the rest worked. With cryptcompress, while copying data to it, or using it, it would either panic for some people, or (for me) hang with any heavier io.

dodo
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My problems with Reiser4 are limited to R4 ccreg40 loop files on R4 ccreg40 partition. In this configuration, it panics either when updating paludis cache or when unmounting loop file. (While both works in from SR CD chrooted 2.6.25 environment).
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rmh got me interested with btrfs and I did some looking. I use Oracle heavily here in the office so I think I am going to give it a whirl. I trust oracle, they contribute a boat load to the kernel.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rmh3093 wrote:
MostAwesomeDude wrote:
Mr. Tao wrote:
Oh yes, you wrote this so many times. What comes next? Is it btrfs you suggest? With this attitude there would have never been access to ntfs partitions in linux. With such an approach there wouldn't even be linux itself.

If I had my way, zen-sources would not even contain reiser4, as it is dead upstream, incomplete, and broken to the point where unbreaking it and making it suitable for production work would take an inordinate amount of time.

The fact that it is included at all is a testament to the doggedness of reiser4 users.

Edit: NTFS partition support was originally provided by a FUSE driver which used ntfs.sys itself to provide an interface to the partitions in a fairly trivial fashion. Linux was written as a hobby, and was never intended to be anything bigger than just an alternative to Minix. We have a saying: He who writes the code chooses the programming language.


I second that, the only reason its in the kernel is because Dodo uses it for portage, but i dont care if 'emerge -s' takes 2.8s or 3s, and he uses it on trivial data, he dont dare use it on his rootfs...


I was going to write a funny reply with references to Code Geass, Anakin Skywalker and L.L.Cool J's catch phrase, "Mama said knock you out!" but I'm too tired.

I'll just type that I have been using reiser4 since it came out. I did suffer data loss a few years back (that hard drive full bug) but nowadays I'm confident in the file system and I have been using it on my root partition since the beginning. Also, at my place there are random power outages and am greatful for reiser4 saving my synced data. And thanks for maintaining reiser4 in zen or else I would have to make my own custom kernel by myself again.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

charlie wrote:
rmh3093 wrote:
MostAwesomeDude wrote:
Mr. Tao wrote:
Oh yes, you wrote this so many times. What comes next? Is it btrfs you suggest? With this attitude there would have never been access to ntfs partitions in linux. With such an approach there wouldn't even be linux itself.

If I had my way, zen-sources would not even contain reiser4, as it is dead upstream, incomplete, and broken to the point where unbreaking it and making it suitable for production work would take an inordinate amount of time.

The fact that it is included at all is a testament to the doggedness of reiser4 users.

Edit: NTFS partition support was originally provided by a FUSE driver which used ntfs.sys itself to provide an interface to the partitions in a fairly trivial fashion. Linux was written as a hobby, and was never intended to be anything bigger than just an alternative to Minix. We have a saying: He who writes the code chooses the programming language.


I second that, the only reason its in the kernel is because Dodo uses it for portage, but i dont care if 'emerge -s' takes 2.8s or 3s, and he uses it on trivial data, he dont dare use it on his rootfs...


I was going to write a funny reply with references to Code Geass, Anakin Skywalker and L.L.Cool J's catch phrase, "Mama said knock you out!" but I'm too tired.

I'll just type that I have been using reiser4 since it came out. I did suffer data loss a few years back (that hard drive full bug) but nowadays I'm confident in the file system and I have been using it on my root partition since the beginning. Also, at my place there are random power outages and am greatful for reiser4 saving my synced data. And thanks for maintaining reiser4 in zen or else I would have to make my own custom kernel by myself again.


its just that, if a patch dont apply 100% perfectly, the error could be my fault in patching, or it could be intrinsic to the code, but I will never know, so error that i get get I cant not figrure out the origin, i rather just avoid this and use a stable fs, i will play eith any other aspect of the kernel, but playing wiht FS is like shooting your self in the foot
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Tao wrote:
My problems with Reiser4 are limited to R4 ccreg40 loop files on R4 ccreg40 partition. In this configuration, it panics either when updating paludis cache or when unmounting loop file. (While both works in from SR CD chrooted 2.6.25 environment).


Could you please try vanilla kernel with the reiser4 patch from kernel.org (link coupla posts above)? Maybe it's something in zen that is causing it, although i doubt it.

Also, the reiser4 patch applies cleanly, so it's definitely not patching fault.

dodo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rmh3093 wrote:
reiser4 has been the fastest piece of crap since it first came out, its not any better now than it was 6 years ago, all you reiser4 users must have been dropped on your head too many times as children, reiser4 will never be in a vanilla kernel, i have no idea why anyone would put up with afilesystem issues every other kernel, so what if its fast, its annoyingly broken, you guys must love using old kernels

... reiser4 should be banned, if that is possible


thanks for nothing.. well thanks for letting me know that nobody cares to maintain reiser4. I'll go ahead and stop using it.

I must love using old kernels? wtf I have zen sources. I use reiser4 because it is efficient and fast. It does better than any other filesystem except for cpu usage.

btrfs? thats even more unstable. for me reiser4 has been stable for a long time.

I could go back to reiserfs; ext3 is dog slow and fragments too easily. Then again ext4 is considered stable now. I'll stick to that since it will be supported and improved in the future.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dodo1122 wrote:
Mr. Tao wrote:
My problems with Reiser4 are limited to R4 ccreg40 loop files on R4 ccreg40 partition. In this configuration, it panics either when updating paludis cache or when unmounting loop file. (While both works in from SR CD chrooted 2.6.25 environment).


Could you please try vanilla kernel with the reiser4 patch from kernel.org (link coupla posts above)? Maybe it's something in zen that is causing it, although i doubt it.

Also, the reiser4 patch applies cleanly, so it's definitely not patching fault.

dodo


It could be something to do with the CK patches, I seem to recall that 2.6.25-dark1 had this problem as well, and it pretty much includes nothing but part of CK and some small patches.
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