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cheater1034
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:58 pm    Post subject: ZEN GIT Down, Website Down - Here's Why! Reply with quote

STOP discussion in this thread, please go here: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=6016406

Hi guys, i thought i would like you all to know something.

The website currently 404s, the irc channel is a wreck (our new one is on RIZON), and the git trees have probably been deleted remotely and access revoked.

He has decided that he doesn't like being part of a project that makes joint decisions - he needed to be able to make every decision related to the project himself. He snapped today and everything was revoked. Luckily there is a chance of getting it all back online soon (except for the website, it will take a bit of time to re-write all the content that was lost)

I know this is a very poor time for this to happen since zen has only been thriving since this fall with support from many people, even kernel developers.

I know this is a big set back for the progress we've been making - and it will significantly set back the efforts we've been making to get zen towards portage inclusion - hopefully we won't be hindered too badly (especially if backups have been made - but that's not a very good certainty)

CC
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Sadako
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ouch, sorry to hear that.

Is this the same guy who caused similar problems with the einit project?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopeless wrote:
ouch, sorry to hear that.

Is this the same guy who caused similar problems with the einit project?


Yeah. We should hopefully be back online soon. We have git repos cloned locally, so no work is lost. The thing we are worried about most is the web site.

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cheater1034
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anybody wants a patch or anything in the mean time let me know - we have the git trees cloned locally and it can easily be provided.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: ZEN GIT Down, Website Down - Here's Why! (Internal Sabot Reply with quote

cheater1034 wrote:
Hi guys, i thought i would like you all to know something.

The website currently 404s, the irc channel is a wreck (our new one is on RIZON), and the git trees have probably been deleted remotely and access revoked.

This is all because of:
rmh3093 aka PuffTheMagic

He has decided that he doesn't like being part of a project that makes joint decisions - he needed to be able to make every decision related to the project himself. He snapped today and everything was deleted. Luckily there is a chance there are backups. If there are everything should be restored somewhat quickly.

Thanks, and sorry for this guys but it isn't any of our fault (except rmh)

I know this is a very poor time for this to happen since zen has only been thriving since this fall with support from many people, even kernel developers.

I know this is a big set back for the progress we've been making - and it will significantly set back the efforts we've been making to get zen towards portage inclusion - hopefully we won't be hindered too badly (especially if backups have been made - but that's not a very good certainty)

CC


All I did was turn things off (nothing was deleted) till we could settle the disagreements but since I am being flamed on the forums I can see that isn't going to happen. It appears Zen-Sources is now dead.
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Kollin
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

terrible... just terrible :?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zen-Sources it's NOT dead.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waninkoko wrote:
Zen-Sources it's NOT dead.


Well its not gonna be on zen-sources.org.... so if you have to change domains, may as well change names.
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Kollin
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zen-sorces.eu is available domain and costs 3 euros per year :roll:
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rmh3093 wrote:
Waninkoko wrote:
Zen-Sources it's NOT dead.


Well its not gonna be on zen-sources.org.... so if you have to change domains, may as well change names.


Why just don't transfer the domain to us?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guys please DON'T LET IT DIE because of any childish reasons (I'm not in the position to decide if they're childish since for that I know to less)

anyways - I'm sure the others would agree that: zen deserves better than that ! :(

if you need a locally cloned repo from yesterday I'd be willing to upload it somewhere (for zen-stable and zen) - just ask for it :)
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have both latest zen-stable.git and zen.stable git. Zen is not going anywhere, it's going to continue because _all_ the developers are still together (rmh wasn't really a developer anymore, he didn't commit a single thing for ages and gave no impression of wanting to work on zen in the future). I have uploaded latest 2.6.32-rc5-zen1 patch to ftp://dodo1122.co.uk/pub/2.6.32-rc5-zen1.patch.lzma if anyone wants it (applies to 2.6.32-rc5).

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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kernelOfTruth wrote:
guys please DON'T LET IT DIE


That's the great thing about distributed version control - you can't kill it as long as someone is using it. If zen was just another patchset, we'd all be pretty f'ed now.

Now I understand why rmh was always flaming people for posting on here instead of the zen-sources forums - he's a control freak.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant_P wrote:
kernelOfTruth wrote:
guys please DON'T LET IT DIE


That's the great thing about distributed version control - you can't kill it as long as someone is using it. If zen was just another patchset, we'd all be pretty f'ed now.

Now I understand why rmh was always flaming people for posting on here instead of the zen-sources forums - he's a control freak.


It was my (and waninkoko's) project... yes I was going to keep control over it. If they want to leave and start another project, thats fine with me.... I don't I flamed anyone for posting on here. I tried to get people to start posting on our website before so that people using other distros could see all the convos going on. But what ever, I have better things to do now than rice kernels.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waninkoko wrote:
rmh3093 wrote:
Waninkoko wrote:
Zen-Sources it's NOT dead.


Well its not gonna be on zen-sources.org.... so if you have to change domains, may as well change names.


Why just don't transfer the domain to us?


You guys left zens-sources not me... why would I give it over...
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have fun running it on your own, then? According to the commit log you've done nothing for about half a year.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant_P wrote:
Have fun running it on your own, then? According to the commit log you've done nothing for about half a year.


Im not denying that, everyone in the group has taken breaks that were that long or longer in the past.
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did those others also turn around and call it a "ricer kernel" after pulling the git repo?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, rmh3093, if you do not have the time to rice kernels why not just let the others do the job as they have been doing over the past six months. And might I add, that they have been doing a stellar job.

You have put it a lot of work in zen-sources on the past, we all know that, but if you currently do not have the time, then just let things continue as they are. Take a sabbatical, let others manage the stuff. Come back when you have time. :)

What really sucks is that this is all happening when zen-sources was close to inclusion in the portage. Is that what triggered this?
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rmh3093
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rahulthewall wrote:
Hey, rmh3093, if you do not have the time to rice kernels why not just let the others do the job as they have been doing over the past six months. And might I add, that they have been doing a stellar job.

You have put it a lot of work in zen-sources on the past, we all know that, but if you currently do not have the time, then just let things continue as they are. Take a sabbatical, let others manage the stuff. Come back when you have time. :)

What really sucks is that this is all happening when zen-sources was close to inclusion in the portage. Is that what triggered this?


This has nothing to do with portage. This all really started when I got a mail from the registrar saying the domain expired in 90 days (which was before the portage news). Waninkoko hadent contributed to the project in FOREVER. Dodo also wasnt contributing for a very long time. CC disappeared all summer. For these reasons I made it public in the channel that I didnt know if I should renew cause it didnt really seem like anyone had any interest any more. And even when I have taken breaks from kernel commits I was very active in the background with the website and git server and other general stuff that none of you see but still made us a successful collaborative patchset/kernel. But anyway, my doubts to the usage of zen-sources and the interest of the devs on any long term scale is what sparked the rebellion against me. I was letting everyone do their thing for the most part... Then in an attempt to start pushing me out, dodo and cc tried moving the IRC channel over to another server so that I wasnt the owner and so that they could phase me out. I wanted zen-sources to stay on an IRC network that was opensource centric. Many of the users on IRC (not just me) didnt want to move to another network. The other devs decided to leave freenode and keep changing channel topics saying things were moved when they were not, so I turned off the services so that they would come back and finish the discussions about things. CC then made this thread to bash me and make things public. This was all about them trying to gain power so the could push me out at some point.


.... so thats my side of the story. Believe it or not. I don't think there is any coming back from this.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You wanted to be the only one in control, we wanted things to be decided by the whole team. You did not like that. It started before the 'domain expires in 90 days' discussion. We just got tired of having to put up with your autocracy, especially since you started bashing zen-sources, calling it a ricer kernel, and not useful anymore.
We (me, waninkoko and cheater-conrad) are going to sort things out tomorrow at the latest.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rmh3093 wrote:
rahulthewall wrote:
Hey, rmh3093, if you do not have the time to rice kernels why not just let the others do the job as they have been doing over the past six months. And might I add, that they have been doing a stellar job.

You have put it a lot of work in zen-sources on the past, we all know that, but if you currently do not have the time, then just let things continue as they are. Take a sabbatical, let others manage the stuff. Come back when you have time. :)

What really sucks is that this is all happening when zen-sources was close to inclusion in the portage. Is that what triggered this?


This has nothing to do with portage. This all really started when I got a mail from the registrar saying the domain expired in 90 days (which was before the portage news). Waninkoko hadent contributed to the project in FOREVER. Dodo also wasnt contributing for a very long time. CC disappeared all summer. For these reasons I made it public in the channel that I didnt know if I should renew cause it didnt really seem like anyone had any interest any more. And even when I have taken breaks from kernel commits I was very active in the background with the website and git server and other general stuff that none of you see but still made us a successful collaborative patchset/kernel. But anyway, my doubts to the usage of zen-sources and the interest of the devs on any long term scale is what sparked the rebellion against me. I was letting everyone do their thing for the most part... Then in an attempt to start pushing me out, dodo and cc tried moving the IRC channel over to another server so that I wasnt the owner and so that they could phase me out. I wanted zen-sources to stay on an IRC network that was opensource centric. Many of the users on IRC (not just me) didnt want to move to another network. The other devs decided to leave freenode and keep changing channel topics saying things were moved when they were not, so I turned off the services so that they would come back and finish the discussions about things. CC then made this thread to bash me and make things public. This was all about them trying to gain power so the could push me out at some point.


.... so thats my side of the story. Believe it or not. I don't think there is any coming back from this.


Thanks for the explanation. Much appreciated. I can totally understand why it would be difficult to come back from this, but I hope a compromise is reached between the zen devs. Its just too great a project to die (or lose vaulable contributors).
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dodo1122 wrote:
You wanted to be the only one in control, we wanted things to be decided by the whole team. You did not like that. It started before the 'domain expires in 90 days' discussion. We just got tired of having to put up with your autocracy, especially since you started bashing zen-sources, calling it a ricer kernel, and not useful anymore.
We (me, waninkoko and cheater-conrad) are going to sort things out tomorrow at the latest.

dodo


When the co-founder leaves to hack on the Wii for over a year with little to no contact yeah, that leaves me to run the show. You have disappeared for long periods of time. Cheater is the newest of the group and has been doing the most work (as of late) but even he has disappeared with out really letting anyone know his intentions. I was the glue that has held this project together over the years not to mention the one that contacted waninkoko about creating a collabo patchset with me.... so yeah, certain aspects of the project I do/did want to keep control of cause it was my idea/project to begin with. So with that said... good luck keeping the project alive.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You disappeared for a very long periods of time before too, and we kept the project going just fine - there was always someone doing the work. This is one of the reasons why we have more than one developer. Its another thing 'holding the project together' when devs are not available and another trying to impose your views on others when everyone is there, wanting to do something. You obviously failed to recognize this. You cannot make us do things a certain way which we simply do not want to follow. Good example of this is you disabling force push and telling everyone not to use it because you don't want us to, even though we all were saying we need it. It took a long time and a lot of discussion to get it back, with you bitching about it every time we mentioned it and even kicking us from the irc channel. Finally you enabled it with a 'whatever, i don't fucking care' remark.
We all saw this coming for a long time now. This is simply the worst approach you can take when managing an open source project.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dodo1122 wrote:
You disappeared for a very long periods of time before too, and we kept the project going just fine - there was always someone doing the work. This is one of the reasons why we have more than one developer. Its another thing 'holding the project together' when devs are not available and another trying to impose your views on others when everyone is there, wanting to do something. You obviously failed to recognize this. You cannot make us do things a certain way which we simply do not want to follow. Good example of this is you disabling force push and telling everyone not to use it because you don't want us to, even though we all were saying we need it. It took a long time and a lot of discussion to get it back, with you bitching about it every time we mentioned it and even kicking us from the irc channel. Finally you enabled it with a 'whatever, i don't fucking care' remark.
We all saw this coming for a long time now. This is simply the worst approach you can take when managing an open source project.

dodo


I've never denied that i've taken breaks from working on the kernel but I've never disappeared from IRC and I've always remained in contact with you guys so I could make sure people who wanted to work could... I've been on IRC since day one. You and waninkoko and cheater on the other hand, cant even be contacted on IRC for months at a time. And with regards to the push -f stuff... back when we used githelper.sh the repo was jacked up many times due to push -f, which is why i blocked it, it was like that for months and months but you were away and inactive so you didnt notice.
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