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pappy_mcfae
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone else tried 2.6.33? It boots really quickly. I'm running it now, and I have reiserfs, so I guess all that stuff has been tweaked.

Just so everyone knows, I'm dropping the "Blessed be!". I've decided that I need a bit of change, and that's one of the places where the change seems to be coming most.

Cheers,
Pappy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae wrote:
Has anyone else tried 2.6.33? It boots really quickly. I'm running it now, and I have reiserfs, so I guess all that stuff has been tweaked.


havent tried 2.6.33-gentoo-* yet, assuming you're asking about gentoo-sources only since you have 2.6.33 seeds out for it.

I'm about 10 minutes into the latest unstable zen (it says 2.6.33-zen0 but the README.zen shows -zen1?), and well...it's zen. Rock solid, snappy as ever. scratch that, had a hard lockup scp'ing a few large files over, had an ath9k that i was unable to rmmod, back to 2.6.32-zen7. The guys in the zen thread were just saying something about i915 improvements, so I gave it a bash. Been trying out KMS as well recently, and it seems to be improving - probably not sufficient for the perfectionist, but none of the show-stopping stability issues I first encountered with it that prodded me to nuking it, and going vesafb. I'm sure there are still plenty of reasons to avoid it, but heh, I still have my old kernels around just in case.

Still keeping my 2.6.32-zen7 around (both KMS and non-KMS versions) as well an old 2.6.30-gentoo-r4, just in case. I don't like the direction the kernel is going with the expectation of conformity, but I'm falling in line with it all the while keeping older builds handy. Between my trust in both your seeds and the zen folks' looking out for me, I feel pretty confident I'll be ok.

*probably* not the info you were looking for, but who knows!

One of my last few posts before a few weeks' trip to Peru of all places. Then I'll be doing a major rebuild on both my laptop and server, inclusive of a major btrfs rollout :)
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Moriah
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh Pappy, that was "Trademark". Besides, it caused quite a stir a while back, and like they say in Hollywood, "There is no BAD publicity." ;-)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just tested the kernel seed for the recent zen-kernel on ubuntu-linux and found out that it is not working with the uuid way of addressing partitions in ubuntu. giving grub the gentoo-style root=/dev/sda3 works. Is there any option I have to activate to get uuid support?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know it was trademark, but I'm looking to what is the most business like way to deal with people. I can be off-putting at the best of times. Since that isn't what I want here, I'm toning down a bit.

Cheers,
Pappy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, but lets not change "Pappy" to "venerated ancestor" or anything... :wink:
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone is using kernel 2.6.33 newest feature ?

I know that there is the nouveau nvidia driver, the new ext4 module that remove the need to compile ext2 and ext3, but for the rest, is this a good release ?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@moriah, yes, let's hope this is the end of it. I believe it is. :)

@d2_racing. I've got it set up on this machine. It boots incredibly quickly. I'm not using it because, as far as I know, the broadcom-sta driver hasn't bee updated to add .33 support.

Other than that, as I said, it boots really fast. I haven't had a chance to play with it yet, as I've been putting together a slightly faster web server, so I've devoted most of my day to working on that instead of trying out .33 to see how it runs. Time better spent, I'm sure. The mobo arrived today, so I've been installing fresh Gentoo on the new server.

Cheers,
Pappy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice, if you need a iptables script, just let me know :P

Or ask LinuxCrazy :P Because I made one for his server.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, you can be sure I'll be in touch. I've got TWM up and running, and I'm in the process of installing xfce4 for those times when there will be a head on the machine. Once everything is installed, then I let it burn for a day or so, and then put the page on the system, and go live.

Woohoo! It's not a new machine, but it's a lot faster than the old server...and I might be in the mood to overclock. That would make it run even better. I bet it never ran this well with XP.

Cheers,
Pappy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I originally started with the default kernel configuration and kept tweaking it until it seemed to be as good as it could get, but I decided to try this config file and went through the kernel configuration. Many of the things I manually disable on my own were disabled, there were a few things that I did not know could safely be disabled that were disabled (or the guide said I could disable them) and I found one or two things that I had off which according to pappy's website should be enabled (Message Signaled Interrupts) for speed. Some things that I normally turn off without issue were on (such as stuff for routers), but this is a huge improvement over the default configuration.

My only objection is that the High Performance Timer seems to increase CPU utilization (and harms battery life on laptops) and pappy's dfault has it enabled. Aside from that, this is very good. I am recompiling my kernel with the new config file now. :)
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the .configs do assume that you're running on AC, or have a really new battery. That can be adjusted as need be. Once you have things running, you can always tweak and twiddle...just keep a good .config hidden somewhere safe for those oops occasions.

Cheers,
Pappy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the feeling this post got lost in the discussion:

Gh0str1d3r wrote:
I just tested the kernel seed for the recent zen-kernel on ubuntu-linux and found out that it is not working with the uuid way of addressing partitions in ubuntu. giving grub the gentoo-style root=/dev/sda3 works. Is there any option I have to activate to get uuid support?


and a second remark:

wouldn't it be good do distinguish between desktop and laptop seeds? Or summarize the options you should have a look at at a own subpage? That would be really nice :)

Thanks a lot Pappy!
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pappy said:
Quote:
just keep a good .config hidden somewhere safe for those oops occasions.


Good advice. I copy the kernel, initrd (if I am using one), System.map, and .config all to the /boot drive and follow them with the kernel version, such as 2.6.32-gentoo-r6 or whatever, so for that example, I would have these files in my /boot:
Code:

kernel-2.6.32-gentoo-r6
System.map-2.6.32-gentoo-r6
config-2.6.32-gentoo-r6

Since I like to keep old working kernels around for a whiile, as a safety net, I append a tag to remind me why I built that kernel, such as:
Code:

kernel-2.6.32-gentoo-r6_lvm
System.map-2.6.32-gentoo-r6_lvm
config-2.6.32-gentoo-r6_lvm
Or:
Code:

kernel-2.6.32-gentoo-r6_lvm_wifi
System.map-2.6.32-gentoo-r6_lvm_wifi
config-2.6.32-gentoo-r6_lvm_wifi

This last example shows that the addition of wifi support was added to the earlier lvm enabled kernel.

Now I can always go back by selecting the older kernel from the grub menu. :D
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae wrote:
Yes, the .configs do assume that you're running on AC, or have a really new battery. That can be adjusted as need be. Once you have things running, you can always tweak and twiddle...just keep a good .config hidden somewhere safe for those oops occasions.

Cheers,
Pappy


I saved my old configuration as backup.config just so I could go back to it if anything went wrong. I was comparing it to the new configuration via diff out of curiousity and discovered some kernel modules (PPP) that I forgot to enable, which I need for my university's VPN.

By the way, since it is a recent thing, I would like to mention that I like "Blessed Be!" more than I like "Cheers". :P
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Pappy trademark "Blessed Be" has offended the sensibilities of certain people. There was quite a discussion about it somewhere else, not on this thread. I can't remember whether it was somewhere else on the gentoo forums or not. I seem to recall it started over a picture of Pappy playing his musical instrument, which is another talent of his, besides computers and cars.

I think Pappy was trying to minimize controversy around his person, since he is seriously considering writing a book on linux kernel optimization, which I would very much like to read.

The "blessed be" phrase is as much a part of Pappy as my own plug for my own MyWord KJV web based Bible tool is a part of me. :D
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moriah,

Spot on, my friend. Once the page gets to a place where I can push it to publishing houses, I want as little as possible to get in the way of that kind of deal. Also, since I have plans to use the page as a digital resume, I want there to be as little as possible that might offend or turn others off.

There have actually been a couple of scraps over my past exhortation. While what I dealt with at here doesn't hold a candle to the controversy at linuxquestions.org, there was controversy. When it's time to publish my almost thirty year old novel, then I'll be more in tune with being controversial. Somehow, I don't quite think controversy and .configs need to be kissing cousins.

Anyone who researches me will know I'm controversial by nature. And while my going off on the body politic occasionally is far from unbiased or pleasant, I have done my best to make sure none of that follows me here, or follows me to the site pages...especially if there exists the possibility of making a book out of it all.

As far as setting up different .configs for lappys and deskies, thanks, but no thanks. Even though I've been working on perfecting and streamlining the production process, considering the sheer number of .configs that exist on the site now (six megs and growing), doing something like that would be insane on my part.

It would also be outside of the generic nature of the seed. While the tuxonice settings are more tuned to laptops, as that's the realm of tuxonice, that is the only place I make any exceptions.

Also, getting that specialized defeats the as-generic-as-I-can-make-it nature of the seed. Because I'm aiming for the average user, I have to have an average set up. Since the user does have to reconfigure the seed to make it bootable, it is assumed that the user will also consult the how-to and the settings pages when questions arise, or might follow along in the documents as they look through and set up their .config.

Like seeds in nature, a kernel seed is meant to be a starting point. How you nurture that seed is up to you. That's why I am including all the documentation which I'm still currently writing. Not unlike a well trained botanist knows, the more you know about a plant, the better able you are to grow state of the art shrubbery, or whatever plants tickle your fancy.

uuid support:

No, I don't believe you need anything special in the kernel to get uuid support. In make menuconfig, you can use the "/" as help. Search for uuid. If you find nothing, then my assumption is correct.

The last time I had a Debian install running was about three years ago. I recall using a .config from my Gentoo side on the Debian side. I used Debian's kernel compilation script, and everything seemed to work. I didn't use uuid in /etc/fstab, or at least I don't think I did. Like I said, three years ago. Once done, I know the Debian side worked with a bit more stability than with the all-module/initrd standard Debian (and definitely *buntu) kernel .configs.

If someone knows better than I, please don't hesitate to chime in.

Cheers,
Pappy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bah...so childish and annoying that one's personal ramblings might have a negative effect on how they are seen in the business/professional realm.
This is why I'm so careful hiding my identity online. My personal/political/whatever bias has minimal if not zero effect on how I conduct myself in a formal setting, but some people can't see past that. weak.

ANYWAY, concur that UUID's are not a question of "does the kernel support it"

They're just symlinks, that IIRC are created by udev

Code:

 # ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid
total 0
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 Feb 27 23:41 117e2922-e55c-4ccc-9d05-c8da2eb77244 -> ../../mapper/vg0-var
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 Feb 27 23:41 3316a43b-7d23-4567-bed0-b1a44c02f137 -> ../../mapper/vg0-opt
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 Feb 27 23:41 7bf144ee-9e75-4b54-8f81-58f27ed5a4a6 -> ../../sda1
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 Feb 27 23:41 9a7612fa-9c4b-431f-a822-df1fb1e422ff -> ../../sda3
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 Feb 27 23:41 b499bf52-afbf-4208-a0ee-400f21a09069 -> ../../mapper/vg0-usr
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 Feb 27 17:41 c71a0ca8-3021-4c8a-bb7b-b4e290e73a26 -> ../../sda2
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 Feb 27 23:41 d25161a5-50e6-45c0-b506-428a29b0ddfc -> ../../mapper/vg0-tmp
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 Feb 27 23:41 e3e15a3a-f2dd-4a06-9e33-edf855787547 -> ../../mapper/vg0-home


if there's an issue with booting from UUID, might look at using labels. You would then do root=LABEL=somelabel in grub.conf


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pappy_mcfae wrote:
Spot on, my friend. Once the page gets to a place where I can push it to publishing houses, I want as little as possible to get in the way of that kind of deal. Also, since I have plans to use the page as a digital resume, I want there to be as little as possible that might offend or turn others off.

There have actually been a couple of scraps over my past exhortation. While what I dealt with at here doesn't hold a candle to the controversy at linuxquestions.org, there was controversy. When it's time to publish my almost thirty year old novel, then I'll be more in tune with being controversial. Somehow, I don't quite think controversy and .configs need to be kissing cousins.

Anyone who researches me will know I'm controversial by nature. And while my going off on the body politic occasionally is far from unbiased or pleasant, I have done my best to make sure none of that follows me here, or follows me to the site pages...especially if there exists the possibility of making a book out of it all.


Linus Torvalds can be highly offensive at times, but that does not seem to have kept people from wanting to work with him.

pappy_mcfae wrote:
As far as setting up different .configs for lappys and deskies, thanks, but no thanks. Even though I've been working on perfecting and streamlining the production process, considering the sheer number of .configs that exist on the site now (six megs and growing), doing something like that would be insane on my part.


Does anything keep you from simplifying this by just having a single .config for vanilla-sources and then tell everyone else to do make oldconfig with it if they have some other kernel source that has been patched to be gentoo, zen, ck, etcetera? It seems like it would make your life easier.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I've thought of taking the easy way out...many times...oh so many times.

But that sort of defeats the purpose of having a site, updating seeds as new kernel versions are released, having discussion about them, writing, it would seem, the first user-side look at the kernel from a practical what-works-what-doesn't point of view, and so many other things.

Linus is Linus. He can be a total dickweed if he wants. He's more or less earned the privilege. I only know him to be man with a really awesome history, and a love of penguins. Not much else beyond that. If he ever friended me on FB, I might chat him up a bit.

I am Pappy. I haven't been in the game nearly long enough to cast dispersions on him. I only kick myself for not clinging to Linux when I ran into a Slackware version on an Info Magic CD. I still have those old disks.

As to my dropping of "Blessed be", I have been on a long and strange path. While I still love my pagan brothers and sisters very deeply, my own spiritual quest has led me back to bouncing somewhere between agnostic and atheist.

Since such personal things are much better kept in the personal realm, it was my decision to drop what some might see as a deficiency in that area. At this point, I need all the pluses I can muster.

Cheers,
Pappy
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, I still hold onto the right to wish everyone a merry solstice or equinox.

Cheers,
Pappy
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Linus Torvalds can be highly offensive at times, but that does not seem to have kept people from wanting to work with him.


Following the discussion at Linus' blog, I guess Linus is just not familiar with the accounts of demons (daemons -- old spelling) in the Bible. The part about supporting the person after the demons are cast out does not jibe well with my KJV, but according to the Bible, demons are just angels that messed up.

Seems that before God (the God of the Bible) created man, he created the angels. The head musician was Lucifer. He got a bad case of the "big head" because he felt that the worship of God was really due to his great music and leading the choir and other musicians. He decided he did not need God anymore, and that he should be the top dog. So there was an angelic rebellion in heaven. The coup failed, and God exhiled Lucifer and his followers from heaven. These followers made up exactly 1/3 of all the angels. That left 2/3's of the angels in heaven and 1/3 to cause trouble on earth. These are the demons that inhabit people's spirits and control them. These are the demons the bible talks about "casting out".

So Linus' remark about "What is wrong with people?" is answered with the statement that they are believers of the Bible. Linus thinks this is berserk. He is entitled to his opinion. That has no bearing on whether his opinion is correct or not. Likewise, the people eating lunch next to him are entitled to thier opinion. At least it is nice to know where they got that opinion from. Where did Linus get his from?

BTW Leslie Lamport, of LaTeX fame, wrote a paper back in 1982 titled "The Byzantine Generals Problem" where he explored the reliability of messages passing thru an unreliable network. It turns out that according to the results he presents, as long as the "good guys" have two thirds of the troops on their side, plus one more individual, then the message can always be received reliably. It is a flip-out that this is exactly the number God kept for himself when he exhiled the followers of Lucifer. He kept 2/3 of the angels, plus himself, exactly satisfying Leslie Lamport's condition. See the paper at:

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/lamport/pubs/byz.pdf

Does Linus have any such convincing mathematical evidence that he might be right? :wink:
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everybody's ideas about satan and the whole cast out of heaven thing comes from John Milton anyway, it's not like it's factual or anything :P
The bible doesn't talk about hell as fiery or anything like that either, just an interesting bit of info not looking for debate :P

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Some suggestions pappy:
remove some of the un-needed things (theres a few idk exactly which ones) - basically make them lighter as a whole
make the seeds modular instead of having everything built in, modules are good except for root FS if you dont want an initrd :D
build with frame pointers, atleast for x86_64 but probably for x86 too

idk i thought i had some others but i dont remember them
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will agree with the frame pointers. I did not realize they were not part of the seed. They make debugging much easier.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheater1034 wrote:

build with frame pointers, atleast for x86_64 but probably for x86 too


I know that's useful for helping you kernel dev folk debug things.
Something about stack traces being more useful - I've only ever done a small bit of debugging anything, and on Windows only; I remember the difference when I had symbols loaded, being able to see undecorated function names. Anyway...

I'm going to change mine since I use zen.git and want to give feedback if/when it's helpful, but I want to make sure - is this the only one to tick?

Code:

Symbol: FRAME_POINTER [=n]
  │ Prompt: Compile the kernel with frame pointers


Because these are all the ones i find searching for "pointer"

Code:

Symbol: SCHED_OMIT_FRAME_POINTER [=y]
Symbol: ARCH_WANT_FRAME_POINTERS [=y]
Symbol: ILLEGAL_POINTER_VALUE [=0xdead000000000000]
Symbol: GENERIC_BUG_RELATIVE_POINTERS [=y]
Symbol: FRAME_POINTER [=n]
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