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Ormaaj
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks pappy for the hard work on the docs! It has really helped clear up some misleading and overly terse descriptions with no advice. I can't wait to read the upcoming sections to see what else I've been fucking up all these years. :D

pappy sez:
Quote:
<*> Video

This setting implements ACPI extensions for display adapters. This is very important as it allows the display adapter to read the EDID information from the monitor, and to set the video card for maximum resolution. This setting defaults to on. Changing it is not recommended.


kernel sez:
Quote:
This driver implements the ACPI Extensions For Display Adapters for integrated graphics devices on motherboard


Does this mean that all the functionality of this option applies only to gpus integrated to the mobo as in most laptops, or does your EDID note also apply generally to AGP and PCIE cards? The kernel help text could be interpreted as meaning either.
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Ron Olsen
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too would like to thank Pappy for his hard work in setting up and documenting his kernel seeds.

I recently updated my 2.6.31-r6 x86 kernel using Pappy's seed, and the performance of my machine is a lot better. Reading Pappy's comments on various kernel config options has greatly increased my understanding of the kernel.

Thanks again, Pappy!
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ormaaj wrote:
Does this mean that all the functionality of this option applies only to gpus integrated to the mobo as in most laptops, or does your EDID note also apply generally to AGP and PCIE cards? The kernel help text could be interpreted as meaning either.


It covers all GPU's, or should I say the ones I've used (ATI, Intel, nVidia). I know this, because when I hook up the headless web server to my widescreen monitor, it automatically changes resolution to 1680x1050, the max resolution for that monitor, when X is started with the monitor plugged in. That's the oldest video device (an old ATI AGP), that I have. It also works on the GeForce 7300 PCIE, and the Intel GPU on this machine (PCIE laptop).

Blessed be!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are some more pages in the works. One is awaiting proofreading and fact checking. The other is currently being worked on. I am hoping to have at least the kernel explanations done by the end of the month. A page or two of tips and tricks is sure to follow, but one thing at at time.

I am glad that my efforts are gaining appreciation. I'll be even happier if I can ever make money with a book on the topic, or such. But once again, one thing at a time.

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b0nafide
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your work Pappy, I thought I was pretty good at compiling my own kernel, but after reading your guide I recompiled with your recommendations (especially CPU settings) and everything is great on both machines with the new changes. They are both laptops - the hardware will likely never change - so having a kernel that is specifically tweaked for the performance of that hardware is a huge bonus. Thanks again.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're most welcome. I'm learning as I go, which is making this all even better. Just wait until you see the next two pages.

But before then, it's time to say I just added .configs for 2.6.32-tuxonice-r5 in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. Enjoy!

Blessed be!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pappy, what is the diff between Tuxonice and Gentoo-source, beside some optimization of some laptop feature like suspend to disk ?
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Ormaaj
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron Olsen wrote:
I too would like to thank Pappy for his hard work in setting up and documenting his kernel seeds.

I recently updated my 2.6.31-r6 x86 kernel using Pappy's seed, and the performance of my machine is a lot better. Reading Pappy's comments on various kernel config options has greatly increased my understanding of the kernel.

Thanks again, Pappy!
I'm actually not even using pappy's seeds, I use zen-sources from git and a kernel config I've evolved myself over the years through countless hours of <del>refinement</del> <ins>guessing</ins>. The documentation is absolutely invaluable though and has influenced a number of my settings.

In my humble opinion the most daunting barrier to getting Gentoo going on a new system is configuring the kernel. I can do a complete re-install of an existing system in a couple of hours, but a new install takes a week of research on the various busses, protocols, and miscellaneous features of an unfamiliar motherboard, and it is still a lot of guessing. I've scoured the internet for resources and supplemental information about various kernel options. Technical information is plentiful, but very few help to answer questions like: "What considerations are involved? Does this conflict with other options?", "Do I have hardware that supports this or is it for a 1024 chip server?", "What software uses this?", and eventually it all boils down to "Do I want to enable this?".

pappy_mcfae wrote:
I'll be even happier if I can ever make money with a book on the topic, or such.
Where do I preorder? :mrgreen:
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d2_racing wrote:
Pappy, what is the diff between Tuxonice and Gentoo-source, beside some optimization of some laptop feature like suspend to disk ?


Tuxonice is vanilla except for the extended functions in the hibernation area. If you remove that part of the tuxonice kernel, and replace it with what you get from vanilla, you will have a vanilla kernel again.

Gentoo-sources differs from vanilla with the following (2.6.31 vs. 2.6.31-gentoo):

  • Bad Block Relocation Device Target (EXPERIMENTAL)
  • Support for the Framebuffer Console Decorations

That's what you can see. The patches show that they change the following files:
genpatches-2.6.31-1.base.tar.bz2 contains a different read-me, and genpatches-2.6.31-1.extras.tar.bz2 contains both above listed changes, and a patch for alpha machines.

So, the answer is there isn't much difference at all. Technically speaking, you could probably tack the tuxonice to the gentoo sources, and come up with a Franken-kernel of your own.

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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae wrote:
Quote:
I'll be even happier if I can ever make money with a book on the topic, or such.
Where do I preorder? :mrgreen:


I don't know that, yet. I'm still in production on the thing, although, I'm betting I could probably find an interested publisher, especially if some one has already committed to buying a copy. This gives me reason to start shopping for publishers.

Thanks for that.

If you think the stuff already up is good, wait until you see the next two pages. They are amazing, at least to me. I never knew there were so many bloody devices in the world, much less so many device drivers crammed into one kernel. Amazing information.

Blessed be!
Pappy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info Pappy :P
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're most welcome, as always. :)

Blessed be!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A busy day of recording ends with me uploading the .configs for 2.6.32-gentoo-r6 in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. The file system page is almost ready for proofreading, too. Enjoy!

Blessed be!
Pappy
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae wrote:


Tuxonice is vanilla except for the extended functions in the hibernation area. If you remove that part of the tuxonice kernel, and replace it with what you get from vanilla, you will have a vanilla kernel again.


Asking this more for the benefit of the audience than myself, as I don't think the point has been made yet.

As a general rule, do you see any compelling reason to use tuxonice-sources over zen-sources, given that zen-sources includes tuxonice, and is generally more up to date otherwise?

I personally, do not. You get everything tuxonice-sources offers, and more, using zen.

Only in very specific cases where you only get stable performance from older kernels, or older tuxonice patches, could I see a real reason for using tuxonice-sources.
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Moriah
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please see my question on the pappy's seeds laptop thread at https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-6181636.html#6181636 regarding going from gentoo-sources to tuxonice. Maybe I should be looking at zen instead?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering how much of a zen sources fan I am, I'd be prejudiced. That said, not only does zen have tuxonice, but there is a patch set that will harden zen sources. While I have yet to set this up, I can see how someone who wants both speed and hardened security would be well served by such a Franken-kernel.

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Moriah
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So are you saying I should use zen instead of tuxonice for the laptop to get it to hibernate? Do you prefer any particular version, given that I am currently running 2.6.31-gentoo-r6 from gentoo-sources in x86_64 flavor?

If I do a emerge -s, I see:
Code:
*  sys-kernel/zen-sources [ Masked ]
      Latest version available: 9999
      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
      Size of files: 0 kB
      Homepage:      http://zen-kernel.org
      Description:   The Zen Kernel Live Sources
      License:       GPL-2

Since zen is masked, and tuxonice is not, I would tend to prefer tuxonice for a production machine. Also, since it shows version 9999, I gather it is unstable. However, since it shows "Size of files: 0 kB", I gather that I already have all the source files from gentoo-sources and tuxonice, so what do I have to gain by going to zen?
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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zen-sources are ~arch, so you would have to use /etc/portage/package.keywords to unmask. I have been using the .31 zen kernels to good effect. The .32 kernels are fairly ok as well, although they have an updated version of ALSA, which causes issues on one of my sound cards.

As long as things are going well with your gentoo-sources, you could go as high as 2.6.31-zen12, and you would lose nothing as there are, as far as I know, no crossovers from gentoo to zen sources.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just uploaded the .configs for 2.6.32.9 in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. Enjoy!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just uploaded .configs for 2.6.32-gentoo-r7, 2.6.33-gentoo, and 2.6.33 in both x86 and x86_64 flavors. Yes, the .33 kernels are no longer in release candidate status. Let the celebrations begin! Enjoy!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am just building the new 2.6.33 seed and found a contradiction to your explanation at kernel-seeds.org:
Code:

Power management and ACPI options -> ACPI -> Container and Module Devices


is switched on in that config, whereas you advise to switch it off.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, that was a mistake. After almost 24 hours of being awake, those do tend to pop up. I'll probably fix that some time this weekend. Good eyes!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moriah wrote:

Since zen is masked, and tuxonice is not, I would tend to prefer tuxonice for a production machine. Also, since it shows version 9999, I gather it is unstable. However, since it shows "Size of files: 0 kB", I gather that I already have all the source files from gentoo-sources and tuxonice, so what do I have to gain by going to zen?


The live zen sources (9999 builds) have a stable/unstable branch, which is controlled by a USE flag.

Code:

if use stable; then
        EGIT_REPO_URI="git://zen-kernel.org/kernel/zen-stable.git"
else
        EGIT_REPO_URI="git://zen-kernel.org/kernel/zen.git"
fi


The 'stable' use is set by default. On my specific laptop hardware, 2.6.31-gentoo-r6 was an absolute nightmare. I had hard lockups at least once per hour, had to do the dance of pressing and holding the power button to turn it off.

2.6.30-gentoo-r[3-6] were fine. Haven't tried any of the 2.6.32-gentoo-*

Every zen-sources build I've done has been very stable. Right now I'm at 2.6.32-zen7 (latest from 'stable') and it has been bulletproof.

zen is one of those that is ~arch much moreso because of its unofficial nature, and inclusion of patches that aren't in mainline - rather, from what I can tell it being ~arch isn't a result of any functional instability, so much as it is the fact that it's very unofficial.

My systems will only ever see hardened-sources or zen-sources from now on, depending on their purpose (headless systems will be hardened-sources, anything with X will be zen-sources)
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Moriah
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I am running 2.6.31-gentoo-r6 from gentoo-sources, which is the same version as the one you said was a nightmare in zen, so tuxonice it will be.

I have spent the last 2 weeks in Florida with my 88 year old father, who is the geekiest grandpa on record, having 3 computers in the house, both 100baseT and 802.3g wifi running in his home. He did have some system issues with his router. I think it got hit by a power surge that scrogged some settings. I had to push the paper clip in the little reset hole on the back to get it in its right mind, then reconfigre everything.

Since his internet had been down for several months, all his updates were out of date, and some of his anti-virus software had expired. His printer was even out of ink, and his biggest machine was bluescreening due to unknown causes. It still bluescreens more often than not overnight, but seems to be crashing in the Microsoft firewall ipnat.sys code. Googling indicates that there are problems with the HP Solution center that comes with his color ink jet printer/scanner/fax, and that others have had this problem and HP has not fixed it since 2007. Why do people pay for this stuff when you can get good software for free? :-(

Anyway, I am driving back to Kentucky starting tomorow morning. I had no time to try a new kernel on this trip, as we stayed busy driving around visiting other family members, and me fixing his network.

I will report back after I have a chance to try tuxonice and hibernation -- sometime next week, I hope.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moriah wrote:
Well, I am running 2.6.31-gentoo-r6 from gentoo-sources, which is the same version as the one you said was a nightmare in zen, so tuxonice it will be.


Sorry 'bout that, reckon I was unclear (or mistyped, I haven't looked). It was a nightmare under gentoo-sources. Rather, the version you're running (2.6.31-gentoo-r6) caused me numerous hard lockups. The same build of zen did not give me any problems. If it works for you, though, then I would call it "correct" as one can be :)


That lockup situation is why I decided to switch from gentoo-sources and try out zen-sources, and I haven't looked back.
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