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Moriah
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to the KDE-3 discussion...

I never understood what the purpose of KDE or Gnome was all about (besides bloat). :?

To me, a window manager is like government: it serves a purpose, but it should be as small and simple as possible. It should let you define some menus, posizion windows in x, y, and z (stacking order), map and unmap windows, and manage icons or some way to help you keep track of what windows are unmapped. It is also nice if it allows you to virtualize your desktop, either by selecting which of several virtual desktops you want to work in at the moment, or by allowing you to pan around on a desktop that is larger than your screen.

I use ctwm, an offshoot of twm (itself an offshoot of uwm, which I also used to use) that supports multiple virtual desktops. I currently run 26 virtual desktops on my physical screen. It is fast, tiny, and easy to configure. It stays out of my way most of the time. I have the window decorations as scant as possible: each window has a little tab at the top left corner identifying the program running in that window. That's it, no borders, no handles, nothing else. I can pop up a menu to launch frequently use programs by positioning the mouse over the background and pressing button-1 and dragging to my selection then releasing button-1. I can move a window by putting the mouse anywhere in that window and holding down the ALT key while pressing button-2. I do all window positioning and resizing in a similar fashion using ALT and SHIFT keys and one of the 3 mouse buttons.

What more does anyone ever need? 8O
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Moriah
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to the tuxonice question...

So if tuxonice is plain vanilla that can sleep and wake up, what do I loose compared to gentoo-sources by going to tuxonice?

I use my laptop constantly, and I am on the road a great deal. Sleep and hibernation keep my batteries from dying as quickly. Sleep is better most of the time because I can go into and out of it quickly, but it still uses some battery. Hibernation checkpoints to disk, but with 8 GB of ram, it takes a while to do this, both going into and out of hibernation.

I also plan to use either vmware or Linux KVM to run VM's with other O/S's, so I need to know if tuxonice will support that also.
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Mike Hunt
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Moriah for the nice explanations about free vs commercial support. The way you put it makes a lot of sense.
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Moriah
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. <poem>It makes sense because I've been on both sides of the fence.</poem> :wink:
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, there are seeds a plenty tonight. I've just uploaded .configs for 2.6.27.44, 2.6.31.12, 2.6.32.4, 2.6.30-tuxonice-r6, 2.6.30-tuxonice-r9, 2.6.30-tuxonice-r10, 2.6.31-tuxonice-r9, and 2.6.32-tuxonice-r1 in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. Enjoy!

Blessed be!
Pappy
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KDE-3 is a very usable desktop. While it may be bloated by some definitions, considering the size of the hard drives available on the market today, bloat is inconsequential.

My minimalism is FVWM, the first desktop I ever used under Linux, way back when it was a curiosity more than anything else. I use it on occasions when I'm bored with everything else.

But when it comes to day to day, KDE-3 is it. It gives me the operation I want, and I don't have to tweak and twiddle. While it is obvious I don't mind a little tweaking and twiddling, there are other times I'd just rather not go there. For those times, KDE-3 is my choice.

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P
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Moriah
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the wonderful thing about Linux. It's the "Burger King" operating system: "Have it YOUR way!" :D

If you just want canned soup, its there. If you want to plant your own vegetable garden, grow and harvest the vegetables, and make REALLY home made vegetable soup, you can do that too! :mrgreen:
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d2_racing
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moriah wrote:
That's the wonderful thing about Linux. It's the "Burger King" operating system: "Have it YOUR way!" :D


So, since I use KDE4, then I will order a big fat Whopper :P
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He said, "whopper." he he. he he

Yeah, that was cool.

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Beavis...er Pappy
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Moriah
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And for all you KDE/gnome fans out there, I guess you would make that whopper "extra everything", and "supersize it" as well. :wink:

As my wife is always saying to me, "Do you know how many fat grams that thing has?!?" :?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of supersize, this will be the next box that Pappy produce a seeds : https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-811921-highlight-.html
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only if they ask. hehehe

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fact, it would be great :P
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Mike Hunt
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emerge -e system in like 2 minutes :lol:
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d2_racing
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MAKEOPTS="-j47" and -march=native -pipe :P
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the thought does kind of give one a tickle in that special place we Gentoo geeks have when watching a computer crunching source.

On another topic, I've just added .configs for 2.6.32-gentoo-r2, and 2.6.32-zen-r5 in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. Enjoy!

Blessed be!
Pappy
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I added the .configs for 2.6.32.5 in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. Enjoy!

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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Until further notice, please use the failover server: http://62.3.120.141/~pappy/ There are issues with our internet, and our new modem doesn't allow incoming http traffic. Hope to change that soon.

Blessed be!
Pappy
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A DSL modem that won't let http in won't stop the kernel seeds from coming. I've just uploaded .configs for 2.6.31-gentoo-r10 and 2.6.31-zen11 in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. The former is new today, the latter is a bit late in coming. :oops:

Hopefully when our internet works right, I won't be so distracted.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure that the problem is not your provider instead of your cable modem ?
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, it was definitely the modem. The old one was a Motorola 2100, which died at regular intervals of about every four months. They swapped that P.O.S. out for a Westell 6100 with proprietary firmware, and an always on internal router.

Well, if the modem is doing PPoE for you, the modem's internal router/firewall will not allow http ingress. HOWEVER, if I set the modem up in bridge mode, ie let my Netgear wireless router take care of PPoE, then all the modem does is receive and transmit packets. PPoE duty is done by the Netgear. That means...wait for it...

Yes, the main site is back up and running. Hopefully, the perceived kerchunkieness of this setup will smooth out. It sure will be nice if this fixes our internet woes!

Blessed be!
Pappy
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Element Dave
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:47 am    Post subject: The Seeds of Pappy Reply with quote

Please let me know if this should be posted to a separate thread instead. I don't want to pollute this already long thread with a (potentially) non-germane issue.

I couldn't help but notice that your rationale for many of your choices in the kernel configuration is that they're the "default" kernel values. But if you compare the various the default kernel configurations (at least on x86) from one release to the next, it's pretty clear that these values aren't really defaults at all. As has been mentioned elsewhere, the values happen to be whatever Linus (or perhaps some other developer?) happens to have used for testing on his personal machine. Thus, I would not construe any such options as _recommended defaults_.
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps you won't. I, on the other hand wonder.

Each seed starts with make defconfig. Most of the settings that result are similar, version to version. I would assume the settings that fall out as common are defaults, and make defconfig makes the default .config file. By that logic, the settings from make defconfig are default settings; the settings that come out of the box.

My point has always been, no matter who the source of the script that makes the default configuration, or whose computer is the one that resembles those settings, it's nothing on which to build a stable system.

That is why the kernel seeds exist. And now that I've been going through complete setting analysis, you are sure to see new defaults. But that's a project for another day.

As a note on the web site as a whole, please also keep in mind that it remains a work in progress. Until I am finished with all the initial pages, it's incomplete. Once I get everything written, then it's time to update, as you can rest assured that the kernel will continue to grow and change. At that point, I might be able to add a bit more about my experience, and less about what help has to say.

Blessed be!
Pappy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I'm at it, it's time to say that I just added .configs for 2.6.27.45, 2.6.32.7, and 2.6.32-gentoo-3 in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. Enjoy!

Blessed be!
Pappy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae,

I suppose we all remember the kernel that had a default of PCI support off.
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