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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tariella,

When your rebuild something, if the intermediate and output files are still in the source tree make reuses them whenever it can.
It checks that the timestamp on any file to be reused it later than the sources that go into it, than the compile is skipped.

Its a but of a double edged sword. If you change something fundamental in the kernel config, say flip SMP support, 4k/8k stacks, or regparams etc. you must do a make clean to ensure everything is rebuilt properly.

When you change a framebuffer driver, the shortcut is safe.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No need to apologize. It's just one of those things. Certain devices are sensitive to things like that...like Intel video chips. The only way one get to know things like that is to spend hours here. Eventually, you get to know the problems, and the cures.

I wouldn't be holding to well to the idea of Linux if I kept my knowledge to myself.

Blessed be!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Pappy, on a system where I've been referring to partitions as "hda", is it expected to start needing to call them "sda" after following the instructions for using one of your seeds (in particular, using newer HD drivers)? On 2 machines, this hasn't caused a problem, but on a third, I've been having major fs errors that recur frequently. I don't think this has anything to do with your seeds, but I was hoping to find out what's going on. I know that since I've had to experiment a bit and ran into several kernel panics, I've had to hold down this machine's power button and I'm sure that didn't help, but even after fsck says it's clean, it comes back.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

audiodef wrote:
Hey Pappy, on a system where I've been referring to partitions as "hda", is it expected to start needing to call them "sda" after following the instructions for using one of your seeds (in particular, using newer HD drivers)?

Yes. The use of the libata drivers (SATA) will change your disk from hd(x) to sd(x). If set properly, your optical drives will become sr(x).

It is not necessary to use the libata drivers for functionality on older systems, however, with most modern systems, SATA is now king. Therefore, it is assumed that you will be using the libata drivers in preference to the ATA/ATAPI/MFM/RLL drivers. I'm just following the path of the latest and greatest.

I have even set up kernels with ATA/ATAPI/MFM/RLL for others when it was clear that to change them to libata drivers would be completely counterproductive. But as a general rule, I much prefer folks use the libata drivers.

Quote:
On 2 machines, this hasn't caused a problem, but on a third, I've been having major fs errors that recur frequently. I don't think this has anything to do with your seeds, but I was hoping to find out what's going on. I know that since I've had to experiment a bit and ran into several kernel panics, I've had to hold down this machine's power button and I'm sure that didn't help, but even after fsck says it's clean, it comes back.

Yes, you can run into data troubles when you wind up holding the power button to stop things. I have had to do that a few times, and so far, I haven't had a data loss from any of my machines...and yes, the have all locked up, at least once. Certain file systems handle such things better than others. Knock on wood, reiserfs has been very, very good to me.

Of course, that doesn't help you, so answer the following, please: Which fs? How do the errors occur (lockup or just running)? How new is the hard drive on said machine? Is the computer in question generally unstable, or only coming up with fs errors?

Blessed be!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae wrote:

Of course, that doesn't help you, so answer the following, please: Which fs? How do the errors occur (lockup or just running)? How new is the hard drive on said machine? Is the computer in question generally unstable, or only coming up with fs errors?


Thanks for the info - that was extremely helpful.

I've been using ext2 for /boot and ext3 for /root. I used to use reisferfs but at home I've set up all my machines to use ext2/3.

Maybe I'll go back to using Paul Reiser - I mean, reiserfs. :P

What has been happening is that portage will install the first few packages and then stop because the fs is suddenly "read-only". Everything else runs and works.

I've been trying different configs while rebuilding this machine and haven't had this problem on the last couple of rebuild attempts. Knock on wood. Or maybe knock on the computer's casing.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:11 pm    Post subject: questions Reply with quote

Hey, Pappy, I've just read through this thread and I love your idea of a central, stable set of kernel seeds for Gentoo users. I've been tweaking kernel configs for years, but I'm always hoping to learn more about this process, especially since kernel config options change constantly. Which is a good thing. :)

I've been comparing my latest kernel ( gentoo-sources-2.6.27-r8 ) config to your gentoo-sources-2.6.27-r8-x86-05 seed, and I've got a few questions for you. Thanks for helping educate all of us !

I've read the help blurbs in "make menuconfig" about these options, but I'm still not always clear what they do.

1) I've never enabled this option, what do you use this for ?
Code:

CONFIG_RELAY=y


2) These seem like debug options. What benefit do they offer in your seed kernels ?
Code:

CONFIG_PROFILING=y
CONFIG_MARKERS=y
CONFIG_KPROBES=y


3) You've changed the following options from the kernel defaults.
Code:

# CONFIG_IRQBALANCE is not set
CONFIG_PHYSICAL_ALIGN=0x200000

Did you change them for better performance or more stability ? Or some other reason ?


Thanks, Pappy. I'm sure I'll have more questions before I'm done. :)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

audiodef wrote:
pappy_mcfae wrote:

Of course, that doesn't help you, so answer the following, please: Which fs? How do the errors occur (lockup or just running)? How new is the hard drive on said machine? Is the computer in question generally unstable, or only coming up with fs errors?


Thanks for the info - that was extremely helpful.

I've been using ext2 for /boot and ext3 for /root. I used to use reisferfs but at home I've set up all my machines to use ext2/3.

Maybe I'll go back to using Paul Reiser - I mean, reiserfs. :P

What has been happening is that portage will install the first few packages and then stop because the fs is suddenly "read-only". Everything else runs and works.

I've been trying different configs while rebuilding this machine and haven't had this problem on the last couple of rebuild attempts. Knock on wood. Or maybe knock on the computer's casing.


What gives me pause is having the file systems change from R/W to R/O. I've read that happens, but I don't know the particulars. My first Slackware install was with ext3, and other than having to fsck itself every 30 reboots (or so), I found it to be workable, and stable. It never changed to R/O just because it could.

The last time I used ext3 was setting up bam-bam. I changed back to resierfs because I didn't like ext3's performance.

I'd hate to advise you to change FS just to find out it's something like a bad cable or the like. Therefore, my first suggestion is to make sure that the cables (power and data) to the hard drive are stable and firm. If you're using SATA drives, this is even more important. Then look in the forum for file systems that change themselves to R/O. I saw a few threads on this recently, so I'm sure there is a fix for this. It may involve the kernel, but I doubt it.

I wish I could be more informative. :/

Blessed be!
Pappy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae wrote:

I wish I could be more informative. :/


No, that's quite alright. I really appreciate the information you're giving me already.

Since I'm twiddling with Mozart here, still in the set-up stage, it wasn't any big deal to go back and switch to reiserfs. At this point, I think it was the repeated power-offs that messed up the ext3 fs, and since I've gotten a feel for what drivers need to be installed (using your seeds) on this machine, I think it will be ok now.

You're a walking library. :wink: Do you do this for a living?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: questions Reply with quote

jongeek wrote:
Hey, Pappy, I've just read through this thread and I love your idea of a central, stable set of kernel seeds for Gentoo users. I've been tweaking kernel configs for years, but I'm always hoping to learn more about this process, especially since kernel config options change constantly. Which is a good thing. :)

I've been comparing my latest kernel ( gentoo-sources-2.6.27-r8 ) config to your gentoo-sources-2.6.27-r8-x86-05 seed, and I've got a few questions for you. Thanks for helping educate all of us !

I've read the help blurbs in "make menuconfig" about these options, but I'm still not always clear what they do.

1) I've never enabled this option, what do you use this for ?
Code:

CONFIG_RELAY=y


Actually, that setting is going to be shutoff in the next iteration. I had it set up for those who might use the option. However, I've heard and read of few using it. To directly answer your question, this was a leftover when I was working with catalyst. It just sort of stuck as the kernel seeds have evolved.

Quote:
2) These seem like debug options. What benefit do they offer in your seed kernels ?
Code:

CONFIG_PROFILING=y
CONFIG_MARKERS=y
CONFIG_KPROBES=y

If I said, "I don't know," would you still respect me? :)

Those are settings that have come along for the ride. I changed them some time back, and they've just stuck. They are, at least, benign.

Quote:
3) You've changed the following options from the kernel defaults.
Code:

# CONFIG_IRQBALANCE is not set
CONFIG_PHYSICAL_ALIGN=0x200000

Did you change them for better performance or more stability ? Or some other reason ?


Thanks, Pappy. I'm sure I'll have more questions before I'm done. :)


I thought IRQ balance was set. I'll have to recheck that. If it was turned off, that one got away from me. It's supposed to be on. I know it's on for both of my multi-core systems. That was a mistake if it's not right.

The idea of having the kernel squirming around and moving itself always left me feeling a bit uneasy. I have to assume it's good for something, because my machines, and the machines of those whom I've setup seem to be running in a very stable fashion.

Thanks for the questions. I hope my answers don't leave me looking like a total putz. hehehe

;)

Blessed be!
Pappy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: questions Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae wrote:
Thanks for the questions. I hope my answers don't leave me looking like a total putz. hehehe

Not at all !! I don't know the answers either. :)

I've already incorporated a few changes from your config into my kernel with excellent results, and I'm compiling another one, with even more changes, as I type ! Thanks ....
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome. Considering the fight I'm having trying to figure out drupal, it's nice to know that the knowledge I already have is useful. It's even better to not have all the answers. That makes life infinitely more interesting.

I'm glad that my seeds are helpful to someone who has probably been at it longer than I. That makes me feel good.

Blessed be!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pappy!

I followed your advice and used your 2.6.27-r9 seed for my laptop. I made the same changes as in the 2.6.28 seed and used only vesafb tis time.
So now the screen is no longer black but the kernel does not boot. It seems that it does not do anything at all. The leds start flashing right away and there is no output.
How can I get information about what the problem is?

The new config
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tariella,

The flashing LEDs indicate a kernel panic.
This tells that grub loaded a kernel and the kernel tried to start, otherwise it could not panic.

The panic should have left a message on the screen that gives a hint about the problem.
The framebuffer display is only switched in partway through the boot process.
I suspect you do not have the ordinary text kernel driver built in, so the display is blank after the grub menu is away and before the framebuffer driver is used.

Your panic message may well be there but the kernel is unable to display it.

Rebuild your kernel with the old console driver until we get the panic sorted out.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rebuilt the kernel and was finally able to see what the problem was: The root device was renamed from hda3 to sda3.
As soon as I fixed this in the grub config all started well.

The kernel is booting lightning-fast now. I'm very impressed.

Thanks for the help.

Keep up the great work, Pappy. :D
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll do that! I'm glad you sorted it out.

Blessed be!
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:36 pm    Post subject: A Better Kernel Device Guide Reply with quote

Someone else may have already beaten me to this suggestion, or I may have missed it in this very (and very long) thread.

On http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/, info for drivers seems to me a bit sketchy. If somewhere there isn't a more detailed program to turn lspci -n into detailed guidelines for kernel drivers, maybe we, on these forums, could start building one.

I'm thinking of, for example, rather than being given "intelfb" under drivers, which I understand but which would discombobulate people trying to kick their Windoze addictions, a program that says something like "This device makes use of framebuffer (link to what the heck framebuffer means). If you intend to have only a console and no GUI for your system, then to go Device Drivers -> Graphics -> AGP and select WhateverItIs, and you should be all set. If you intend to use a desktop environment such as Gnome or KDE, you should, in addition, set Options "NoAccel" "True" and Options "Legacy3D" "False" in your xorg.conf after compiling your desktop environment and xorg".

And so on and so forth. In other words, make it highly functional, very complete, and accessible to those on the layman level while not being insultingly retarded.

Also, many options in the machines I build have nothing to say about kernel drivers on this page at all. USB devices are also not supported by this page.

So... unless I'm just repeating old hat, who's for building A Better Kernel Device Guide?

I'm willing to donate server resources to this. I have a shared hosting Linux account with MySQL and PHP.

P.S. I posted this here because I really like what Pappy's doing with the kernel seeds, and I think this kind of thing would be a great addition to that effort.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Debian site seems to work fine. There is someone who cares for the database. You might be able to get it and reconfigure it to be a little more concise. I"ve never really had a problem with it, but I'm all for getting more people involved in Linux. It makes getting rid of Microsoft products easier, and that's good as far as I can see.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it does work, but for me it often has no suggestions at all for drivers when I use it. That's the biggest part that concerns me. Also, it's inability to work with lsusb output is frustrating.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

audiodef,

lspci -k will tell what module is being used for a device by the running kernel.
lspci does not help with all devices nor with all options for all devices.

e.g. knowing you need snd-intel-hda is only the first of many steps to getting Intel High Definition Audio working.
How do you cover them?
The answer is in /usr/src/linux/Documentation/

I don't think we need new information, maybe an index to what we already have.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have uploaded the .configs for 2.6.28-gentoo-r3 in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. A day late, but worth the wait...:)

A slogan a day keeps illiteracy at bay.

Blessed be!
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just in time for the spring equinox...ok a day or two early...I've uploaded .configs for 2.6.27.20 and 2.6.28.8 in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. Enjoy!

Blessed be!
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And as a post equinox plus, I have just uploaded new .configs for 2.6.27-gentoo-r10 and 2.6.28-gentoo-r4. Enjoy!

Blessed be!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got new kernels coming out of my ears. Not really, but I do have .configs for 2.6.27.21 and 2.6.28.8 AND, at long last, 2.6.29...before it hits portage! I love it when that happens.

As usual, they're available in x86 and x86_64 flavors. Enjoy!

Blessed be!
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just uploaded .configs for 2.6.29-gentoo in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. Enjoy!

Blessed be!
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whew! Just taking a moment to catch my breath. I had to pick through gen-tosh's hard drive so I could salvage the data. While none of it was corrupted...yay...I had to do some twisting and bending to get the windoze install to want to play like it used to. I don't look at it as I lost a computer, I look at it as I freed the newest hard drive for a faster machine. Now, bam-bam runs with all kinds of room, even if it is in a physically smaller package. It's nice to have a laptop to desktop PATA adapter!

Anyway, I've finally finished the .configs for 2.6.29.1 and 2.6.29-gentoo-r1 in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. I also reconfigured the 2.6.29 and 2.6.29-gentoo settings as the mistakes were numerous. I'm sure they still worked, but they weren't consistent with the rest of the kernel settings.

Blessed be!
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