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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The seed is only a .config file. Nothing more or less. It doesn't replace kernel source. It is a means to get a more stable kernel without having to know all that needs to be known to make a Linux machine run. You have to have the kernel source so you can make the kernel itself.

There are kernels available for gentoo-sources, hardened-sources, tuxonice sources, vanilla-sources, and zen-sources. They are currently available for kernel source versions from .26 to the present.

You will not need genkernel unless you absolutely must have a splashscreen. In that case, you would have to have genkernel set up an initrd/initramfs on the machine in question. Other than that, you should be able to use standard kernel source tools to get your finished kernel seed generated kernel.

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Moriah
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pappy: In another thread we were discussing suspend to ram and suspend to disk. There is was said that tuxonice was probably the best choice if this support was needed. Do you agree with this? If so, maybe I need to look into tuxonice. Where do I start? I have only used gentoo-sources for the past 5 years... :oops:
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throdon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok thank you. I think i have a case of too many reading sources. I just need to pick one(yours) and use it. thank you also for clearing up if I can use gentoo-sources. and I do not want to use genkernel. I want as lean and mean and stable, not everything under the sun. I also want to know what I am doing, not let genkernel hide it from me. I was looking at my other distro and they use genkernel and my grub.conf is freakin HUGE. this is not what I want for my gentoo. thank you for the seed.
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throdon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok I downloaded a seed with wget.

I am having trouble finding it.

in make menuconfig I went down to the bottom where it said load alternative config.

I am wondering should I " cd /usr/src/linux" before I use wget to download the seed. I am unsure if this will comprimise my kernel or if this is a directory that my kernel resides in or it's a directory that also holds the configs.

I already used wget once but cant find where it downloaded it. it said saving to " '2.6.31-gentoo-r6-x86_64-07.config"
so i am not sure where to find it, and how to load it in 'make menu config"
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moriah wrote:
Pappy: In another thread we were discussing suspend to ram and suspend to disk. There is was said that tuxonice was probably the best choice if this support was needed. Do you agree with this? If so, maybe I need to look into tuxonice. Where do I start? I have only used gentoo-sources for the past 5 years... :oops:


This depends on your needs. I personally don't use tuxonice sources. Three out of four of my machines run all the time. Therefore, tuxonice would be a waste. On this machine, while it does get booted daily, I have yet to find a reason to use tuxonice. I don't use hibernation or suspend with Windoze, so it follows, I won't use it for Gentoo, either.

In reality, this is all you get from tuxonice. Other than the expanded options to set up the hibernation and suspend, tuxonice sources are as vanilla as you can get.

Also, having roamed the forums, I have found that many people have issues with getting tuxonice to work. This may have changed with the most recent version of tuxonice, but I do not know for sure.

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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

throdon,

Wget the file you desire, copy it to your kernel source directory, and change the name of the file to .config, thusly:
Code:
cp <kernel_version>.config .config

where <kernel_version>.config is the name of the seed file you've downloaded.

That will change the name of the file to .config, and you can then use make menuconfig to add your devices.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok sweet thank you
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah... quick question...

Why is Kernel Seeds unsupported? Shouldn't this be in the Kernel section of the forum? I guess there is the possibility that maybe you did not add support for the right device, but doesn't the chance of failure exist to a greater or lesser degree in almost everything you do?
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cach0rr0
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

belikeyeshua wrote:
Ah... quick question...

Why is Kernel Seeds unsupported? Shouldn't this be in the Kernel section of the forum? I guess there is the possibility that maybe you did not add support for the right device, but doesn't the chance of failure exist to a greater or lesser degree in almost everything you do?


Presumably because it isn't a Gentoo project, but a topic that still warrants a sticky.

'course I reckon chunking together an ebuild for this and dumping on an overlay would be fairly trivial, but that'd be major overkill, and people would miss out on the most important part - the doc.
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cach0rr0 wrote:
belikeyeshua wrote:
Ah... quick question...

Why is Kernel Seeds unsupported? Shouldn't this be in the Kernel section of the forum? I guess there is the possibility that maybe you did not add support for the right device, but doesn't the chance of failure exist to a greater or lesser degree in almost everything you do?


Presumably because it isn't a Gentoo project, but a topic that still warrants a sticky.


True. Since this is a private project/venture, Gentoo Linux, while providing this lovely forum space, is not associated with the project at all. That puts it into the realm of unsupported software.

Quote:
'course I reckon chunking together an ebuild for this and dumping on an overlay would be fairly trivial, but that'd be major overkill, and people would miss out on the most important part - the doc.


Absolutely. The seventh settings page, networking, is currently being proofread. I am fairly sure it will be up in the next day or so. Settings page eight is going into production tomorrow. The kernel seed is as much about the site and its documentation as it is about the seed itself.

That said, I suppose if I were to ask someone nicely who does ebuilds better than I to look into the possibility of the creation of an ebuild, I might find a few interested parties.

Any interested parties? ;) PM please.

Blessed be!
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae wrote:
.

That said, I suppose if I were to ask someone nicely who does ebuilds better than I to look into the possibility of the creation of an ebuild, I might find a few interested parties.



And with an ebuild, you will need the pappy_mcfae overlay too :P
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Sunrise overlay would work - that might get Pappy sucked into being a gentoo developer too.
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see...this is all a grand scheme...

Cool. No one has ever schemed for me. hehehe

I did have a few ideas on the making of ebuilds/overlays for the seeds. I'm not quite sure how to make it all happen, but life is for learning.

As for being a developer, as soon as I get all the pages done for the site, I am going to finish off my quizzes. Somehow, the idea of being a Gentoo Dev has a nice ring to it. It might also let me offer up more help to keep the kde-sunset overlay open and moving forward.

Next to making functional kernels, I think working on KDE-3 might be a new calling. After all, it is my favorite desktop management system, so far, by far.

Blessed be!
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d2_racing
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae wrote:
Next to making functional kernels, I think working on KDE-3 might be a new calling. After all, it is my favorite desktop management system, so far, by far.


But as far as I know, KDE 3 code is long gone and the project is dead.
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Moriah
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's cool. I was first introduced to gentoo in 2004 because I wrote gemsvnc back in 2002, and somebody wrapped it up in an ebuild. I was following up on who was hitting my site looking for gemsvnc and found that a bunch of gentoo people had taken an interest in it. About the same time, Red Hat discontinued free support for RedHat9 with only one month's notice, so I decided it was time to find a truly free distro that was supported by volunteers. As I looked into gentoo, I liked what I saw, and here I still am today. :D

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. You can get gemsvnc here: http://www.elilabs.com/~rj/gemsvnc/
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just put up settings page 7. Enjoy!

Blessed be!
Pappy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d2_racing wrote:
pappy_mcfae wrote:
Next to making functional kernels, I think working on KDE-3 might be a new calling. After all, it is my favorite desktop management system, so far, by far.


But as far as I know, KDE 3 code is long gone and the project is dead.


Officially, yes, KDE-3 is dead upstream. However, this is Gentoo. That means someone made a lovely overlay with everything one would need to keep KDE-3 running. Believe it or not, there is even activity on the overlay.

So yes, even though KDE-3 is gone from portage, it remains in the hearts and on the hard drives of those who love the way it works, such as yours truly.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moriah wrote:
... Red Hat discontinued free support for RedHat9 with only one month's notice ...


Ouch :!:
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Moriah
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, ouch indeed! I only use redhat now if I have a contractual requirement, such as a crypto project for a government agency I worked on last year, and then it was RHEL5 and SELinux because the customer wanted it that way.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why I don't really like support from corporate distro, because they have the baseball bat and when they want to smash your head, they do it and that's about it.
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Moriah
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not only that, but I have been involved in projects with consulting clients where a hefty fee was paid for support for the product that could have otherwise been had for the downloading, mainly to set the hearts of the execs, laywers, and bean counters at ease, and we still got better support from the free forums and mailing lists than the support we paid dearly for.
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Mike Hunt
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's extraordinary, one would assume the opposite. 8O
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When there is money involve, everything can happen, one of Murphy rules :P
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Moriah
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really, when you thinkabout it like a lawyer instead of a geek. :(

If you pay me for support, I provide a time period in the contract that says when you can ask for help, how many times you can ask, how long after you ask before I will respond, and how long after I respond before I will fix the problem. This is needful so evryone knows what they are getting out of the deal. Since you *PAID* me, I have a fiduciary obligation to live up to my part of the agreement, and you have no right to expect any more than that from me.

Now consider that you call in with a problem -- say your word processor is using the wrong font for italics. I have 1 business day to respond. Sometime before that, I call you back or email you requesting additional details about the problem, like what language are you using? English, Cyrilic, Kata Kana, simplified Chineese, Korean, etc. You give me this information. I have 2 business days to resolve the problem. I have my programmers look into it, and they think they have the answer, but they are now sure if the fix will break something else. So, instead of giving you the best answer they have after 4 hours, they look into it further, not because you would be affected by the possible breakage the fix might cause, but because other customers might. So we test, and we test, and we test. We take all the time we are allowed to keep from giving you and answer that we might have to retract. After all, we are responsible to all those other customers that might be affected by the fix we came up with for you.

This is the same reason that Microsoft seems to take so long to release a bugfix for a security vuln sometimes. They have obligations to many people, not just the one complaining.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With free software, there is no obligation. We do this out of the goodness of our hearts. We have this forum here to help others, but also to help ourselves, as we have more people using this stuff, and they find problems that we would never see. We help each problem on an individual basis. If we really find a bug, such as a kernel bug, or whatever, we post a bug report, and the the kernel hackers look into it more like the paid support guys at commercial companies -- not because they have a fiduciary obligation, but because they want to get it right for everybody before they release a GLSA or some such thing.

But the great thing is these forums usually solve most of the problems without a bug report. Usually (lets face it) it is a operator error, or a misunderstanding of some sort. Imagine the poor people that man the support phones at Microsoft. Most of their calls have got to be noobs without a clue. I could never handle a job like that. I would go nuts! But that goodness somebody handles that stuff, because there is a need to handle it.

We were all noobs at one time, although for me that was so long ago that the term "noob" hadn't been invented yet. :(

I programmed my first computer when I was a junior in high school. The computer was an IBM 1401; the year was 1967. 8)
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