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Letharion
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting information. Thank you.
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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to Letharion and Neo2 for the detailed feedback. :D
Upon reflection, I guess I tend to agree- constantly recompiling gcc pre9999 is probably overkill. Indeed, I haven't done so in weeks, and haven't had any problems with keeping this kde-live Gentoo ~x86 install in current sync.

My only other thought would be that after rebuilding a more current gcc, I would add gcc and maybe libtool to Neo2's 2nd step (essentially the classic Gentoo "toolchain" rebuild), as I have always felt it was prudent to have a new gcc rebuilt with itself, especially since I have always run ~x86 and ~amd64 systems.
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Letharion
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure I follow that last part. I thought that Neos linked post was clear on that gcc bootstraps itself during recompile, and it is completely unnecessary to compile it more than once?
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Neo2
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Letharion is right.. quoting the GCC Docs found in gcc 4.4.1 tarball (gcc-4.4.1/INSTALL/build.html):
Quote:
Building a native compiler
For a native build, the default configuration is to perform a 3-stage bootstrap of the compiler when ‘make’ is invoked. This will build the entire GCC system and ensure that it compiles itself correctly. It can be disabled with the --disable-bootstrap parameter to ‘configure’, but bootstrapping is suggested because the compiler will be tested more completely and could also have better performance.
The bootstrapping process will complete the following steps:
- Build tools necessary to build the compiler.
- Perform a 3-stage bootstrap of the compiler. This includes building three times the target tools for use by the compiler such as binutils (bfd, binutils, gas, gprof, ld, and opcodes) if they have been individually linked or moved into the top level GCC source tree before configuring.
- Perform a comparison test of the stage2 and stage3 compilers.
- Build runtime libraries using the stage3 compiler from the previous step.

About libtool, well, honestly I never thought about it. I usually assume that if my system is not broken it means the old system will work well enough to produce good code for the new one. The only "forced upgrade" is the change of the compiler if upgrading to a new version, of course.
When I was a newbie I tended to recompile world 3 times just to be sure... then came some thinking and searching (due to the time spent and the electric bill), and I eventually reached the same conclusions of the thread I quoted.
When you are new to Gentoo you tend to think: "wow, that's great! lets compile everything from scratch!", you make endless tests, merges and so on. After a month you begin realizing that it felt good to experiment, but you need to settle on a "stable" system. After ~1 year of playing and thinking and smashing your head on weird errors, the only thing you think is: "the less I can do the better it is". So you begin avoiding every single extra merge, learn to setup USE flags before compiling, see which dependencies pull in, teach make.conf to zip bin packages just in case, remove any extra feature you don't really need, etc....
I'm not forcing you to use my steps, I'm just saying that after 6 years of Gentoo, I'm so sick of reemerging that I want to stick with the very minimum. I actually love the flexibility of Gentoo anyway :wink:

Cheers,
Neo2
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Letharion
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, I went through a similar learning experience.
However, I didn't get very deep, and just stuck with the emwrap script, which I assumed what pretty much "right".
Maybe not so.

While I'm typing this, I realise that I don't really do what I said before.
I don't do emerge -e system between toolchain and world. Not sure why I got that in there.
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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah- I agree Neo2 is obviously right about gcc, and his general reemerging philosophy.

Over the years I have also tried to eliminate as much compiling as possible, along with getting USE flags just right. My thinking about rebuilding gcc with itself is apparently not needed. I guess it was just a hold-over from when I first learned about rebuilding the tool-chain years ago from this forum. At that time, I had really slow hardware, and was very concerned about squeezing every bit of performance I could out of it. That was my main motivation for adopting Gentoo.

As for libtool, I included it as it was usually mentioned in posts about tool-chain rebuilds, and as a possible fix for various compiling problems I've encountered over the years. At the time, it seemed to make sense.
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randomlychosen
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

devsk wrote:
I can attest to what randomlychosen has to say. I have seen 4.4 produce larger and slower code than 4.2 (4.3 was slower and larger than 4.2 but only slightly).


Thanks!
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randomlychosen
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Letharion wrote:
Would it be acceptable/reasonable/meningfull to run benchmarks in a VM?
Or would the VM for some reason cause the benchmarks to be useful only inside another VM? Which in itself would also be useful, considering how much of the world is going virtual.


You should avoid running IO bound applications in VM environment as most VM cache disk accesses (in VM I could get up to 1TB/sec read/write performance). Other than that all other tests should run just fine (with a constant performance penalty ~3-20%). The last but not the least - don't forget to disable CPU power savings (or rmmod all cpufreq* modules).

So, if you have time and resources to run these tests in a VM, then I'd be glad to see these results.
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Growlizing
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rebuilding atm (529/1021) with -fgraphite and -floop*. Had 3 fails so far, one caused by a portage 2.2_rc35 bug, one by glibc-2.10 and boost fails.
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Basso Buffo
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Growlizing -- If you are using an SVN snapshot of GCC, your boost fail may be related to the issue I documented here: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-5752706.html#5752706
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darklegion
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet (a search thread function sure would help!) but wine won't compile with gcc-4.4.1 with -ftree-vectorize enabled.Which works fine under gcc-4.3.3.-ftree-vectorize gives a large compile time performance boost, so it's a shame that it's broken.
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asturm
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of gcc-4.4.2_pre9999, wine-1.1.28 does compile with ftree-vectorize. But the resulting build is severely broken as I already reported here: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=283183

Funny though that playing (not installing) Diablo 2 worked, and was stable. So it seems some vital part of wine is broken by ftree-vectorize, but not on the whole.
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darklegion
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I meant to write that it causes crashes, not that it doesn't compile.
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rhill
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cleaned up the svn ebuilds and moved them to the toolchain overlay tonight. To be sure you're getting the right ebuilds add toolchain after gcc-porting in make.conf. To be consistent with the snapshots, you'll now have to export I_PROMISE_TO_SUPPLY_PATCHES_WITH_BUGS before it'll let you build.

Let me know if you guys have any problems.

edit: (BTW, 4.5 currently fails bootstrap. This is an upstream bug, not a issue with the ebuild.)
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regomodo
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought i'd just post my testing results.

amd64 build. gcc-4.4.1, glibc-2.10.1 *FLAGS="-O2 -pipe -march=native -fgraphite -floop-interchange -floop-strip-mine -floop-block"

kde-meta-4.3.1 just built fine and the app's i've used so far work
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rhill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can probably drop -fgraphite, there's no such flag. :wink:
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kernelOfTruth
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirtyepic wrote:
you can probably drop -fgraphite, there's no such flag. :wink:


there was - but it's pointless since afaik it doesn't produce any output / code

here you go:

http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2008-10/msg00496.html
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platojones
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the latest on gcc-4.4? I'm merging it now and thinking about rebuilding everything when I'm done. Anybody using it and running into issues?
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Tom_
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My whole system (i mean system and world) was compiled with Gcc-4.4 a few weeks ago, and everything ran almost without trouble!

I don't remember precisely which ebuilds failed to build, but there weren't a lot. ;)
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platojones
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds good...I just rebuilt and got a few failures...not gcc related though. Thanks.
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keet
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been working fine for me, too. I recorded the packages that failed, and in (I think) every case, I just upgraded to a higher version, and they worked fine. There were only ten at most out of 800 anyway.
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SamuliSuominen
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If latest version of some package doesn't work, PLEASE open a bug for it in https://bugs.gentoo.org because everything should be fixed by now. And we can't fix problems we don't know about.
Just make sure you really test the latest version first.

Thanks! 8)
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keet
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will once I am back to using my desktop computer on which it is installed. Also, it was several weeks, maybe a couple months, ago when I actually upgraded, so by now perhaps the ones that I upgraded are considered stable. I'll check when I have time.
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asturm
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssuominen wrote:
If latest version of some package doesn't work, PLEASE open a bug for it in https://bugs.gentoo.org because everything should be fixed by now. And we can't fix problems we don't know about.

I really would, but everything compiles fine. ;)
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cruzki123
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I think it's time to try new gcc :)

has someone used the new optimized interface that it's include in gcc?

http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/LinkTimeOptimization#head-3b5b9b55878c408b99dd3c100ac32cae53e01714

I think we need libelf v0.8.12 (with isn't in portage get) and a ussing 4.5.0_pre9999 build after 3-0ct.
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