Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
What is funtoo?
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

 
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Unsupported Software
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
12bore
n00b
n00b


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject: What is funtoo? Reply with quote

First off, I am a gentoo newb, but have some experience of other flavours of linux.

I have installed funtoo on both my desktop and my netbook, and both are functioning well - I need to do a little more tweaking on the netbook.
I understand that funtoo is git based, and that it contains both the funtoo tree and the gentoo tree. Up to now, I have exclusively used the funtoo branch for installing and updating. However, I want to update Xfce to 4.6, and this hasn't appeared in the funtoo tree. So today, I checked out the gentoo.org branch for the first time, did a emerge --sync, and then did a emerge -pvuD world. Lo and behold, there were lots of updates, including Xfce 4.6. But there are also updates to things like bash, binutils and gcc, to name a few. How come these are not in the funtoo.org tree? Are these not quite important? These would be needed in making the stage tarballs, so should they not be in the funtoo tree? Several things would be downgraded - baselayout, perl, libperl,openssh and portage.

So I am now in a state of mass confusion - what is funtoo and why (how) do you use it? It looks like I will have to mix and match between gentoo tree and funtoo tree to keep a updated system, and this will also mean having to put lots of things in package.mask. Should I just use the funtoo stage tarball and then exclusively use the gentoo.org git branch? It appears that only a few ebuilds are more up to date in the funtoo.org branch.
Could these not be in a "funtoo overlay"? Or is being git based one of the main reasons for funtoo. As I say, I am a confused newb.

I am probably a prime example of the newb diving in head first in to something he doesn't understand, but when I was first reading the forums to learn a bit about gentoo before I installed, funtoo was mentioned and recommended quite a lot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 43599
Location: 56N 3W

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12bore,

Daniel Robbins (drobbins on IRC) is the founder of both Gentoo and Funtoo.
I believe that Funtoo was started by putting the Gentoo tree into git as git makes it easier to open up the tree to contributions and provide some editorial control on what users can pull from the git repository.

If you want to use Gentoo, install Gentoo. If you want to use Funtoo, install Funtoo. The different distros are very similar but they do not get new packages or version updates at the same time.

Gentoo used to have most of the development in the Portage tree, where packages fell into three groups, stable, testing and hard masked. You could and still can use hard masked packages if you want to. In the last year or so, Gentoo development has moved into overlays and there are lots of them in different version management systems, CVS and git being just two. Overlays are just a different solution to the editorial control provided by git. Things get developed in the overlay, where its up to the overlay owner who has commit access, then moved to the main tree later.

emerge layman if you want to look at many of the overlays. There are many more, not in the list too.
Ask in irc.freenode.net#funtoo for more detial.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
12bore
n00b
n00b


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info.
I know they are both very similar distros, but I can't see what the significant differences are, besides funtoo being git based.
With funtoo, you get both a funtoo git branch and a gentoo git branch, so why would you choose to install "straight" gentoo? What does gentoo do differently?

Or is that like asking why some people prefer tea, others prefer coffee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 43599
Location: 56N 3W

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12bore,

I've not installed Funtoo. Funtoo started from Gentoo one day.
The two are similar but diverging.

I suggest to pick one or the other purely for support reasons. Its very difficult to support a mix and match distro.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
d2_racing
Bodhisattva
Bodhisattva


Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 13047
Location: Ste-Foy,Canada

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funtoo use the sunrise overlay and the testing arch tree from Gentoo.

So basically, you may end up with a Funtoo box even if you have a Gentoo ~arch but you use in a day to day the sunrise overlay.

The only difference is maybe 50 packages and also that Funtoo use GIT.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thewtex
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funtoo pulls in gentoo changes + more, but you may see a delay of a day or two before the gentoo changes get pulled in. I am unsure why you do not see xfce 4.6 -- may want to ask on #funtoo as Neddy says.

Funtoo is gentoo + more. You will be able to easily make contibutions and eventually easily grab contributions.

Switching between the gentoo.org/funtoo.org branches for what you use may not work well. The should not be anything in gentoo.org that isn't in funtoo.org, but if there is, you can create your own branch and add it there. Intructions for working with funtoo are on the github.com funtoo/portage wiki
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yngwin
Retired Dev
Retired Dev


Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4572
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12bore wrote:
so why would you choose to install "straight" gentoo? What does gentoo do differently?

With "straight" Gentoo, you would get Gentoo support. Gentoo also has this big community (IRC, forums, MLs), so it is easy to find people able to help you. But Gentoo developers and users probably won't know about what Funtoo does differently, so it will be harder to help you, and we can't officially support it.
_________________
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln
Free Culture | Defective by Design | EFF
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
12bore
n00b
n00b


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I now realise that although they may both appear very similar, they are two seperate and distinct distros. I misunderstood the relationship.
#funtoo on irc is quite useful.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rmh3093
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 06 Aug 2003
Posts: 2138
Location: Albany, NY

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

12bore wrote:
Yeah, I now realise that although they may both appear very similar, they are two seperate and distinct distros. I misunderstood the relationship.
#funtoo on irc is quite useful.


they are not separate distros.... funtoo IS gentoo
_________________
Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SlashBeast
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 2843

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rmh3093 wrote:
12bore wrote:
Yeah, I now realise that although they may both appear very similar, they are two seperate and distinct distros. I misunderstood the relationship.
#funtoo on irc is quite useful.


they are not separate distros.... funtoo IS gentoo

++
_________________
BitBucket -- better-initramfs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
d2_racing
Bodhisattva
Bodhisattva


Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 13047
Location: Ste-Foy,Canada

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if you say that, then the only difference is this : Gentoo use the portage tree with cvs and Funtoo use the portage tree with git.

And for the record, I agree, because I did that last monday.

I installed a Gentoo testing box with a Stage 3 ~amd64 from Funtoo but I used the current Gentoo snapshot from the funtoo.org website.

So basically, I installed a Funtoo box but I downgraded it to a Gentoo ~amd64 box.

I only downgraded 3 packages, so it's not a big deal.

You want to know why I did this ? Because I didn't want to migrate from baselayout 1.x to 2.x and also I didn't want to install a box with GCC 4.1 and then upgraded to GCC 4.4.3.

And for the toolchain I did this :
Code:
# emerge -aev @system @system
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yngwin
Retired Dev
Retired Dev


Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4572
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rmh3093 wrote:
12bore wrote:
Yeah, I now realise that although they may both appear very similar, they are two seperate and distinct distros. I misunderstood the relationship.
#funtoo on irc is quite useful.


they are not separate distros.... funtoo IS gentoo

No. Funtoo is not Gentoo. Strictly speaking it is based on Gentoo. Yes, for a large part they are the same, but there are differences. Why else would Funtoo release its own stages and its own portage branch? Of course, anyone is free to use what he wants.
_________________
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln
Free Culture | Defective by Design | EFF
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
d2_racing
Bodhisattva
Bodhisattva


Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 13047
Location: Ste-Foy,Canada

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yngwin wrote:
No. Funtoo is not Gentoo. Strictly speaking it is based on Gentoo. Yes, for a large part they are the same, but there are differences. Why else would Funtoo release its own stages and its own portage branch? Of course, anyone is free to use what he wants.


The Funtoo tree is the testing Gentoo tree git version and also they have already builtin the sunrise overlay inside it.

The main idea behind Funtoo was when Gentoo didn't release a single Stage 3 for a year or so, Daniel Robbins started to release them with the Metro project.

Nowadays he releases the "Gentoo" Stage 3 stable and he also release the "Funtoo" Stage 3 ~arch too.

He also release some portage snapshot and also the git version of the Gentoo tree(Funtoo snapshot).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tin
Guru
Guru


Joined: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 305
Location: Namur, Belgium

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am very interested in that topic, because I did not find any clear funtoo definition anywhere else.

So if I understood correctly (which I doubt lol),

1) Funtoo is a Gentoo with stages build more frequently (and more archs)
=> Interesting to reduce installation time only

2) Funtoo update is based on git instead of cvs
=> I don't know the difference but I guess it is interesting

3) Funtoo stable packages version is quite aligned with Gentoo unstable
=> Interesting if Funtoo stable is more stable than Gentoo unstable or for Funtoo unstable if you like to be on the edge.

4) Funtoo is used by less people than Gentoo
=> support could be sometimes less easy


I don't want to start a troll of course, but I would like to have the comments on these points (especially 2 and 3) from people using or having tried Funtoo.

Oh by the way, is kde 3.5 available anymore in Funtoo stable ?
_________________
Tin, the gentoobie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
unK
l33t
l33t


Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 769

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have moved to git portage tree yesterday because I was slowly starting to be pissed off at the speed of rsync and also switched to funtoo branch to see, how it differs from gentoo one (and also try something new). Well, I am running ~amd64 and the only difference I've noticed that emerge wanted to downgrade openrc and udev from 0.4.3-r2 to 0.4.2-r1 and 141 to 135-r6 version respectively, also a few packages have different default useflags set.

Quote:
Oh by the way, is kde 3.5 available anymore in Funtoo stable ?

yes.
_________________
ncmpcpp - featureful ncurses based MPD client inspired by ncmpc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
d2_racing
Bodhisattva
Bodhisattva


Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 13047
Location: Ste-Foy,Canada

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin wrote:

1) Funtoo is a Gentoo with stages build more frequently (and more archs)
=> Interesting to reduce installation time only


Yes, since the autobuild are not official in Gentoo, they are not there inside the handbook.


Tin wrote:

2) Funtoo update is based on git instead of cvs
=> I don't know the difference but I guess it is interesting


Yes, git is faster then cvs and it's easier for the devs, as far as I read on the net.

Tin wrote:

3) Funtoo stable packages version is quite aligned with Gentoo unstable
=> Interesting if Funtoo stable is more stable than Gentoo unstable or for Funtoo unstable if you like to be on the edge.


Funtoo Testing is based on the Gentoo unstable with the addition of the Sunrise project directly inside the Funtoo tree Testing.

Tin wrote:

4) Funtoo is used by less people than Gentoo
=> support could be sometimes less easy


It depends, since they use the same tree, sometimes the bug is there inside the Gentoo tree and the Funtoo tree and the Gentoo devs fix the bug, the Funtoo tree gets the patch automagically.
Also, if you have a Funtoo bug, then you can ask Daniel Robbins directly inside the #Funtoo channel on IRC.

Finally, a lot of top guns Gentoo devs work with Daniel Robbins directly, so the line is very thin.
For example, emerge is compatible with the Gentoo tree and the Funtoo git version automatically since Zac Medico patched the portage code to be compatible. So, there a lot of colaboration.

Tin wrote:

I don't want to start a troll of course, but I would like to have the comments on these points (especially 2 and 3) from people using or having tried Funtoo.


I tested Metro 1.2 for a couple of months and you should ask DestroyFx from the Gentoo-Quebec.org forum, since he is a Funtoo Dev.

Tin wrote:

Oh by the way, is kde 3.5 available anymore in Funtoo stable ?


Yes :P
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
asturm
Developer
Developer


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 7115
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d2_racing wrote:
So basically, I installed a Funtoo box but I downgraded it to a Gentoo ~amd64 box.

I only downgraded 3 packages, so it's not a big deal.

You want to know why I did this ? Because I didn't want to migrate from baselayout 1.x to 2.x and also I didn't want to install a box with GCC 4.1 and then upgraded to GCC 4.4.3.

That's exactly the reason I did the same. Except I then decided to not make the 'switch' 'back' to Gentoo yet, for the beauty of portage in git. And isn't official portage also heading that way?

'Funtoo' doesn't feel any different except that it's sometimes a bit annoying to wait for packages to appear which had already entered portage days before. Well, for important packages I'm keeping my own overlay anyway, for some time now.
_________________
backend.cpp:92:2: warning: #warning TODO - this error message is about as useful as a cooling unit in the arctic


Last edited by asturm on Mon May 11, 2009 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
d2_racing
Bodhisattva
Bodhisattva


Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 13047
Location: Ste-Foy,Canada

PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know :P
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yngwin
Retired Dev
Retired Dev


Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4572
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d2_racing wrote:
Tin wrote:
1) Funtoo is a Gentoo with stages build more frequently (and more archs)
=> Interesting to reduce installation time only

Yes, since the autobuild are not official in Gentoo, they are not there inside the handbook.

Actually, the autobuild stages and CDs are the only officially supported install method for Gentoo now. It's just that the handbook isn't up to date yet. So the argument that Funtoo releases stages more frequently doesn't hold anymore.

d2_racing wrote:
Tin wrote:
2) Funtoo update is based on git instead of cvs
=> I don't know the difference but I guess it is interesting

Yes, git is faster then cvs and it's easier for the devs, as far as I read on the net.

The user gets his portage tree through rsync, so the speed difference isn't as much. This shouldn't be an argument for the "normal" user.

d2_racing wrote:
Tin wrote:
3) Funtoo stable packages version is quite aligned with Gentoo unstable
=> Interesting if Funtoo stable is more stable than Gentoo unstable or for Funtoo unstable if you like to be on the edge.

Funtoo Testing is based on the Gentoo unstable with the addition of the Sunrise project directly inside the Funtoo tree Testing.

I don't know exactly what Funtoo's policy and naming scheme is here. But you get more or less the same in Gentoo by using Gentoo's testing branch (~arch) and adding the Sunrise overlay. There's nothing extraordinary to that.

Tin wrote:
4) Funtoo is used by less people than Gentoo
=> support could be sometimes less easy

This in my personal opinion is the crux of the matter. Funtoo is a very small distribution, and while there are some dedicated people working on it, support will be more limited than on Gentoo. Also, I hear that things that have been fixed in Gentoo arrive with some delay in Funtoo. And as I said above:
Quote:
With "straight" Gentoo, you would get Gentoo support. Gentoo also has this big community (IRC, forums, MLs), so it is easy to find people able to help you. But Gentoo developers and users probably won't know about what Funtoo does differently, so it will be harder to help you, and we can't officially support it.

_________________
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln
Free Culture | Defective by Design | EFF
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
d2_racing
Bodhisattva
Bodhisattva


Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 13047
Location: Ste-Foy,Canada

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yngwin wrote:
Actually, the autobuild stages and CDs are the only officially supported install method for Gentoo now. It's just that the handbook isn't up to date yet. So the argument that Funtoo releases stages more frequently doesn't hold anymore.


In fact, but I don't know why the handbook is not updated.

yngwin wrote:

I don't know exactly what Funtoo's policy and naming scheme is here. But you get more or less the same in Gentoo by using Gentoo's testing branch (~arch) and adding the Sunrise overlay. There's nothing extraordinary to that.


In fact Funtoo = Gentoo ~arch + Sunrise by default
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yngwin
Retired Dev
Retired Dev


Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4572
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d2_racing wrote:
yngwin wrote:
Actually, the autobuild stages and CDs are the only officially supported install method for Gentoo now. It's just that the handbook isn't up to date yet. So the argument that Funtoo releases stages more frequently doesn't hold anymore.

In fact, but I don't know why the handbook is not updated.

As far as I understand, that's a question of lack of manpower.

Edit: see http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-doc/msg_3bd50f99c4ac9e5f60a9b2407653a681.xml and replies
and https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=260403
_________________
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln
Free Culture | Defective by Design | EFF
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
d2_racing
Bodhisattva
Bodhisattva


Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 13047
Location: Ste-Foy,Canada

PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see that, I tought that the French handbook was not up to date, but now I see that the English and all the others that need to be updated.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Unsupported Software All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum